Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[ChannelDelibird]

Yesterday and today helpfully my least-free-time days of the week but I'll try to read up at the office if I can. In the meantime, Shadoweh is scummy.

[DeasVail]

Sorry for probably being more abrasive than I should have been before.

Bulb, if you're town then I appreciate the advice, but I currently think you're scum for a number of reasons, not limited to you telling me what to do. I do form reads emotionally sometimes and I'm aware of this, but I feel it's unfair to dismiss my reads because of this, especially when they are not entirely emotional.

Regarding Cheetory, the stuff about being less analytical and taking pot-shots are the lines along which Ceph is thinking, and I don't know what to think of you claiming to be thinking along the same lines as Ceph when you evidently have no idea what Ceph was thinking. Well actually, I do have a theory, and I'll get to that.

Ultimately, I think you're attempting to manipulate me and doing a poor job of it. It would seem strange for someone to interact with the paragon in such a way, but it's quite common knowledge that I believe I'm not nearly as good as my banner would suggests, and I have been described using such words as meek, indecisive and submissive in the past. So, I do not believe it beyond you, or anyone else, to try manipulating me in such a way if you consider it in your best interests to do so. If you are scum as I suspect then you have vastly underestimated the extent of my paranoia.

You have told me that Ceph is right and that I should listen to him even though it has been proven that you have no idea what he was even saying. You say that I'm indecisive, and while this is a common feature of my play, I have been making a (most likely futile) attempt to live up to the paragon title that has been ascribed to me and don't believe that I've actually been indecisive here. I've been clear about which choice I want, to bane or not to bane, and also who I want to bane (ironically any indecision regarding this is only coming about now). You tell me that I'm lost when the only indication for this is that I don't agree with your reads. You are using my 'emotional side' in an attempt to get me to stop not-scumreading Cheetory when my reasons for disagreeing with you are merely seeing his position on the TammyvZar issue as a sensible one that I could see town taking, and not emotional at all. You claim that my townread on Marquis and lack of super strong scumread on Zar are only due to their buddying of me. However, my main reason for townreading Marquis is unrelated to his buddying (the influence of which on my read I'm quite aware of) and my main concern about Zar is his townread of me.

The above myriad of really strange (and pretty much entirely untrue) claims makes me think that you must be scum. I think it's very likely that people who don't know me well (and in fact probably all but those closest to me) would believe that the best method of defusing me as a threat would be to tell me I'm wrong, sew doubt into me regarding my own reads. Surely meek, indecisive, submissive DV would retreat into his bubble of self-loathing and follow your lead! I even believe that this could happen myself sometimes, and it was in fact my gut reaction to your comments, especially 374.

I guess having this paragon thing has instilled some semblance of confidence within me, and this is dangerous. Whether for town or scum though... that's still to be decided.

Things that give me more confidence in my read are the following:

-His response to Ffery in 341 is the kind of response I could see myself making as scum. Ffery's quote is rather harmless and under normal circumstances shouldn't give Bulbazak any cause for concern. She is aware of her tendency to scumread him or want to scumread him. However, I believe Bulb's reply reveals an underlying self-consciousness/need to be townread.
-Again in 341, I dislike the way he voted to bane Zar, acting as if it wasn't his choice to but rather his team-mate telling him to, when in fact he later claims that he does believe Zar is scum.

Bane: Bulbazak

Though really all I want is to see him lynched.

[mastin2]

Hello.
I'm on page one.

Choice: One

. I'm 80% certain this is the right choice.

Bane: Titus

. Because I see no scenario in which knowing her sign is a bad thing.

[mastin2]

he couldn't stop talking about how much he loves being scum and all these evil mustache twirling plans he had in mind for future scum games, so...

Sounds a lot like me. Unfortunately, my team was more focused on getting specific

games

(we got every game we wanted, and positioned pretty much exactly as we desired too) rather than specific alignments, so here I am stuck as not only town, but a walking deadwoman of a town player.

[mastin2]

Choosing between One and Two seems to be kinda irrelevant to me, honestly, but I'd prefer Two to One.

While I need to debate this to be sure, I'd massively, MASSIVELY prefer One.

[mastin2]

Actually, UT's anger does feel a little off, given that the only catalyst for it was someone disagreeing with him. I guess it's possible that UT has extreme anger issues, but it doesn't seem particularly likely.

Not the town-UT *I* knew.

[mastin2]

Actually, I'm an idiot.
I got that backwards.

Choice: Two

.

This

is the superior option, pretty sure.
Sorry.

[Shadoweh]

Please humor me. I think you're going off of the assumption that Mastin's team would spend tokens on her being scum, because Mastin is good as scum. However, you are ignoring that Mastin is the master of her own meta, and I wouldn't put it past her to WIFOM everyone by not spending tokens on herself. I also know that she's had a hard time posting in games as of late, so going for scum might not be the best move. In short, Mastin could be anything due to recent events and the fact that she's Mastin. Therefore, I think we need to read her on her own play and not on a meta game. In that sense, baning her at this time is a bad move, because if town, we want Mastin's sign to be a secret.

Being the master of your own meta doesn't change what you prefer. It does mean that certain people think they can scum token and get away with it despite everyone's implicit knowledge that they prefer scum, because they are scumzors elite who can totally fool people. You ask later how you can scumread someone whose never posted, but the alignment game started before the game did. This is the downfall of having a mechanic that lets you rig your alignment.

I'm rereading, but I want to make clear that I am not baning for 'lurking' or any weird not posting reason, I fully believe everyone known for liking scum should be policy lynched, and this isn't even a full lynch so etc.

Cut: See, now Mastin is cutting me with annoying wall strips, and even Mastin thinks we should lynch Mastin!

[mastin2]

I've thought about it and I really believe that Choice 1 is better. I think it has great potential to confirm people as town where Choice 2 wouldn't. I'm happy to consider arguments for Choice 2 in the meantime though.

How about that Choice 2, while not confirming players from the word of the mod, can still confirm players through word of the player, while making said protection stronger, meaning town potentially lives longer?

(Very important, that.)

[DeasVail]

How about that Choice 2, while not confirming players from the word of the mod, can still confirm players through word of the player, while making said protection stronger, meaning town potentially lives longer?

I don't get what you mean here, so if you could explain in simple terms it would be much appreciated. I do also have a more detailed posts explaining my preference of choice.

[mastin2]

Because you're not actually discussing the game.

My team's quite active! Just not on what I need at the moment.

[mastin2]

I still want to powerbane Mastin and am looking forward to walls about it!

Tough. All you're getting is that Baning me is a Very Bad Idea (TM). I have very good reason for this.

That said, Grey's probs-right about TSO.

[mastin2]

Kinda surprised Mastina is not here yet.

Weekend V/LA, work, plus dealing with rl affairs. (Schedule conflict. Nasty.)

Builds up.

Also, going to say that I agree with the assessment of my buddies on DV more or less, but what said assessment IS will wait.

[mastin2]

What do you think of baning Mastina?

Seriously, don't make me emphasize this more. I'm already a dead woman walking; don't speed it up.

[mastin2]

So what do YOU think of Zar/Tammy interaction? TvT? TvS? Scum theatre?

Probably has scum involved. 1 or 2 makes the difference in my other reads, though. And not really stating an opinion on which of the three scum combos I think is most likely. I don't think it's townVtown is all.

[mastin2]

(Also, vezok's town.)

[Shadoweh]

You think Zar/Tammy is possible scum on scum? :V
We don't have to hammer the bane right away, Tammy's argument on Zar is really good for this early though so I don't mind baning him. I'm not familiar with Cheetoboy but his question always seem 5 pages behind and useless at the time he posts them.

[mastin2]

I really don't like Mastina lurking.

FFS, you have NO clue how much this argument ticks me off.

You have to

actually be on site

for it to be lurking.
Which I am easily-established to NOT be, for quite a large period of time, to the point where on weekends it often will look like I've siteflaked.
This game started.
I wasn't here.
I got here as soon as I could.

Really.
Go into my post history.
Look at the timetables I typically post at.
Weekend posts are rare, sporadic at best.
Posting Monday Night late enough that it's technically 1+ am on Tuesdays, and similar time for Tuesdays technically being Wednesdays, and lateposting each weekday?
Extremely common. You can verify this going back at least two, three months. (Heck! Look at the times I posted during my modded game. When posting on the weekend, my updates were less effective and more brutal. I also deliberately orchestrated nights to avoid ending on the weekend save for the one that did, specifically because nights ending on the weekend were something I knew would be disastrous because I wouldn't be around to do anything more than just open the thread.)

I come when I come. I come as often as I can come. No, literally. I give up hours of my freetime every single day for mafia. If I gave more than I do, then I'd destroy myself. I am not omnipresent. As much as I'd like to be (especially when I get groundbreaking thoughts I want to post about

right. then

.), we don't have that tech yet, and work and such comes first.

And yet, in spite of this.
Entirely null.
Thing that is out of my control.
In multiple games.
This

exact

point.
Keeps.
coming.
up.

I don't like it. I hate it. But YES. Believe it or not. I have a real life, outside mafiascum, difficult as that may be to process given how much time I pour into here. You have my attention whenever I can give it. But I cannot. Literally cannot. Give it all the time.

[mastin2]

I wouldn't put it past her to WIFOM everyone by not spending tokens on herself.

It was basically far, FAR more important to get the right games than the right alignment as far as I was concerned. Getting into THIS game was my request, because I've been playing extensively in Large Themes. As town, I typically either die early (this game, duh), or live long enough to give the scum a beating. I also figured that if I got scum, it would be a goldmine. I had my strategy all laid out. I had everything planned out. I didn't tell my team what it was in the off chance I got town (because I was feeling scum, just

feeling

it. Haha. THAT worked out well ) so that I could use it in a future game instead, but basically, I knew that if I did well as scum in THIS game, if I brought my A-game, then I wouldn't just be showing off to the members of this game--I'd be demonstrating, proudly, for the first time in a full year, the full extent of my scumgame...to the ENTIRETY of mafiascum, effectively: I'd have fooled not 16 players, but 64, almost all of them being big-name players.

...And then I not only drew town, but dead woman walking town.

[mastin2]

@Bulba, how can you townread someone who has not posted?

By pretending he's me.




(Also, for the curious, yes, it is in fact 3 am as I post this. And no, I am not done with my site duties yet. And yes, I do get up at...oh, I believe tomorrow it's 10 AM. Might be 9, I forget; I'll figure it out when my alarm goes off. When I say I come when I can...I REALLY mean, I come when I can...and that the times I can come are frequently late at night, VERY late at night.)

[mastin2]

Bulb, if you're town then I appreciate the advice, but I currently think you're scum for a number of reasons, not limited to you telling me what to do.

I have words to say on this.
I don't want to say them right now.

[mastin2]

even Mastin thinks we should lynch Mastin!

Quite the opposite. Deadwoman by SCUM hands.

If I'm a deadwoman by town hands, we deserve a Tales-styled loss.

[mastin2]

I don't get what you mean here, so if you could explain in simple terms it would be much appreciated. I do also have a more detailed posts explaining my preference of choice.

Two gives double the protection on a person, extending the life of a successful protect.
A player, be it that person or an external benefactor, can claim it.

Plus ~reasons~.

[mastin2]

You think Zar/Tammy is possible scum on scum? :V

Tammy

should

be the first person to tell you I'd be a fool

not

to consider it.

Also, Cheetory is town.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm reading at the moment; don't tell my boss.

I also kinda want to pick

CDB

's brain (or maybe your team's collective brain), about the things you've guys talked about. Mostly, why did you make a post saying you guys discussed theory but didn't make mention of any theory?

I don't want to give the impression that we talked

lots

about theory, but while deciding on allocating tokens we discussed whether or not token-claiming would be a thing early on, for example, without coming to a consensus as to whether we thought it was likely or even helpful, especially in this game of all of them which has the most going on anyway. I didn't mention any specific theory because, as I said, we didn't settle on anything in particular that we felt needed to be brought up at the start of the game. But our brief discussions did make me open to the idea that other teams might have things they wanted to talk about, especially as I found my team-mates bringing up points of which I wouldn't have thought on my own.

At any rate, half of our team went away for the weekend just after this game's role PMs went out, so there wasn't a lot of time to talk about anything other than the abstract.