Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Bulbazak]

I could have done that. Decided not to. Most of the stuff I've said again anyway. The only thing I haven't said again is that our team's strategy is support, so I'm going to be focused on working with my town reads.

[GuyInFreezer]

Oh also if we're playing token meta (which I'm not planning to do btw) tammy would've put at least 3 tokens on her being town

[Titus]

@Bulba, how can you townread someone who has not posted?

[GuyInFreezer]

Shadoweh's iso is boring compared with the recent game with her so I don't understand Shadoweh - townread coming from Zar team.

[GuyInFreezer]

@Bulba, how can you townread someone who has not posted?

I don't think this is something you should be pursuing.
You should go back to whatever you were doing.

[Titus]

@Bulba, how can you townread someone who has not posted?

I don't think this is something you should be pursuing.
You should go back to whatever you were doing.

Antitown or stupid to pursue that?

[GuyInFreezer]

Antitown and pointless.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba, how can you townread someone who has not posted?

How can you scum read someone who has not posted?

[GuyInFreezer]

See?
Pointless.

[Titus]

@Bulba, It's not a scumread on Mastina..yet. It's more of a get your ass in here, you are scaring me. I don't like being unsettled by her.

[Bulbazak]

Would it help if I told you that she's not posting in any other games?

[Bulbazak]

And if I find out she is, I'll even help you nail her feet to the floor.

[Titus]

@Bulba, I will hold you to that.

Bane: Zar

[Bulbazak]

Welp, my Titus read just firmed up.

[GuyInFreezer]

Welp, my Titus read just firmed up.

I don't disagree with your titus read but I do want to know the basis of it. How does that post makes her town?

[Cheetory6]

It looks like you don't know what way to come down on your buddy.

I feel like there's no way that I can respond to this without being awkward. Thanks. :c

[Bulbazak]

Welp, my Titus read just firmed up.

I don't disagree with your titus read but I do want to know the basis of it. How does that post makes her town?

It wasn't that post specifically. It was the whole exchange. Titus was demonstrating paranoia in Mastin, and her wanting to work that read out with me was genuine and not faked. That's a town thought process.

[Cheetory6]

Okay, going to try to put this game down for the night after this q.q.
@Bulba, right now I'm standing on the outside of a heated argument between two players that I've never played with before. I don't understand most of the references that either of them are making. I don't really fully get where a lot of Tammy's points are coming from or Zar's points in response. I think it would be a lot stranger for me to have any kind of strong feeling on either of them, especially since I usually find it pretty hard to sort emotional interactions.

That aside, I don't really understand why you're expecting me to have a strong read on someone who seems like he's partially playing telephone with his teammate's thoughts and opinions? Most of the reasons people are finding scummy about Zar are related to his teammate's thoughts on the game, which I think could be somewhat lost in translation.
Yes, I find Zar's indirect and slow manner of responding to things here a little scummy and prepared, but I feel like waiting to hear a calmer Tammy's thoughts on the matter is reasonable and she's not exactly a super strong townread for me, so I'm also looking to firm that read up as well through reading non-angry thoughts from her.

[Bulbazak]

Tammy is pretty obvious as town, and she's towned it up hard so far. As for Zar, it's not Tammy's case but the way he's reacted that's convinced me. He feels very stiff and unnatural. It's similar to what Tammy's seeing, but coming from another angle not related to meta.

[Titus]

Good night guys. I'll catch you tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

DV wrong the last time he played against him, so his meta read makes no sense.

This is a concern of mine too, especially with Zar being unable to decide whether it's a confident read or not, but I'd like to hear more first!

No. Empire says he has a strong read on you. He is basing it on the meta on you off the top of his head, though.

Thanks, that makes sense and I think I read you wrong before.

@GiF, Espy's in this game but he is a little nuts so I am giving him a little leeway. He will obvtown or obvscum without pressure...hopefully.

Espe is great and I'm super excited to be playing with him.

Ceph has it right. You should listen to him.

If you're going to say stuff like this to me please back it up. I can be incredibly stubborn when it comes down to it and this isn't going to help. Why should I not be giving bane to UT? Why should I think that Cheetory being less analytical and more inclined to take potshots in early game here than in later-game elsewhere means he's scum? Why are you acting all superior and telling me to bane Cheetory when you're giving bane to Zar?

-

Oh, and unrelated, but I'm probably not going to be forming reads on people before they post and I don't get the benefit of giving bane to people who haven't posted. The only reason I can see is that because the bane target is not here we get to pretend that we're actually not giving the bane to anyone, so obviously I'm missing something.

Oh and regarding Cheetory's stance on Zar, I think it's pretty reasonable and quite similar to my own stance so it seems weird that Bulb would scumread him for it. I've been scared myself of getting swept up by what is actually a pretty good-sounding case and lynching a team that I think has great players who I'd love to have around if they're town. Obviously this isn't going to stop me from lynching them if I think they're scum, but I'm going to actually think it through, and Tammy's reaction is quite emotional, so it's reasonable to think it possible that she'd be less passionate about it later on. I don't think she will be, but for someone who isn't very familiar with the players, it makes a lot of sense.

I am concerned about Zar, particularly the team's townread on me which feels almost like it's because it's what all the cool kids are doing, and Tammy's words hold a lot of weight imo, but I've decided that I'd still rather bane targets such as UT or Bulbazak, who has more recently started to concern me. I probably can't explain why in coherent terms, but for me they just fit in my mind better as scum. If Zar is baned then I'm not going to be upset over it since my confidence in him not being scum is probably lower than this post makes out, but the sudden increase in interest in baning Zar (bulbazak's jump onto it is particularly bad imo) has me all cautious, and I don't know whether it's me being too much of a worry wart or not but it is what it is.

[vezokpiraka]

Why did multiple people ask of I'm scum?
Are you trying to soflty push a mislynch on me or something?
I'm town.

[Bulbazak]

Why should I not be giving bane to UT?

I'm really not seeing the point in giving it to UT. I agree that those early posts seemed off, but not in the way that the body of Cheetory or Zar does. For me, UT is a "wait and see" read, while the others are full fledge scum reads, hence why I want to bane them. Maybe you're seeing something that I'm not, but I don't see why UT deserves the bane more than Cheetory, Zar, or any other scum read.

Why should I think that Cheetory being less analytical and more inclined to take potshots in early game here than in later-game elsewhere means he's scum?

I never said that's why he's scum. I'm looking at the way he's reacting to different players, and it doesn't feel like town to me.

Why are you acting all superior and telling me to bane Cheetory when you're giving bane to Zar?

I typed that before I decided to switch to Zar. I still think Cheetory is a better bane target than UT, though. However, if you had to choose between Cheetory or Zar, I'd go with Zar. My point is that Cephrir seems to be thinking along the same lines as myself, which is a good thing, and given your indecisiveness, it might be a good idea to listen to him.

Oh and regarding Cheetory's stance on Zar, I think it's pretty reasonable and quite similar to my own stance so it seems weird that Bulb would scumread him for it.

Look, I get that you're lost right now, but can you please not let yourself form judgements around who appeals to your emotional side. You're doing an awful lot of that right now, and I'm afraid you're not looking at things objectively. Cheetory was not being indecisive about Zar. He was trying to dismantle Tammy's push on Zar while telling Zar to stop scumming it up.

P-edit: In other news, Vezok's scum.

[DeasVail]

I don't think I'm in the right state of mind to respond right now so I'll get back to you later.

[Bulbazak]

Just please look at how you responded to Marquis and Zar when they both buddied up to you.