Mini 456: Ultimatum Mafia - Game Over!

[The Fonz]

Disagree. That 'four protown looking players' post, to me, implied that those four players looked much of a muchness to you, to the extent that a re-read would be required to find anything especially incriminating.

Also, the vehemence with which you attack Yos' conduct vis-a-vis Battle Mage does not make it look like a minor suspicion to me.

[Yosarian2]

Isn't it easy to argue that someone is a Townie when the Mod has already revealed their alignment?

Um, dude, like THREE POSTS AGO you were attacking me for "never adressing your points for why BM was scum". And now you're attacking me for adressing your points? Granted, I would have MUCH RATHER had this discussion BEFORE you lynched a townie, but your and Dylan's early votes made that impossible.

Anyway, do you realize how scummy you're sounding here, Stoofer? I attacked you because you overly hastily lynched a townie with for what I considered and still consider to be not very good reasons, and for refusing to explain exactally why you thought he was scummy even after he was hammered.

After I do that, you suddenly start attacking me, for really bad reasons; most of them boil down to you either still being mad at me for disgreeing with your policy lynch, or you being mad at me for daring to suspect you based on the way you acted during that day.

And by the way, it's frankly absurd that you claim you were "so angry at BM all day" and you're "never going to play with BM again" because he challanged someone the majority of the town didn't want him to challange? Really? BM's behavior was not anywhere near as distructive or anti-town as that of any number most pro-town players in MAD mafia or either bad idea mafia game. Do you never want to play with any of them either?

[Mr Stoofer]

Perhaps you are right, perhaps I am being irrational refusing to play with Battle Mage ever again. But that is how furious I am with him.

[mneme]

As I said in V/LA, I'm going to Origins for the next five days.

In case I have issues accessing the site, I've left a full list of proxies for voting and challenging with the moderators.

[pablito]

With the national government radio commission being less vigilant of the airwaves this week, we at the underground political radio station would like to give you the most wonderful prohibited foreign propoganda in the world. Normally we could never get away with playing something foreign and so liberating, but without the censors being at full power, we may now bring you the wonderful Colombian muse Shakira with her song Las de la intuición. We will play it 24 hours straight because we love Shakira and her hypnotic body and how it tells us how to properly vote. If only the government could pay her to make a video about compulsory voting.

Game Status: Cycle 4
Randomized Deadline to Challenge: 7/4/07 11:51 A.M.
Least recent to post:

Albert B. Rampage

Deadline for Albert B. Rampage to declare Challengee: 7/5/07 11:51 P.M.
Deadline to Lynch: 23:59 7th of July
All times EDT.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think I'm going to stay away from the heavyweights...

[The Fonz]

I think I'm going to stay away from the heavyweights...

Hmmm.... surely the idea is to challenge the person you find scummiest?

[Albert B. Rampage]

In that case, wouldn't I challenge VD ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

(I don't think I will challenge VD. Probably Dean...)

[The Fonz]

Perhaps I ought to rephrase that. The pro-town thing to do here is to challenge the person you think is most likely to be conservative. If that's VD, sobeit. Challenging someone you think you can beat but who you don't find that scummy is, well, scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's true. It seems, in games like these, that it is meant for the "hard" players to all meet up in the end and slug it out, weeding the "easy" players on the way. In that case I'm a dead man to begin with. My best bet would be to attack one of the "easy" lynches, and hope that the "hard" lynches challenge each other tomorrow. In that case, if both Dean and me are innocent, the town has already lost.

I can't challenge mneme because he's gone, so he wouldn't be able to defend himself and provide us leads when he's gone.

The only possible challengees are Dean and VD. Since we are out to kill conservative, and I think VD is liberal, I have to against Dean.

[Yosarian2]

That dosn't really make sense, Albert.

If you think Dean is likely scum, challange Dean. If you think Mneme is likey scum, challange mneme. I can understand that you might not want to challange someone you think you'd lose to, no one wants to die, but if you are pro-town you should challange someone you think is likely scum, and be able to explain why. How else are we supposed to figure out what your alignment might be, and how else are we supposed to have a chance to catch scum?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let me put it this way: mneme is more likely scum than Dean. But mneme is absent so I don't want to challenge mneme. Dean I find third scummiest after VD and mneme, but since I think VD is liberal, I have to challenge Dean.

[DeanWinchester]

albert challenge who you think is scum. Than explain why you think they are scum. Trying to pick someone you think you can out debate is a scum move in this scenario.

[Mr Stoofer]

albert challenge who you think is scum. Than explain why you think they are scum. Trying to pick someone you think you can out debate is a scum move in this scenario.

QFT.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Challenge: mneme

[Mr Stoofer]

Now set out your case against mneme, please.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Your saying it as if it was a chore

[Albert B. Rampage]

Given his action, the odds of BM being scum are fairly high -- and even if he isn't, the loss in info/day of letting him get away with this substantially outweighs the loss to the town of a mislynch.

I disagree with this post. If BM would have been saved, he wouldn't have repeated this behavior because there are no other 100% surefire scum, which is the sole reason why BM challenged VD.

But...it isn't the way to bet, and while dylan has a point with his "I'm so hated, I must be town" speech

This looks like a weird thing to say before voting for Stewie. Dylan doesn't have a point with his "I'm so hated, I must be town" speech.
If he was scum his team would have thrown him under the bus a long time ago.

That said, I'm very interested in the discussion between Yos and Stoofer -- it's self-evident, but if the newbish players aren't all or most of the conservative mafia (seems likely that they aren't all, at least), some have to be hiding among the "core".

I'm not exactly sure what he's saying here. Is he trying to keep his options open and kill either one of Yos or Stoof should they have challenged eachother today ?

I still think it might be possible Dylan is scum with mneme tough...maybe.

*giggle*. That would require a really big bus. Maybe a fleet.

I've been anti-dylan all three days, nom'd him all three days, and voted to kill him on two of them (I didn't have an opportunity on day 2). I could (looking as a third party observer, which I'm not) see any of the experienced player sitting in the center of this game as possible scum, incluidng yours truly -- but this one's pretty hard to credit.

Again, this looks a lot like trying to confuse the town. I think he's trying to fake a mistake to appear town. Well, he got his Dylan lynch all right.

Hmm. Players left who have an unknown alignment to me: DeanWinchester, Mr Stoofer, Albert B. Rampage (r. SpinWizard), Stewie, The Fonz,Yosarian2

I'm pretty sure VD is Liberal, as he says he is -- for the reasons I've stated earlier.

Let's leave out Dean for the moment -- Stoofer's got a point about "too clueless to be scum" though that doesn't clear him.

That leaves us with three scum among Stoofer, Albert, Stewie, Fonz, and Yosarian.

We've had the following distancing:

Stoofer: Yosarian (both ways),
Albert: none (me, but I'm not on the above list). Also, recieving (as spinwizard), Stewie (also as Albert), Fonz (only once, though, and as a secondary)
Stewie: Albert, Dean, (many, many times for both, oddly)
Fonz: Albert, Dean
Yosarian: Stoofer. Both ways.


This is very interesting. First, it seems to indicate that Albert's probably not scum. (would have to be scum with stoofer and yosarian, assuming !bus, and that one's too unlikely to credit for now).

Second, since yosarian and stoofer are probably not -both- scum, that means that stewie and fonz are scum.

That said, Stewie's play has been very good.

Therefore,

Nom: Fonz

I seldom like these kinds of posts; "x and y can't be scum together because x has been attacking y" is often a scum strategy to influence the town's play. The mafia already know who is attacking who, so its easy for x to attack y, both being scum, knowing that their teammate z would arrive to the conclusion that x isn't scum with y and proclaim this to the town.

Err...that was confusing...I'll try to clarify if you ask me more specific questions. Ever since I replaced I've felt this fake, plastic vibe coming from mneme, I can't explain this hunch too well. It would help if everyone would pitch in and accuse me and mneme to set some ideas straighter in my mind.

[pablito]

Albert B. Rampage

has challenged

mneme

The other six of you must vote on who you want to survive the debate. Please vote for whom you want to win the debate and remain in the game.

Deadline for all votes is:

23:59 EDT 7th of July

.

Everyone must vote and you cannot unvote. Please do not "confirm" your vote. You get one chance to vote, and that is it. Failure to vote will result in modkill. There will be no replacements until someone is lynched.

Whoever receives fewer votes will be lynched. Tie votes will result in the last vote being subtracted. A simple plurality of votes will lead to one person being saved.

[Stewie]

I don't agree with most of that, but I do think that the "x attacking y, therefore they can't both be scum" argument is kinda crappy (I'm sure it's wrong, as its conclusion is me being scum, which I know I am not). I now await for mneme's response to Albert's post.

[Mr Stoofer]

I'm afraid I'm going away for a week, so I'm going to have to vote today.

None of Albert's points cut any ice with me at all. However, I really didn't like mneme's post 522 which (to the extent I understood it) contained all sorts of assumptions and logical leaps that I didn't get. For example, I never said that Dean was "too clueless to be scum"; and although I know that Yosarian2 and I are not bussing each other (because I am a minority candidate), I don't like the way mneme ruled that possibility out so readily.

I've asked for an explanation but got none so far. I'd like to see that post explained in more detail before I cast my vote [although that may not be possible].

As for Albert, he is a classic "easy" player. There are plenty of reasons why he might be scum, just as there were with dylan and Battle Mage...

As I say, I'll have to pick someone in the next few hours, but I'd really rather here from mneme before I do.

[Mr Stoofer]

~sigh~

Vote: Albert B. Rampage. If I were a betting man, I'd say neither of them were scum. But since I have to vote someone, today, or else I'll get modkilled, I'm going to vote mneme for post 522 and (more importantly) not justifying it when called on to do so.

[Mr Stoofer]

[/b]Vote: Albert B. Rampage[/b]

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[Mods, feel free to delete these last two posts and just put the bolding on post 572.]