Mini 462: Just another game of Mafia... over

[Nekka-Lucifer]

Oh, but

Vote: Jenter Brolincani

for bringing Khel out to claim... He MUST have seen that he will only claim at -2 and that he is just trying to see what role he is.

[Jenter Brolincani]

The whole 'breadcrumb, ooh, can you find it?' Where's Wally mentality was stupid. Better everyone knows than we don't know how many scum and how many town know.

What do you mean by a me-only filter?

[Khelvaster]

I mean filter Khelv. Also, I think everyone knows who I am now. What I didn't want was to be brought to lynch -1 and then hammered by an opportune scum.

[Jenter Brolincani]

No, sorry, can't find it.

I'll

unvote

anyway. Seriously, this game is confusing me really badly. Sorry I'm being so little use, but it's a steep learning curve for me.

[Tarhalindur]

No, sorry, can't find it.

I'll

unvote

anyway. Seriously, this game is confusing me really badly. Sorry I'm being so little use, but it's a steep learning curve for me.

Khelvaster's post 298 makes it very clear that he's claiming cop.

I'm a little mistrustful of the cop claim (it's not too hard for a mafioso to claim cop and start claiming innocent results on players who are known to be pro-town - after all, if they get called out on it, they can bus a scumbuddy...), but the fact remains that Khelvaster is, for the time being, an uncounterclaimed cop, and we shouldn't lynch an uncounterclaimed cop on Day 1.

Unvote

I would vote Panzerjager now, but he's got 4 votes already, two of which are from players who are likely to be replaced (roland's random vote and elias's vote from several pages back). FAKEVOTE: Panzerjager pending replacements.

I'll look at getting up a PBPA on Panzerjager later tonight.

[AlSleet]

Unvote: Khelvaster

In light of his uncountered claim.

[mnowax]

Rishi replaces Roland

Anyone else need a prod or replace. I am not replacing Elias, due to the abilty for limited activity.

vote count in the morning EDT.

[Rishi]

Hey folks, glad to be in the game. Need a little bit of time to get caught up. In case the vote from rolandofthewhite is still active, I will go ahead and

Unvote: Panzerjager

until I know what is going on.

[Rishi]

Did a quick read through everything and I'm not entirely sure who to believe.

I'll do a more careful analysis later. Hopefully tomorrow.

[Nekka-Lucifer]

No, sorry, can't find it.

I'll

unvote

anyway. Seriously, this game is confusing me really badly. Sorry I'm being so little use, but it's a steep learning curve for me.

Khelvaster's post 298 makes it very clear that he's claiming cop.

I'm a little mistrustful of the cop claim (it's not too hard for a mafioso to claim cop and start claiming innocent results on players who are known to be pro-town - after all, if they get called out on it, they can bus a scumbuddy...), but the fact remains that Khelvaster is, for the time being, an uncounterclaimed cop, and we shouldn't lynch an uncounterclaimed cop on Day 1.

Unvote

Well done for blantently telling everyone that it's a cop claim... Due to his post records the first post isn't included because I think it's a /confirm post

Not everyone would have found it, making scum finding it less! And you just happened to tell everyone after I made a DISCREET chat about it to Khel while you told everyone...

I would vote Panzerjager now, but he's got 4 votes already, two of which are from players who are likely to be replaced (roland's random vote and elias's vote from several pages back). FAKEVOTE: Panzerjager pending replacements.

I'll look at getting up a PBPA on Panzerjager later tonight.

[Nekka-Lucifer]

No, sorry, can't find it.

I'll

unvote

anyway. Seriously, this game is confusing me really badly. Sorry I'm being so little use, but it's a steep learning curve for me.

Khelvaster's post 298 makes it very clear that he's claiming cop.

I'm a little mistrustful of the cop claim (it's not too hard for a mafioso to claim cop and start claiming innocent results on players who are known to be pro-town - after all, if they get called out on it, they can bus a scumbuddy...), but the fact remains that Khelvaster is, for the time being, an uncounterclaimed cop, and we shouldn't lynch an uncounterclaimed cop on Day 1.

Unvote

I'll look at getting up a PBPA on Panzerjager later tonight.

Well done for blantently telling everyone that it's a cop claim... Due to his post records the first post isn't included because I think it's a /confirm post

Not everyone would have found it, making scum finding it less! And you just happened to tell everyone after I made a DISCREET chat about it to Khel while you told everyone...

I would vote Panzerjager now, but he's got 4 votes already, two of which are from players who are likely to be replaced (roland's random vote and elias's vote from several pages back). FAKEVOTE: Panzerjager pending replacements.

EBWOP: I put it in the wrong bit due to a forward/back situation (Forward/back throughout the website till I came back to this)

[Khelvaster]

Well done for blantently telling everyone that it's a cop claim... Due to his post records the first post isn't included because I think it's a /confirm post

Not everyone would have found it, making scum finding it less! And you just happened to tell everyone after I made a DISCREET chat about it to Khel while you told everyone...

ummmm No. He didn't reveal it to everyone. I did. He just simplified what I said (first letter of each last word of each sentence of post 23 when looking at my posts only.) If he were a scum, he could have waited to tell his buddies at night when looking for an NK. Now he just alerted the doctor as to who I was if, somehow, the doctor failed to see that small post of mine explaining how to find my crumb. If anything, this confirms tar as town, not scum.

[PJ.]

Bullshit, Khelv. I'm cop. I am on the Falcone, he is full of shit and put it there cause he was in trouble bandwagon.

[Khelvaster]

I love the funky counterclaim. Panzer, I did some subtle crumbing, you didn't do any. I learned to crumb because my first game, Tapioca mafia, I got lynched because I claimed cop and then it turned out the real cop had done a crumb. I learned from my first game, so I went ahead and crumb'd on this game. You, on the other hand, did none of that.

Panzer is today's lynch. My PM didn't hint at any sanity issues, and I doubt anyway whether there would be on nonsane and one sane cop in a 12-man game. Before we let Panzer hammer himself, I strongly suggest that we determine Hand Banana's NK, if anyone should be NK'd. It's time to start analyzing who Panzer has been interacting with.

[PJ.]

Yes I did. I responded to HB's claim to vigging me with an "I Dare you" knowing he would be fucked in the butt if he shot me. I have also actually been trying to hunt scum, unlike you who has done nothing but hope on bandwagons and play like the scum you are. Crumbing does not clear you especially when you claim 160 post or so into the game. Anyone can spell cop in a d post and then claim "I'm the really cop because I crumbed." The fact that you have experienced someone who crumbed as the real cop gives me more of a feel you crumbed because you were in trouble then if you weren't. You are scum.

[Khelvaster]

I suggest we both sit back and let everyone else post. If we keep talking without any 3rd party input, it would most likely turn into a really nasty fight, just as I am in another game I'm currently in.

[Jenter Brolincani]

Soo...

I'm vaguely more inclined to beileve pan, but really no idea. I am, however, quite inclined not to make ANY of the claims today's lynch.

Nekka is looking quite odd.

I put forth these two quotes as an example;

For Khel:- Why are you telling us to seek it? If you were near to lynch/in trouble, you wouldn't say... I BREADCRUMBED, GO FIND IT... That would probably be a wild goose chase, and breadcrumbs are for future REFERANCE where you can explain it, or people can find them and say something else to get off your back as they feel you are a power role but don't want to out you.

So, either give up telling us the breadcrumbs and wait till you're nearer lynch, OR come right out and say it.

Well done for blantently telling everyone that it's a cop claim... Due to his post records the first post isn't included because I think it's a /confirm post

Not everyone would have found it, making scum finding it less! And you just happened to tell everyone after I made a DISCREET chat about it to Khel while you told everyone...

This seems somewhat illogical, not necessarily scummy, just rather odd...

[Jenter Brolincani]

My thoughts so far...

Khelv
Looks odd, has been playing rather bandwagonishly, and his claim just got countered, but a 'better safe than sorry' policy may be best here...

Pan
VERY agressive, and now seems quite ready to be allies with HB against khelv where previously he ws pushing for an HB lynch on the grounds that he was an SK.

Nekka
Doesn't look too bad, but a few logic glitches...

Falcone
Seems very slick, and posts content a lot, and seems to be gliding through very smoothly - Fal, can I have a link to any other games, as I want to look at your playstyle more.

HB
Uncountered power role, so not a lynch for today.

Tar
Don't look too bad, waiting on the PBPA of Pan still.

Al
Hasn't posted much, would like to see more content here.

[hand banana]

oh my.. in light of counter claim..

unvote: panzer

for now.
breadcrumbing does not clear any one of them at all.
i will need one more re-read now to place my vote.

[Rishi]

My thoughts on the players so far:

Falcone – Very articulate with a smart-looking avatar, which automatically makes me believe him. But, seriously, I think one reason I tend to believe he is pro-town is that he keeps criticizing people for prematurely role-claiming. If he was Mafia, I would think he would be pushing people to role-claim more.

Khelvaster – I don’t know if I believe his claim or not. He does seem to be jumping on a lot of bandwagons. I looked over his posts and did not see him drop any other breadcrumbs that I found. But, I wonder if he did it subtly so he could save himself later if need be. Even if someone claimed cop first, he could counter-claim that he, in fact, claimed cop first. Also, for trying to be “subtle,” he seemed awfully insistent that we find his clue.

Elias_the_thief – Argued against the lynching of a hand banana after suspecting he was a vigilante. Seems pro-town to me.

hand banana – It’s hard to trust this guy. He says that it’s his style to jump on bandwagons. And then he claims really early. We are, of course, assuming that the mod didn’t give him vigilante as a safe claim. A little fishy to me.

~N9V~ – Barely ever posts. And when he does, it’s so short. It’s hard to get a read on him at all.

Panzerjager – If there aren’t two cops in the game, then either Panzerjager or Khelvaster is lying. My tendency is to believe Panzerjager.

AlSleet – He is steering people away from those who claimed so far and has said he is looking for Mafia. I don’t think he’s done anything suspicious yet.

Nekka-Lucifer – It feels like he is talking but there isn’t much content in his posts. Still, he’s reluctant to vote and is not looking for a quicklynch. I think he’s okay for now.

ac1983fan – Two little posts and that’s it. I got nothing.

Jenter Brolincani – He keeps saying he is confused. I think he’s actually confused. Maybe a scum or not.

Tarhalindur – I don’t like the lurker-hunting, but he tends to find the same people suspicious as I do. I believe him.

Finger of suspicion: Khelvaster

[hand banana]

i guess my avatar is not really smart looking.

It’s hard to trust this guy. He says that it’s his style to jump on bandwagons. And then he claims really early. We are, of course, assuming that the mod didn’t give him vigilante as a safe claim. A little fishy to me.

what do you mean with "safe claim"? something like "hand banana, you're mafia, but you can safely claim following power- roles: ....." mods really do this here?
so.. i changed my mind about people i find scummy a lot, so i would like you guys not to rush lynch yet, because if it was up to me, i would lynch panzer a couple of pages ago, and i would *maybe* make a terrible mistake.
downside for this is: the longer this day lasts, we risk more power-roles exposed. and i guess we only have doc left. and he is the most important.
if a real doc sees fake doc claim, he should NOT counterclaim. this is very important. only if he's just about to be lynched.

[hand banana]

I am, however, quite inclined not to make ANY of the claims today's lynch.

i guess you're right.
when each one of them gives us the details of investigation, we will have more info, and we can make more informed decission. and i think it's better to let possible mafia escape for just one day, then to lynch a possible cop.

[Khelvaster]

Well, that's enough opinions for me to feel confidant about posting my case against Panzer. This should be enough to convince you all that I am the real cop and Panzer's counterclaim is fake.

His strategy from the beginning of the game has been to go after HB, who presented himself as the easiest target through his newb claim. Despite this, Panzer has kept on hammering. Even after HB claimed vig, Panzer attacked him, automatically jumping to the conclusion that HB was actually an SK. He also has accused Falcone of things at times, but always the accusations returned to HB.

Here is a compliation of highly shady, disreputable, and outright scummy quotes from Panzer. Judge him for yourselves.

First off...more certain then Hand Banana is vig. On top of that if he is gonna go around having power roles claim and such I'd rather have the vig lynched, because that is a terrible strategy.

HANDBANANA was the one who suggested he name people. I said mass claim because I figured you'd get the sarcasm because I was going on about how terrible the idea was. I think the claim is bullshit, and uncounterclaimed or not, it doesn't matter. Not every town has a vig especially in Normal mini's. Did you miss the part where I said "I am 100% AGAINST this strategy." I also said if he wants to go around and out power roles. I'd rather have him lynched because Cop/Doc are far more important then vig. Winning with out a vig is easy; winning without a cop or doc is far harder.

Yes, so let's lynch the vig at every chance we get.

EDWOP: FoS: Tarhilindur for actually reading my post and then saying that I am confirmed scum.

And persecute people for their opinions, Mr McCarthy. Stop with the OMGUS

How are we supposed to be certain that you are actually a vig and not a mafia goon that is role fishing?

Better safe than sorry--trust roleclaims unless there are counterclaims.

Well why would a protown player claim -5 from lynch

It's his first game, and he still is unchallenged

I'm still not a fan of when he claimed, his thinking, his FoS me for being critical of his thinking, or his claim. If he wanted to come out and claim why did he wait so long. He seemed he was unsure and decided to gambit thinking his claim would be accepted and no one would give him questions, or he really did want to come out deceided to try to play it safe got flak and then said screw it i'll claim halfway through making it awkward. Either way I am getting very bad vibes from it, and am wishing he had a name to drop rather then that crap about no finding anyone suspicious enough to say he was gonna kill them. His little idea about saying I'll shoot them if they don't claim realy rubs me the wrong way. For now, I'm gonna risk being wrong about his role and Vote:HandBanana

Or you could wait until tomorrow to see if he proves himself vig tonight. Your inability to look at alternatives gives you away. You hardly ever will see pro-town players trying to lynch claimed vigs day 1.

Ebwop: I thought of somethings after I dared you. Anyway this is an example of what others were saying were bad about your strategy. You outting pro-town players because you are not familiar enough with Mafiascum or Internet Mafia and don't possess amazing scum hunting ability. I will not be claiming until we get close to a non-handbanana lynch or am being pressurized.

Absolutely meaningless to dare someone to NK you. There is no way you would want that unless you are a jester-style guy, and in a minigame I doubt there would be a jester. Major scumtell in this post IMO. And also notice he is still clamoring to get us to BW on HB.

Supported Nekka's view? I never supported anything. I have brought plenty to the table against you, none of which that you have addressed. If anything it is Nekka who is supporting my views. I think you are SK. And Khelvaster, two kills does not mean shit if he is an SK. And I know we shouldn't go SK hunting but when he falls into your lap it is hard to say oh let's have him kill some people first. No, kill him.

So, why are you assuming he's an SK when he claimed vig? That is something to think about after a few days, not something to assume immediately. Also, don't you dare say you didn't really think he was an SK.

Khelvaster pay attention. I'm the one attacking Banana, the SK.

Unvote, Vote:Khelvaster

I have a stack of reasons but between not paying attention and being a hypocrite I can stick my vote on him comfortably without having to put all my reasons out there yet.

Not mentioning reasons when you vote is not a very pro-town thing to do.

He is SK. Look at the way he is playing. He isn't listening to the town but claimed vig and that he was all for the town. Now he is selfish and on a powertrip, which is lynchable when it's a vig cause he becomes a protown Serial Killer. What was the motive behind claiming vig so quick? He took a shot and is uncounterclaimed which totally cleared him in several people eyes, regardless of what he has said. On top of this he wants to kill me who has been probably the most active at trying to catch scum, among other things. If he is a vig, he is a detriment and should be dealt with. If he is an SK, he is again a detriment and should be dealt with.

He wants to kill you because you are scum. You also voted for me, so why were you continuing to pursue the claimed vig? It just doesn't make sense, and neither does assuming he is SK in the first place. That just seems like a weakness you felt you could exploit in HB's claim. There is no substance behind your argument--it's just your personal opinion that he is SK.

Wait, If he is scum wouldn't that clear me too? I was the second on the wagon and the one who drew attention to him with the lurker hunting comment.

Blatant WIFOM

HandBanana, I'm sure because of how many games I have played and my experiance with these situations. When people act like this I become pretty sure they are scum because of the percentage of time a person that does this is scum and the motivation behind the action. What reason does he have to claim I'm a power role but I bread crumbed. Guess my role. The only reason is either we nod like stupid townies and say ok and no one counterclaims because there is nothing to counterclaim. Or we pick up on the so called breadcrumbing figure out his role, someone counterclaims and we lynch khelv and have 2 outted powerroles. On top of those two options even if he claimed full either you or him are gonna die because there is no possible fucking way we have 2 docs. So why play all the games? He is probably gonna get lynched for claiming terribly(btw the timing was bad as well) or NKed for being a pwer role. I seriously doubt he is a power role, and fake claiming a power role is scummy.

And then you go ahead and do just that. It's almost like you were baiting me to claim...

[Nekka-Lucifer]

Ahh, well I didn't think of the doc protection part... I guess I can let you off, but it is kinda telling people that he claims cop, and that includes mafia. I guess I have to remember this for future games.

For now

Unvote

I also want to remind everyone that HB is not a confirmed vig. I'm also gonna do some in depth read through of what vigs do and stategies they can implement.

Also, apologies for English skills so far. Personally when I skim through my posts, I can't see many errors but I guess I can't put that flaw down to anything on my character except mabye I can be clumsy? I have no idea.

Oh, and remind me again what Roland looked like before he was replaced. Did he act scummy or any of the allsorts?

[hand banana]

khelv has a point there... but...
one thing just crossed my mind:

say panzer is scum.
i guess, after khel claimed, he felt that most likely he is the one who's getting lynched.
so he needs to claim, either to save himself or to expose a power role.

i guess that there is no point in claiming cop.
if i was him (in case he is mafia), i would claim doc. it's win-win situation. either he survives or exposes doc sacrificing himself. it doesn't make sense to claim cop, if he's not cop.
but, i guess this is wifom..
and maybe he just felt he has chance of eliminating the real cop (if khelv is real cop)

i really don't know, and i will probably not vote for either one of them today. better safe than sorry. i need investigations details from both of them.