Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

Glork · Post Post #925 (ISO) » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:13 pm

I would say that it's weaker than a standard mason group, because though there are two "lives" and two votes, they are controlled by one player with one mind. One of the advantages of a mason group is that the players can (and should) discuss between each other their thought processes, their suspicions, and any other relevant feelings about the game and its players. Zindaras talking to himself accomplishes nothing (other than the fact that he's got a few bats in the belfry), so that's a significant disadvantage as compared to a standard mason group.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #926 (ISO) » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:31 pm

I said in terms of strategic value to the town, not qualitative value to the town.

In terms of strategic value, the Zindaras/CC group is equivalent in every form except for the fact that they have mod confirmed innocence to each other since you can't tell him that one of his lives is a townie and the other is scum and have them coexist.

We can debate quality all day in terms of whether one player plays better than another.

I would however love to see you argue that Zindaras is worse than Mikanoff/Lowell in
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=, who claimed mason on day one as well and were summarily not lynched for it.

So tell me Glork, did you choose to not lynch Mika/Lowell in that game because you believed they provided better contribution to the thread than Zindaras would be able to?

Skruffs · Post Post #927 (ISO) » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:52 pm

DrippingGoofball wrote:Zzzzmmmmmm... I kinda wondered what might happen if I unfortunately gave my invention to a scumbag. The first thing that came to mind, is that they would refuse to acknowledge receipt. One of 1. Dragon Phoenix, 2. massive or 3. Pooky might be scum then.

Pooky was last to respond. He didn't have to worry about someone counterclaiming receipt of the invention since both my other choices denied it already. So he could either (1) acknowledge receipt and confirm me, or (2) deny receipt and make me look like an idiot, even through Carbon Copy did confirm receiving yesterday's invention.

Either Pooky is scum, or not one of my 3 choices was eligible to receive last night.

Another possibility is that Glork breadcrumbed something to DP because Glork has some tracking ability, and knew that DP was sent something. Glork could be scum and want to take credit for it. Not likely, though, I would consider this most remote.

Skruffs · Post Post #928 (ISO) » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:04 pm

Hmmm...
when it comes down to practicality, Pooky's role is a lot less helpful to the town than Glork's is. So.

Vote : Pooky

Besides, you're a bear. Not a cat. Hiss.

Skruffs · Post Post #929 (ISO) » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:23 pm

Glork, your insistence that there is an inspection-immune godfather, and that you think someone you claimed to have investigated a cleared on is that godfather, suggests that maybe Mistef got a clear on the godfather, last night.

You seem to be acting pro-town while leaving as many back doors open for you to take down what you're building now.

You lynched Zindaras for lying about being Carbon Copy or whatnot - but you yourself lied about what your role did, at least once - who knows how many more.

You're WIFOMing about mafia roleblockers - saying that they would only want to block you - when there is a claimed vig, as well? Also suggesting that there can't be one because you weren't blocked - as if you were the single most important player of the game. Very BMish of you.

Mistef - why haven't you answered the question? Or did you and I missed it?

Not happy with Glork-as-cop's play. Pooky's role determines who I target with Action #9 tonight. It's looking to be DGB if he's scum, or Glork if he's town, but for all I know I'll be protecting. Or giving a role. Or something.
HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE TO KILL D:

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #930 (ISO) » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:01 pm

when it comes to common sense, how strong a role is shouldn't factor into your decision at lynch or lose because if you lynch wrong, it won't matter.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #931 (ISO) » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:03 pm

Look Skruffs, all I'm asking you is for you to give me a chance to state out my case and give Glork a chance to rebutt it. He's going to continue dodging if you let him know that all he has to do is shut up for me to get lynched.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #932 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:53 am

Z'Interesting. Skruffs, how can you make such an articulate case that Glork is scum, then, based on what is most probably a fake claim from Glork by your own logic, vote Pooky because Glork's role is "better?" Isn't that the whole point of a Flying Pumpkin Shooting Lasers fakeclaim? I am afraid you are falling into Glork's trap.

I think one of the reasons Glork is so insistent that some other player is the Godfather, is to distract from the fact that he is the most likely Godfather in this game.

Skruffs, why would you wish me ill tonight, since we both agree that Glork's tops the scummy player list? You're just as likely to be wrong about Glork as I am, you know. However... I don't think we're wrong, and lynching Pooky might lose us the game.

My rule of thumb is to always vote for the player most likely to be scum, regardless of situation, and to never rely on half-baked "night plans" that might be based on Mafia fakeclaims.

That means we should lynch Glork or Nai. I keep my fingers crossed you're not Glork's buddy.

I will switch my vote back to Glork if there is momentum on a Glork-wagon.

Skruffs · Post Post #933 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:54 am

I didn't really post a case. I posted contentions I have against Glork. If Glork is town and has caught Pookie, we have every reason to lynch POokie. IF glork is scum and is framing Pookie, then, he is the immediate vig target/quick lynch target tommorrow. In effect, we can clear glork by lynching pookie and being on our toes, something we can't do by lynching Pookie.

Plus, I can see Pookie's false claim as being more likely that of mafia - someone who 'becomes' a dead player? It sounds like it could"actually" be an animated cartoon spin-off of a real cat. Glork's roleclaim, at least, doesn't sound like any kind of cartoon cat I can think of. It would fit in with a curious cat - asking allt eh questions and such, though.

I'm not going to target Glorko because, if glork is somehow scum, I wouldn't want to accidentally protect him from Theo's vig kill. Assuming Theo is vig, and all. Targetting you might help you or it might hurt you, but I can see you being scum with either glork OR pookie at this point - so in either case, more info might be revealed.

Lastly - why are you voting the easy target, Nai, if Glork tops your scummy player list? Do you ahve a reason to think that Pookie is more town than - say - Theo or Mistef?

Nai · Post Post #934 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:57 am

Something you'll notice: "Glork and Nai are both on my scummy player list. But we should vote Nai." Why on earth would you want to vote me? If Glork is fakeclaiming cop, something that DGB is assuming, then wouldn't you want to lynch him?

The reason they want to lynch me right now is they can't get enough votes on Glork. Glork takes, what, 5 votes to kill? They'd have to convince TWO other townies, at least, to vote for him. However, with me, they can let either TWO of their scum vote for me and a townie lynch me, or they can have TWO of their scum vote for me early on then the last come in, all reluctant-like, and play town putting the final hammer.

It's the easiest path to vote for me, that way scum can knock off a townie and not have to bother convincing more townies.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #935 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:32 am

Zthat's sorta true. But there is more to it, which I already explained, but I'll repeat it.

First, though others may remain unconvinced, I think that your Freudian slip mean that you and Glork are scum. Now, which of the two should be lynched? Glork is a bigger risk, just in case his claim happens to be true, than Nai. So Nai is the best bet. And yes, it would be easier to nail Nai than Glork, which, given how sure I feel about it, is a definite advantage. If Nai turns up town, we haven't lost much since he can be quicklynched by the scum later on anyway, and Glork is still alive. If he's scum, Glork can be vigged.

Nai is a good strategic lynch for today, especially since, IF he's town, he'll be a huge liability to the town later on.

If he's scum, his buddies won't want to spare him, but if he's town, the scum won't want to lynch him, because he'll be too useful to the scum later for an easy quicklynch. I may be wrong, but it looks to me like the only people that would vote against Nai at this stage of the game are either (1) really stupid scum that deserve to lose or (2) townies convinced of Nai's guilt. That's another reason to trust Pooky, when you get right down to it. He's too clever a strategist.

theopor_COD · Post Post #936 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:24 am

Skruffs wrote:Glork, your insistence that there is an inspection-immune godfather, and that you think someone you claimed to have investigated a cleared on is that godfather, suggests that maybe Mistef got a clear on the godfather, last night.

Interesting. I hadn't thought of Miztef and Glork on seperate sides to be honest. Either both town or both scum. Plus Glork similar to BM heavens above.

Still however happy with my vote on DGB.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #937 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:11 pm

You realize Glork has decided he has no need to actually answer my questinoning of him because he knows he'll only look worse if we drag out actual logic and he is just sitting on me waiting for some townie to get bored and hammer me right now because his scumbag buddies are already on me and I'd get lynched by inertia alone.

Here's what the smart protown play would be skruffs, unvote me, tell him that if he continues to ignore me that he's going to get lynched, and actually follow through with the threat if he clams up as he's doing right now.

at least fucking put some pressure on him so that he HAS TO RESPOND TO MY ALLEGATIONS AGAINST HIM.

So far he's taken the case i've put against him and completely ignored it and that's TOTALLY FINE PLAY BECAUSE HE KNOWS IF HE IGNORES ME HE CAN GET ME LYNCHED ANYWAY.

Basically he doesn't need to defend himself because he knows he isn't going to get lynched.

Tell me Skruffs, how does it make sense that Fred the Undercover Kitty who's supposedly a cop would send a message that asks three questions to a player and those answers get published in the thread? How does that make sense at all?

And think for a second what if this were true, GO BACK AN READ THE FIRST 2 PAGES OF THE THREAD!! Glork HINTS at it blatantly that the message COULD BE INVESTIGATIVE. Cops do NOT drop hints like that because the odds of a doc reading into it that way and the chances of a mafia reading into it that way combined with the fact that he's fucking Glork means that he is literally putting a giant SHOOT ME SIGN ON TOP OF HIS HEAD.

Think for a second what you would do as a cop if you have details like that in the thread. Hinting at it that way is ASKING TO BE KILLED AT NIGHT.

That's why I'm saying he's blatantly been setting this crap up from day 1.

But of course he doesn't have to respond to me, he knows that as long as you guys keep your heads stuck firmly in the sand that he won't bloody need to actually rebuke my points against him, all he has to do is keep posting meaningless crap like

"lynch pooky please" that has no fucking logic and is a complete waste of fucking space.(why? because we fucking know he wants me lynched for obvious reasons and we've known for a long bloody time and it reveals no new information and contributes nothing to the thread other than pressuring and coercing others to bend to his whims)

CONSIDER FOR A SECOND WHEN YOU SAY SHIT LIKE "BUT GLORKS ROLE WOULD BE MORE USEFUL SO WE SHOULD LYNCH POOKY" and then stop and consider the fact that if Pooky is town and you lynch him today and he turns up innocent, that means Glork leptoned gambitted and the only reason he'd logically do such a bloody thing is IF HE COULD GET A WIN FROM THE FAKELYNCH, then it DOESNT MATTER HOW USEFUL POOKY'S ROLE WOULD'VE BEEN BECAUSE THE GAME IS FUCKING OVER.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #938 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:13 pm

Glork wrote:
Glork wrote:
theopor_COD wrote:The letter in the street, any ideas?
Well, it seems evident that Thesp was responding to somebody's questions. Off-hand, I'd be very much inclined to guess that it's a pro-town ability. Could be investigative. Could be something else.

That's the breadcrumb i was referring to, pulled off page 2.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #939 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:16 pm

Oh and another thing, it's also somewhat stupid to suggest that a player has been investigated BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT MAFIA FUCKING KILLING THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATED.

IMAGINE THAT YOU ARE A COP, AND THERE IS A PUBLIC REVEAL OF YOUR TARGET BUT PEOPLE ARENT REALLY SURE WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR TARGET ONLY THAT IT POSSIBLY COULD"VE ANSWERED SOME QUESTIONS.

WOULD YOU REALLY FUCKING SUGGEST THAT YOUR TARGET HAD POSSIBLY BEEN "INVESTIGATED"? WHY DONT YOU JUST PUT A GIANT KILL ME SIGN ON YOUR INVESTIGATED PERSON INSTEAD?!?! ITS THE SAME FUCKING THING./

HIS PLAY DOESNT FUCKING MAKE ANY SENSE

BUT YOU IDIOTS ARE GOING TO LYNCH ME INSTEAD

CONGRATS

THE TOWN PLAYERS ON MY LYNCH WIN DUMBEST UFCKING TOWN EVER

HAPPY NOW?!?!

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #940 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:32 pm

Oh and just in case you haven't noticed

Glork is avoiding this game like it's the plague, while he's been posting in other games, he isn't posting to respond to me in this one.

Guess why?

He thinks that you will all just bury your heads in the sand and inertia lynch me and he doesn't have to do anything. He thinks that the less he says here, the better it'll be for him because he honestly has no answers to the logic that I'm laying out against him.

He's decided that actually debating the merits of the case against him would be unwise because people might actually pay attention to the case against him if he did. As long as he holds his nose in the air and says that my case is crap he hopes you will all just decide not to read what i've typed and not think for yourselves.

But think right now for a second what Glork has against me,

1 cop investigation

That is it

This cop investigation depends on his INNOCENCE

If you can't be sure of his innocence, then he has NOTHING AGAINST ME.

This is why cop investigations ARE ALMOST NEVER WORTH ANYTHING ON LYNCH OR LOSE DAY!

So basically what you have here in this situation is:
His cop investigation means:
If I'm innocent he's guilty
and if he's guilty I'm innocent.

That's ALL IT MEANS ON A LYNCH OR LOSE DAY, THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR YOU TO PUNISH HIM WITH THIS THING. IF HE GETS BY NOW THIS GAME IS OVER SO THE COP IS NO MORE LIKELY TO BE THE INNOCENT THAN THE CLAIMED GUILTY INVESTIGATION IS!! THIS IS BASIC MAFIA 101!!

Nai · Post Post #941 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:06 pm

You know, the more and more you insult the intelligence of the town and, with that, me, the less and less am I convinced by you.

Funnily enough, I believe he's town.

So, that means, I believe his investigation.

Because I believe he's town, and I believe his investigation, I believe he got a guilty investigation against you.

Therefore, I believe you are scum.

Your same logic, used from the side of someone disbelieving you. Stop trying to twist the situation using logic that just as easily works the other way around.

And ESPECIALLY don't do the "Heads I win, tails you lose" statement, like you just did.

DGB wrote:If he's scum, his buddies won't want to spare him, but if he's town, the scum won't want to lynch him, because he'll be too useful to the scum later for an easy quicklynch. I may be wrong, but it looks to me like the only people that would vote against Nai at this stage of the game are either (1) really stupid scum that deserve to lose or (2) townies convinced of Nai's guilt. That's another reason to trust Pooky, when you get right down to it. He's too clever a strategist.

Hmm... So, wait. Since I'm sitting at 2 of 3 votes, and that hasn't moved... I guess that means one of two things happened. Either I'm town, and the scum don't want to lynch me and reveal themselves... Or... Well, wait. You just said my buddies wouldn't spare me if I was scum, because that would be revealing themselves, right? So doesn't that mean I HAVE to be town, since I haven't been lynched yet? This is YOUR own argument, now.

As for Pooky, I think he's scum that's been put in a bad replacement situation.

In addition, using POOKY'S own logic... The town is built WAY too powerfully. As such, do you REALLY think that one of the mafia would be given a restriction that they have only half the votes to be killed? I can see that being given to a townie in this game. But a SCUM?

Remember, the MOD has proven that I only have 3 votes to be killed. Look at the recent vote count.

Yeah, I think, all in all, DGB needs to be lynched more than Pooky, just for not reading her own posts.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #942 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:16 pm

so nai

wanna tell me why a cop would hint towards his target so that his target gets pasted at night by the baddies?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #943 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:18 pm

basically what i'm saying is this

I've pointed out many logical reasons why glork is not likely to be protown

I haven't seen you post a single one about why he is protown.

You can tell me what you think but WHY do you think it? Wanna give me a reason? Because I hate Pooky btw isn't a very good one.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #944 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:23 pm

Ok nai but what reason do you have to disbelieve me other than Glork's copclaim?

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #945 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:25 pm

and what the fuck do you mean the less and less you are convinced by me?!?!?!

YOU ARE FUCKING VOTING FOR MY LYNCH

THAT MEANS YOU DONT FUCKING BELIEVE ME AT ALL

HOW CAN I CONVINCE YOU LESS AND LESS WHEN YOUR LOT IS RIGHT NOW TO KILL ME?

MAKE SOME FUCKING SENSE PLEASE

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #946 (ISO) » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:28 pm

AND ON TOP OF THAT

HOW ABOUT ACTUALLY REBUKING MY ARGUMENT FOR WHY GLORK IS SCUM SUCH AS

What a hypothetical rational person would do wrote:Hmm I see you've insulted me, but going down such a vein of thought would only result in insults back and forth and surely that wouldn't be productive, instead I'm going to respond to your logic that you've used in your post against Glork. You lay out that Glork is scum because of "A", however I can see another way that "A" could be interpreted such that Glork isn't scum, or I think your reasons are invalid because of "B"

IS IT REALLY SO MUCH TO ASK THAT ONE OF YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPORTING GLORK AGAINST ME ACTUALLY TAKE THE TIME TO READ THE OBJECTIVE ARGUMENTS IVE LAID OUT AND ACTUALLY REBUKE THEM?

THATS HOW THE GAME OF MAFIA IS ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED BTW.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #947 (ISO) » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:33 am

Zpookyluv, there's really little point banging your head trying to convince Nai. The only explanation I can think of for his stubborness to hang on to Glork's innocence, and his refusal to consider the possibilty that Glork might be playing his Godfather role to the hilt, is that he's Glork's scumbuddy.

Since the scum is ahead in the game at this point, quite sadly, Nai has little incentive to do the townie thing, which is to pressure Glork to at least answer your questions. He just wants to squash a townie today, and he's almost there, why back down?

Glork's plot is so transparent, and, with hindsight, started on Day 1, I find it hard to believe that the other players don't see it.

I don't know what to say anymore, except, this is just a game, and the scum's going to win, but hey it's just a game. The consolation prize is that they took the town on a well-crafted ride. I tip my hat to Glork, even though I don't like losing...

Nai · Post Post #948 (ISO) » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:00 am

One of the reasons I'm not answering you, Pooky, is your actual comments get lost in the angry, capitalized letters. I tend to skip over them because they usually are rants about how stupid the town is, since you're about to get lynched, and insults thrown every which way.

Reasons I think that Glork is town? One, nobody has counterclaimed cop. I highly doubt the town would have NO cop in a game like this. He's a cop with a drawback; he has to send a message and ask a question, thus drawing attention to himself. The ONLY way he can really prove he's cop (since, as DGB has proved, people would call his role the 'Pumpkin with lasers' which, funnily enough, was in the last game I played) is by breadcrumbing. His breadcrumbing did NOT, by the way, say who he was targetting, as far as I can remember. It was breadcrumbing that the ability was investigative, NOT who was being targetted.

In addition, Glork has backed every single one of his movements in this game with facts, with good reasons for doing what he did. I read, saw the trains of thought, and largely agreed with him on most of his actions.

YOU, on the other hand, have largely been telling the town how stupid it is for believing the consistent and logical explanations of Glork rather than your insults, yellow, and general diatribes. You have consistently yelled at the town for not believing you, when your explanations of the actions of the game largely consist on half-baked theories that only make sense if we believe a number of things, including your innocence, Glork's guilt, Miztef's guilt, among others. It seems much more likely that YOU are scum who was placed in a bad position at the start of this day, was found to be scum by a cop, and are trying EVERYTHING you can do to not get lynched.

In due fact, I think that the only reason you have NOT been lynched is that the two people who could do the hammer, Carbon Copy and Primate, have largely been missing the past week and haven't been around to actually do anything.

There. I've answered your questions.

PookyTheMagicalBear · Post Post #949 (ISO) » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:32 am

PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
Glork wrote:
Glork wrote:
theopor_COD wrote:The letter in the street, any ideas?
Well, it seems evident that Thesp was responding to somebody's questions. Off-hand, I'd be very much inclined to guess that it's a pro-town ability. Could be investigative. Could be something else.
That's the breadcrumb i was referring to, pulled off page 2.

Even though I quoted the breadcrumb for you in this post? Why bother remembering if it's been quoted for you on this page by me?

So let me get this straight, when I make posts that start with logic then descend into angry rants, you decided to skip the rational logic, read just the angry rant part and then rant back at me?

my how productive.