Mini 462: Just another game of Mafia... over

[~N9V~]

Hmm starnge indded. That there would be two setsof Masons then? Either that, or Jenter and Rishi are scum partners. Because I am also a Mason, and my partner, who will be left unnannounced, is also amason (Well look at that ) Two, sets of Masons is really, really unlikely.

Vote Rishi MAJOR FoS Jemter

If my partner wishs to claim, so be it, but I will not claim for him.

[~N9V~]

EBWOP:

Unvote, Vote Rishi

[hand banana]

wow, what???

we now have 2 claimed cops, and 4 claimed masons?
haha

are you guys kidding me..
when i saw the title "Just another game of Mafia..." i expected just the opposite, but this..... omg.

can there be 2 sets of masons??


if we have so much power roles, then mafia has roleblockers, godfathers and whatnot. but since i will publicly say who i'm going to vig, if i get roleblocked, we'll have a target for lynch the next day (unless mafia blocks me even if i want to kill townie, so that we use our lynch on him the next day, depriving the town of one lynch.. bah.. it's all wifom, and it's all f-ed up).

ok.. i am against the lynch of claimed cops.
i am for lynch of one of the claimed masons. i will 99% not use NK tonight.

--
i think that first masons that claimed are scum. i think their reasoning was: since there are so many power roles, there are no masons, and we should breadcrumb/claim it. but they were wrong..

this scenario is much more likely then 2 mafia guys juts exposing themselves counterclaiming the real masons.
makes no sense to me.
so in my eyes jenter and rishi are clear.

nekka and alsleet are either scum (which is more probable) or other pair of masons (less probable).
-------
and i will vote for either one of them. but i will not vig the other on the first night because they can be masons. if one of them turns scum, i'll vig the other on the next day.

--

one more thing: can there be a 2 pairs of masons but both pairs consisting of one townie and one scum? that would be very bad for us.

[hand banana]

now nv9 claims mason?


ok, so we def. have pairs of masons that consist of

one townie + one scum!

this is not bad at all, as i thought, but very good.

every town player now knows that his mason partner is actually scum.
only thing is to determine which one is what.

[hand banana]

so:

vote: Jenter Brolincani

because i think rishi's reaction to the first claim is sincere.. and he is a townie mason.
the same goes for ~N9V~.
~N9V~ - expose your partner, cause i think he's scum.

alsleet and nekka - i don't know who is what.

[Jenter Brolincani]

I don't think we necessarily have scum-town pairs, it may be that one-two pairs are real and one fake, but N9V, you HAVE to out your partner now. We then have just 3 unclaimed players who are most likely all confused town, one masonpair of scum + one of the cop claims.

This makes some sort of sense;
Cop
Mason-Mason
Mason-Mason
Vig/SK
Scum-Scum
Powerscum (possibly scumcop or godfather)
3 confurzled town

[Rishi]

Jenter Brolincani – He keeps saying he is confused. I think he’s actually confused. Maybe a scum or not.

Back on Page 13, I dropped this breadcrumb if you look at the last sentence. So it shows that Jenter Brolincani and I are linked. I don't think I was told whether or not he was "innocent," just that he was my mason partner.

5 masons? Some might be scum and others not? I am very, very confused. This means there might be two cops as well.

This setup is seriously messed up.

[hand banana]

i have a new strategy.

we have 3 pairs of masons (maybe even 4, we'll see about that).

there is no doubt in my mind that every pair consists of one townie + one scum.

so there we have:

1st pair: nekka and alsleet
i'm not sure
50%-50%

2nd pair: rishi and jenter
i'm pretty sure
5%-95%

3rd pair: N9V and XXX
also, pretty sure NV is town
5% - 95%

and my plan is: we lynch jester, and i Night Kill NV's partner.
ok with that?

and panzer khelv situation will be resolved when we get theris investigations.
i think town wins easily in this game.

[PJ.]

Well, I know I was against this and am ALWAYS against this, but in light of things, I have a good idea. Mass claim. It'll help the town at this point.

Note: I will be complaining about the set up after the game.

[hand banana]

I am very, very confused. This means there might be two cops as well.

no, that means that your partner is scum, if you're not.

[hand banana]

and yes, of course, cop investigates either nekka or alsleet. both cops. whatever.

[PJ.]

Don't direct the cop.

[Khelvaster]

Don't direct the cop.

Very nice slip-up, Panzer. Any reason why a real cop wouldn't have said, "Don't direct me?"


Anyway, what with all these double-claiming masons floating around, I believe the only good thing to do is

Vote: Jenter

I already have suspicions on him...the counterclaimed mason claim confirms my suspicions.

[hand banana]

double-claiming masons

triple claiming.
re-read last pages. i voted jenter because i think his mason partner is townie.
they are all indeed masons.

[Elias_the_thief]

I dont feel like waiting for N9V. I've returned, and I am his mason partner. My PM says nothing about his innocence/guilt however.

[mnowax]

Well, I know I was against this and am ALWAYS against this, but in light of things, I have a good idea. Mass claim. It'll help the town at this point.

Note: I will be complaining about the set up after the game.

Oh you will huh?

[Khelvaster]

i have a new strategy.

we have 3 pairs of masons (maybe even 4, we'll see about that).

there is no doubt in my mind that every pair consists of one townie + one scum.

so there we have:

1st pair: nekka and alsleet
i'm not sure
50%-50%

2nd pair: rishi and jenter
i'm pretty sure
5%-95%

3rd pair: N9V and XXX
also, pretty sure NV is town
5% - 95%

and my plan is: we lynch jester, and i Night Kill NV's partner.
ok with that?

and panzer khelv situation will be resolved when we get theris investigations.
i think town wins easily in this game.

Whoa there...this implies that there are four scum. Is that possible in a minigame? I think you should seriously reconsider your theory that there are scum-town links in every case.

[hand banana]

there is.


and it's possible that there are 4 scum if there are vig, cop, doc?, masons etc..
and it's also possible that there are 3 scum and both you and panzer are cops, but with sanity issues.

[hand banana]

I dont feel like waiting for N9V. I've returned, and I am his mason partner. My PM says nothing about his innocence/guilt however.

what do you think, about my theory?
either him or you gotta be scum?

[Tarhalindur]

I'll give some more stuff later. For now, I just want to bring two things up from my post 152.

I almost want to lynch Hand Banana...I feel unsafe with him as our vig. He isn't scummy, but the way he's acting makes me feel really bad about his judgement to hit scum instead of townies at night. He apparently read through Tapioca mafia...in that game, the vig nailed a townie night 1 and a doc night 2. Despite this, we could just tell him not to kill anyone. That would weaken him down to a townie, but it would be better IMO than losing a townie.

This was said in response to HB having said he felt confidant in his own scumhunting abilities. Notice how I conclude that it would be better for him not to kill at all than for us to lynch him. Of course, using him as another lynch is the best option. I never actually advocated lynching him. That's why I said almost.

Khelvaster, would the following statement...

"IMO, hand banana should allow himself to be used as a second lynch, or at least agree not to fire. If he refuses, I'd consider lynching him even though he is an uncounterclaimed vig, since I don't trust his scumhunting abilities and his Azwolging behavior could be disasterous for the town."

...be a reasonable paraphrase of what you were trying to say in Post 152?

That is exactly the point I was trying to convey, yes. I said it in a somewhat less diplomatic tone, because I believed HB to have already stated his desire to be independant.

I find it rather interesting that you say that's "exactly the point you were trying to convey". See, when I originally wrote that paraphrase I wasn't actually trying to paraphrase your post 152. Instead, I was trying to paraphrase my own posts 191, 196, and 200:

Hand banana's play has become so strange that the only reason I'm not voting him is because he's an uncounterclaimed vig. He seems dead-set to enact a plan that is, in my opinion, very anti-town (especially since it's likely to out most or all of our power roles), ignoring the town's wishes in the process (for future reference, it is my opinion that there are probably 1-2 scum hiding in the group of less-than-active players), and he's OMGUS'ing anyone who speaks out against his plan to boot.

IMO, hand banana is either lying scum or a vig who is playing *very* poorly (and hand banana is right that a poorly played vig can be a liability to the town). I'm not sure, however, if the benefit of taking out a probable liability to the town is worth the risk of potentially losing our vig on Day 1.

...Here's a plan for you - we, as a town decide whether or not we should vig someone tonight, and if so who. Once night comes around, you carry out the town's wishes by vigging whoever the town decided to kill (if anyone).

I've got a question that might help us decide where to go from here.

At this point, my opinion is that if hand banana is, in fact the vig, then he is effectively a forced/overeager vig (i.e, a vig that has to fire every night), especially since IMO revealing power roles is almost as bad as killing them off. From what I've seen in past games, forced vigs tend to be a liability to the town - they don't have the option of just not firing, so they often wind up shooting at vaguely scummy players who turn out to be power roles.

My question for everyone is, is it in the best interests of the town to lynch a claimed forced vig on Day 1, given that a forced vig is a town power role that is known to backfire horribly on the town?

At the time I posted my post 200, I had not seen hand banana's post 197 (where he finally agreed to a course of action that would neutralize any threat he posed for the time being). As such, my post 200 followed up on my logic in post 191 - to paraphrase, "if he refuses, I'd consider lynching him even though he is an uncounterclaimed vig, since I don't trust his scumhunting abilities and his Azwolging behavior could be disasterous for the town". From what I saw hand banana was still absolutely committed to a plan of action that would commit him to killing or outing a power role each night (in other words, while hand banana wasn't actually claiming to be a forced vig he was pursuing a course of action that would, IMO, effectively make him a forced vig), and as such I was starting to consider whether hand banana's scumminess on Page 5 and his insistence that we use his fatally flawed plan outweighed his status as an uncounterclaimed vig.

Now, let's take a look at your posts 212 and 213:

Vote: Tarhalindur

Tar is the only person I've seen who is continuously trying to take down a claimed, unchallenged vig. That is not good in my book.

Tar is also using an argument for lynch that is definitely a scumtell. He is saying the claimed vig is an inexperienced forced vig, and therefore we should lynch him. Tar has lain low most of the game--he now reared his ugly head to try and get a quick lynch.

Setting aside the obvious problems with this post (I wasn't even arguing for a lynch, let alone a quick lynch - considering a lynch, yes, but not actually arguing for it), I find this post, if not a direct contradiction of Khelvaster's post 152, then at least very hypocritical in light of his 152, seeing as Khelvaster's attacking me for using the exact same train of thought that he followed in his own 152.

Then, of course, there is post 182:

I'll say preemptively to Nekka and his inevitable OMGUS argument: don't give me any crap about this being a WIFOM accusation. No sane townie would go out of their way to try and lynch a vig. Instead, the townie would want to wait until d2 to see what comes of the vig's claim.

Zero tolerance is the only way to go for trying to lynch unchallenged, claimed pro-town power roles day 1.

So, let's see - in post 152, you admit that you were considering lynching hand banana if he tried to go throught with his plan, yet in post 182 you seem to be saying that we can't even consider lynching an uncounterclaimed power role on Day 1? Moreover, you attack me in post 212 (claiming that I'm continuously trying to take down an uncounterclaimed vig) for following the same logic that you yourself followed in Post 152? Those look like contradictions to me.

Khelvaster, if you can explain to me how these posts are consistent in your eyes, I would be glad to hear it.

Anyway, I am seeing something awkward about Panzer's posts. I don't know if it's just paranoia, so for now

IGMEOY

, Panzer. I'll need to reread posts to find something substantial.

Check out how I suspected Panzer on post 152...He's been acting scummy for a while.

I find it interesting how eager you are to point out that you've been looking at Panzerjager for some time, and how eager you are to (rightfully) point out that Panzer has been acting scummy for a while. After all, just because Panzer's actions have been scummy doesn't mean that your action's aren't...

This means I have been acting in a fairly pro-town way, and I didn't jump on any bandwagons, unlike Panzer.

And on the subject of Jenter, I already said that I was posting that for the record, should I get lynched. I don't know how many of you guys had noticed it. I did not intend for this to be a topic of discussion atm.

I don't agree with you that you've been acting in a pro-town way. Indeed, given the contradictions I'm seeing in your posts and the breadcrumb hunt you led us on, I think that you're probably scum, and Panzer is probably the real cop.

At this point, if I had to vote for one of our claimed cops, I would vote for Khelvaster.

Pre-post Edit: It looks like the situation has blown up while I was typing this. I'll look things over and give my opinion on our 4 claimed masons ASAP.

[Khelvaster]

there is.


and it's possible that there are 4 scum if there are vig, cop, doc?, masons etc..
and it's also possible that there are 3 scum and both you and panzer are cops, but with sanity issues.

I think that once we get a lynch, everything will be much easier. What we need to do now is first decide on a lynch, and then decide on who your kill should be.

[hand banana]

6 calimed masons.
who agrees with me that we have 3 pairs of town-scum masons?

[hand banana]

and this:

Vote Rishi MAJOR FoS Jemter

is the reason, i'm *possibly* going to kill elias (if i don't get enough defence).

n9 woudn't jsut randomly pick one and major fosed the other if he was scum nad knew about scum-townie pairs.

[Khelvaster]

and this:

Vote Rishi MAJOR FoS Jemter

is the reason, i'm *possibly* going to kill elias (if i don't get enough defence).

n9 woudn't jsut randomly pick one and major fosed the other if he was scum nad knew about scum-townie pairs.

The bigger question is why he didn't go ahead and vote Jenter, seeing as Jenter has not contributed to the town, and he has made a few majorly scummy, yet low-sized posts (the one I mentioned previously being the latest.)

If I were you, I would go straight to the heart of things and kill n9v, assuming Jenter is scum. If Jenter were lynched as scum and you still didn't trust that I was cop, you should probably go ahead and NK n9v. Jenter is clearly scum in my book, as is Panzer. N9V is probably scum, but I find him scummier than his supposed mason partner. Go for Panzer if you trust yourself to find the right NK choice. If not, I'd support your going for N9V. I would like to remind you how Panzer was incredibly un-town in supporting the theory that you must be SK, without even considering that we should keep you alive for at least 1 or 2 nights to test that theory. That is the most incredibly anti-town action I have ever seen in all the mafia games I have played.

@Everyone: With a 4-scum setup highly likely (cops with sanity issues seem highly unlikely,) this game could not be balanced if HB were an SK. 4 scum/1 SK/1 cop/3 nonconfirmed mason pairs/1 doc (hopefully there's a doc...otherwise I'm fucked, along with the rest of the town) is inbalanced. The only town power roles in this case would be the doc and the cop. Against 4 scum and an SK, the town would stand no chance, especially with the wierd mason pairings popping up.

That is why it is extremely reasonable to believe HB is a vig instead of an SK.

[hand banana]

kill n9v?
no, i'm planning to kill elias.

i have no reason to believe you more than i do panzer.