Mini 456: Ultimatum Mafia - Game Over!

[Yosarian2]

hmmm...no posts in 12 hours? That's unusual for this game.

Albert, can you explain why you agreed with Stoofer during his debate with me?

[DeanWinchester]

I think the scum are not giving out noms hoping to deadline. If activity doesn't increase soon I'm going to challenge stoofer or albert.

[DeanWinchester]

I think deadline is about any time three hours from now.

[Stewie]

That's cool with me, but consider that stoofer isn't back for another 5 days (you may still challenge him, just know he's away, and that he'll probably get modkilled anyways).

[The Fonz]

Challenge: Stoofer

I don't want him modkilled. That just gives everyone else the opportunity to lurk until it happens. We get far more information from challenging and forcing people (particularly Yos/Dean) to take a position.

[pablito]

The Fonz

has challenged

Mr Stoofer

The other five of you must vote on who you want to survive the debate. Please vote for whom you want to win the debate and remain in the game.

Deadline for all votes is: 23:59 EDT 15th of July.

Everyone must vote and you cannot unvote. Please do not "confirm" your vote. You get one chance to vote, and that is it. Failure to vote will result in modkill. There will be no replacements until someone is lynched.

Whoever receives fewer votes will be lynched. A simple plurality of votes will lead to one person being saved.

[Yosarian2]

I'm not sure what you mean by "force me to take a position", as I certanly think I have taken a position on Stoofer. But ok. Fonz, could you explain why you think Stoofer is scum?

[The Fonz]

Well, you never actually nommed him, and you provided the clinching vote in killing a townie and saving the guy most likely to be his scumbuddy. You've distanced from him, sure, but you've not yet done anything I'd see as opposed to Stoof-scum's interests.

Most of my case against Stoof is in my 539 and 543. The short version:

He's been on every lynch so far. None have been conservative.

The fact that he made such a song and dance about how Battle Mage had to die for policy reasons, and then decided that he might well be scum when the idea of policy-lynching came under attack.

I'll pull the following extract out, as it seems particularly pertinent:

As the day wore on I came to think more and more that Battle Mage was actually Scum - so of course I posted my reasons. I especially wanted to convince those such as Yosarian2 who were not willing to take the "policy" into account when choosing who to vote for.

Except that a lot of your attempts to 'convince' Yos came after Battle Mage's lynch was inevitable, and you didn't need his vote.

Looks like ass-covering to me.

The 'hard lynch' thing. As I said before, it seems like a rationalisation for saving scummy people over townish ones. His conversion also occurred just in time to save Albert and kill off a townie. I don't think this is a coincidence. This bit sums up my thoughts:

My point exactly. I was about to make a post just nominating the two easiest lynches, when I suddenly thought: "this is too easy, there must be scum amongst the players whom I have been regarding, up to now, as pro-Town."

Presumably, you thought they were easy lynches because they looked extremely scummy to you, right? And equally obviously, you must have had some reason to think those four town. 'There must be at least one scum amongst these four' is no argument at all, since one in four is a lower proportion than you'd get by picking on someone at random (3/7), if indeed you are town.

The speed with which he turns on Yos after Yos suggests that Stoof looks scummy, having up to that point found him town. See my 550. I don't know whether it was OMGUS or staged distancing, but either way it looks scummy to me.

The way in which he apparently found Yos' defence of BM scummy, but made no comment at all about Albert doing the same.

I think that's the gist of it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

^

A hell lot of bullshit right there. Will comment later.

[The Fonz]

What a surprise...

[The Fonz]

Oh, and we're still waiting for you to tell us (ie- pull out of your ass) the reasons why you think Stoof had the upper hand in the argument with Yos.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Most of my case against Stoof is in my 539 and 543. The short version:

He's been on every lynch so far. None have been conservative.

You cannot blame Stoofer for a group mistake. If those players died, its because the majority of the town believed they were conservative.

The fact that he made such a song and dance about how Battle Mage had to die for policy reasons, and then decided that he might well be scum when the idea of policy-lynching came under attack.

Once again, a majority of players wanted to lynch BM for policy reasons, including mneme:

If we let BM get away with this insanely anti-town move, we're encouraging people to practice day killing (which is what an early challenge amounts to if it has any chance of working -- doubly so, since it's both killing the day and killing -during- the day). Only scum have an incentive to challenge early, especially in a way that contradicts the town debate. Therefore, anyone who's acted this way has more or less announced scummishness.

I may want to add that I wasn't in on that, and would have had VanDamien killed. And honestly, VanDamien has been more reliable than BM so far, and I would think the mafia wouldn't care whoever is lynched - if VD truly is liberal.

The 'hard lynch' thing. As I said before, it seems like a rationalisation for saving scummy people over townish ones. His conversion also occurred just in time to save Albert and kill off a townie. I don't think this is a coincidence. This bit sums up my thoughts:

My point exactly. I was about to make a post just nominating the two easiest lynches, when I suddenly thought: "this is too easy, there must be scum amongst the players whom I have been regarding, up to now, as pro-Town."

Presumably, you thought they were easy lynches because they looked extremely scummy to you, right? And equally obviously, you must have had some reason to think those four town. 'There must be at least one scum amongst these four' is no argument at all, since one in four is a lower proportion than you'd get by picking on someone at random (3/7), if indeed you are town.

The speed with which he turns on Yos after Yos suggests that Stoof looks scummy, having up to that point found him town. See my 550. I don't know whether it was OMGUS or staged distancing, but either way it looks scummy to me.

I found the hard lynch thing was very logical - not being at LyLo yet, it wouldn't be a bad move to lynch someone who's death would yield a lot of information. We would have an easier time analyzing and making connections to make the right choices when we are actually in Ly-Lo.

The way in which he apparently found Yos' defence of BM scummy, but made no comment at all about Albert doing the same.

I think that's the gist of it.

Because at the time I mostly relied on Yosarian to base my defense of BM on, Stoofer naturally refuted Yosarian's arguments, since I didn't have much to say that Yos didn't already put on the table.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It looks like your distancing yourself a hell lot from Yosarian...maybe your not scum with him. I think a Stewie/Fonz/Dean scum team is highly likely, while Stoofer and Yosarian are likely town...but I'm not 100% sure.

[The Fonz]

Most of my case against Stoof is in my 539 and 543. The short version:

He's been on every lynch so far. None have been conservative.

You cannot blame Stoofer for a group mistake. If those players died, its because the majority of the town believed they were conservative.

Stoofer is the only one who's been on every one. That's a noteworthy voting pattern. Is any one lynch his fault exclusively? Of course not. The mneme vote was particularly scummy. Without Stoof's vote, the townish player would not have been lynched, and the scummy one saved, so I damn well can blame him, and everyone else who voted to save you there.

The fact that he made such a song and dance about how Battle Mage had to die for policy reasons, and then decided that he might well be scum when the idea of policy-lynching came under attack.

Once again, a majority of players wanted to lynch BM for policy reasons, including mneme:

Including mneme? Mneme was

the only

player other than Stoof in favour of a policy lynch. So the claim that a majority thought that way is simply untrue. Stewie, Dylan and myself voted for him because he looked scummy.

I think that we should only lynch BM if we really think he's scum. The only reason to keep VD around is numbers, but getting rid of a townie will also reduce out numbers. Right now, the only reason I have to think BM is scum is that challenge he just made.

I believe Spin Wizard, Battlemage and one other person (maybe DeanWinchester) comprise the conservative mafia.

I think the correct pro-town course of action here, at the very least, is to interrogate BM as thoroughly as possible, so that we can make the most informed guess about whether or not he is conservative or not.

And mneme, unlike Stoofer, had the courage of his convictions- as soon as he declared himself strongly in favour of a BM lynch, he voted BM. Whereas Stoof, it was like he was saying 'we must lynch BM for sure' early on, to encourage others to vote him, whilst waiting until he had as many excuses as possible lined up before voting him himself.

If we let BM get away with this insanely anti-town move, we're encouraging people to practice day killing (which is what an early challenge amounts to if it has any chance of working -- doubly so, since it's both killing the day and killing -during- the day). Only scum have an incentive to challenge early, especially in a way that contradicts the town debate. Therefore, anyone who's acted this way has more or less announced scummishness.

vote: VanDamien

I may want to add that I wasn't in on that, and would have had VanDamien killed. And honestly, VanDamien has been more reliable than BM so far, and I would think the mafia wouldn't care whoever is lynched - if VD truly is liberal.

Not true. The main way in which VD has influenced play since then was by voting to save you. Which, as I think is obvious, I believe to have been strongly to the town's detriment. And like it or not, a townie has more reason to try to actively help the town than a Liberal does.



[

quote="The Fonz"]
The 'hard lynch' thing. As I said before, it seems like a rationalisation for saving scummy people over townish ones. His conversion also occurred just in time to save Albert and kill off a townie. I don't think this is a coincidence. This bit sums up my thoughts:

My point exactly. I was about to make a post just nominating the two easiest lynches, when I suddenly thought: "this is too easy, there must be scum amongst the players whom I have been regarding, up to now, as pro-Town."

Presumably, you thought they were easy lynches because they looked extremely scummy to you, right? And equally obviously, you must have had some reason to think those four town. 'There must be at least one scum amongst these four' is no argument at all, since one in four is a lower proportion than you'd get by picking on someone at random (3/7), if indeed you are town.

The speed with which he turns on Yos after Yos suggests that Stoof looks scummy, having up to that point found him town. See my 550. I don't know whether it was OMGUS or staged distancing, but either way it looks scummy to me.

I found the hard lynch thing was very logical - not being at LyLo yet, it wouldn't be a bad move to lynch someone who's death would yield a lot of information. We would have an easier time analyzing and making connections to make the right choices when we are actually in Ly-Lo.[/quote]

That doesn't make any sense. mneme was one of the least informative lynches possible. The only potential tie was to Dean. Not that I believe lynching 'for information' is ever a good thing anyway, but you would have been a more informative lynch, as well as being much scummier.

The way in which he apparently found Yos' defence of BM scummy, but made no comment at all about Albert doing the same.

I think that's the gist of it.

Because at the time I mostly relied on Yosarian to base my defense of BM on, Stoofer naturally refuted Yosarian's arguments, since I didn't have much to say that Yos didn't already put on the table.

Stoofer didn't refute Yos' arguments. He didn't even come close. Again, please explain why you felt Stoofer 'had the upper hand,' in that argument, since I strongly feel that Yos did.

[Guardian]

NUGGI AIR News Report

Hey. National Under-Ground Greatly Illicit and Illegal Radio reporting... We mostly are the former employees of NGR, the government didn't provide us with funding -- apparently you didn't

write your congressmen

! If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, we guess. We are really saddened that not one of you cried out in protest at our radio station's death... you all live very busy lives though. We will continue functioning in this capacity however, always your dedicated correspondents.... O SNAP! They're breaking down the door, fourth time since we've set up we've had to get out quick. To hell with the government!

We had a lot of new to give you about the employment of the previous FSOCL candidates, and some secrets about the degree of corruption in the government, but for now, we've got to go!

All we have time for is to remind you of this:

Game Status: Cycle 5
Deadline to Lynch - 23:59 EDT 15 July 2007

Votes to Save

The Fonz

(0) -

Mr Stoofer

(0) -

First to three will win the primary!

NUGGI AIR, signing out; gone for now -- but hopefully not forgotten! Keep us in your hearts and prayers!

[DeanWinchester]

I have not liked stoofers play. I don't like how albert defended him and in general I think the case against stoofer, especially his voting record, is suspect.

Vote: The fonz

I think The fonz willing to step up and challenge stoofer is a very good sign that he is town.

[Stewie]

vote: the fonz

I just can't see him being scum, and with Albert's defence I now have almost no doubt that they are both scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

God I am good at formulating weak arguments - and for once, I am proud of doing it purposely.

Vote: The Fonz

Let's wrap this baby up nice and tight

[The Fonz]

God I am good at formulating weak arguments - and for once, I am proud of doing it purposely.

Vote: The Fonz

Let's wrap this baby up nice and tight

You played your allotted role brilliantly, I must say.

Now, how about this massive tax cut?

(Yes, I know, technically the third scumbuddy has to avoid the modkill, but with three days left I'd say that's a formality).

I was slightly worried Stewie would twig why you hadn't yet voted for Stoof, but seems like we got away with it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This one was all due to your "pro-towniness" 8)

[The Fonz]

Not really. I think the mneme lynch was the crucial one, and that was the one that had least to do with me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh, your just being humble

Yosarian did a magnificent job too, tough. Haha it must suck to be town right now, watching the mafia giving accolades to each other in plain sight like this.

[The Fonz]

So what's your 'lesson learned' from this one going to be?

(Btw- love having 'Don't get lynched D1' as a lesson).

[Albert B. Rampage]

Jester Rampage = Unstoppable

[Yosarian2]

vote:The Fonz

It'd suck to get modkilled now