White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I like that Ankamius' scumhunting seems to mostly consist of one of his team mates having a theory that two obvtown people are scum together. I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least 2 scum in {Cheery Dog, Aeronaut, Ankamius}. The only tricksy decision now is who to lynch first since it would be such a waste if we mislynched D1.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.19

Aeronaut (4) - Zachrulez, Regfan, Oversoul, Llamarble
Psyche (2) - Antihero, theelkspeaks
Cheery Dog (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
ika (1) - Cheery Dog
Llamarble (1) - Ankamius
Oversoul (1) - BlueBloodedToffee
theelkspeaks (1) - Aeronaut

Not Voting (2) - ika, Psyche

With 13 alive, it will take 7 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, April 13, 2015, at 9:00 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-04-13 21:00:00).

[Cheery Dog]

ika wagon would be a waste, let's save him til we can read him better in a day or two.

What makes you think he's going to improve, the only changes that happen later are PoE, and improving reads in that fashion happen to everyone.

I do think the ikavote is something you're more likely to do as scum if you feel you're probably getting lynched. I don't really see what Cheery Dog thinks is going to come from that.

I'm hoping what comes will be a successful ika lynch. That's pretty obvious isn't it?

And you think that will happen just as a result of you placing a single unexplained vote?

The explanation may not be in a case format and it's not going to go into one, if people don't want to bother themselves with their own research, that's their own problem in understanding how there is a reason already in that post.

and he's still doing the same thing of not actually helping the gamestate.

are we goning to wagon me again? can i finally do slayers gambit?

Yes (maybe, I don't have a strong say though). No because you can't do that unless you're going to bus someone, in which case, yes, please go ahead.

[Regfan]

I'm mostly just not in a particular hurry to lynch anyone.

You're boring.

Oversouls Post 437 matches a lot more with what I remember of Town!Oversoul. Feeling far less paranoid about that slot being scum now. Disagree with his "Cheery stating he used a scum token is too ballsy to do as scum" though, think him being honest was the best move as both alignments there.

Oversoul, no indepth discussion with Empire ended up happened re; you, was side-tracked about other games and other reads, still waiting for his input/read on you because it's one he's really not commented much on and Empire specifically because in our team he's the player whose thought process / reads I can understand and agree with the best, p much trying to treat this game as a hydra (Except with posting restrictions). The games I had in mind were last TM and Sedilla although it's more a general impression from following several games of yours in the past as well). Will explain the BBT town-read tomorrow in more detail. Do kind of agree with Zach in that most of your statements of BBT in your catch up don't really mesh with your BBT scum-read at the end but I need to go over this again when I'm not half asleep, also the "ABR is coaching BBT into being aggressive" theory is wrong, have played with BBT a few times now and he's very aggressive re; his stances and theory beliefs, have had several arguments about meta with him from memory.

Bulb have crack-pot theories and reads actually fits very much with what I know of Town!Bulb, reading the theory in Post 466 (While obviously wrong) as town, want to know Bulbs updated thoughts on the theory when he gets around to this game though. Also want to know Anks reads himself.

To both Llamarble and Regfan, why did that comment seem weak to you (and your teammates)?

Empire thought the "game dynamic" comment was overly and purposefully vague and fit with scum leaving themselves an opening to jump back on later with the excuse of "I've always scum read X", he wanted me to get a detailed explanation from TTH and I didn't mind TTH's one in Post 193.

I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least 2 scum in {Cheery Dog, Aeronaut, Ankamius}. The only tricksy decision now is who to lynch first since it would be such a waste if we mislynched D1.

Aeronauts the D1 lynch, he is still obv as fuck scum and both Mina and Empire agree with me on this which means he needs to hang NOW since Mina never agrees with a vote being actually down (Pls don't kill me Mina). I think the Ank scum read is wrong, it's more likely Aero/CD/Psyche(?).

[Regfan]

Jesus that was a mess of a post. Just spewing my thoughts out really at this point, might as well get it all out before I crash I guess.

Llama, BBT, Ika (I know people aren't as sure as I am about this but I really don't find see him constantly suggesting the'd play "slayers gambit" as mafia nor do I see the GIF interaction type posts coming from him as scum, think peoples hesitancy is largely due to the lack of content/larger posts which I dont think will ever come from him), Elk (His skype reads discussion post is Seriously Town) and Zach are town and never ever to be lynched, like ever ever or there will be words.

I think CES (My team is still telling me to be cautious here though but I've liked most of his reads/thoughts so far and still think his "former glory", "would settle with a decent win after my last town games" type comments are genuine), Oversoul and Ank (I'm reeeeeally not getting peoples scum reads here) are town. I had a town read on the TTH/Anti slot but Antis avoidance of this thread has killed most of that.

Aeronaut is ObvScum and CD is SuperLikely to be scum too.

Really just need to spend more time figuring out Psyche/Anti more now but feeling much better about my reads and the gamestate now then I was a few days ago.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Really just need to spend more time figuring out Psyche/Anti more now but feeling much better about my reads and the gamestate now then I was a few days ago.

Anti is probably town. It's hard to exclude the possibility of Psychescum but Ank just looks that much scummier.

I would suggest you look at Ank with an eye of using team mates' opinions in lieu of content/scumhunting. Look at #257 and how he has absolutely no follow-up; he doesn't connect it to anything; he doesn't push against the elkwagon (when he makes his next post, the elkwagon still exists but he's asking Cheery a silly question). If #257 is true, I would think that pretty relevant, but he seems content just to have shared his team mates' opinions. In #466, he does at least criticize Bulbazak's theory on two points but note that his criticism seems to unquestionably accept bulba's scumhunting method; it feels more like he's trying to extrapolate what bulbazak would think than come up with his own stuff; he also doesn't seem to connect bulbazak's theory in any way to any reads he might have - he manages to go an entire theory of you being scum without ever giving his opinion on your play and his conclusion doesn't even seem to distinguish between you and 'marble even though he's voting for 'marble and given reasons for doing so previously.

[Ankamius]

ika: Scum, mainly for these two posts.

ok so does soemone have a town case for elk or can we like lynch that slot with fire now?

cus im talking with GIF and the others and they see no reason for it to be town

ok im proxing GIF here:

@Anka, gif had an epiphany and thinks elk could be town and to sort llam is to just have ffery into game here as well

pedit: get her talking now

The bolded was made in response to me bluntly saying that I wasn't going to vote for elk.

---

I'm really not liking CES for #475. Either he's town and just completely missed why I posted that theory somehow, or he's scum trying to spin it to his own advantage. I don't see town purposely seeing the whole picture and thinking that was the extent of my scumhunting.

Although I will say that the reason I only answered questions yesterday is because I was basically dead on my feet. I HAD reads, but never posted them in the thread.

I still like Psyche for scum; BBT is virtually conftown if he does indeed flip town, although I'm townreading the slot pretty hard anyway.

I keep ISOing Cheery Dog and I townread his overall tone every time I do so. Lynching him based on token usage is just not going to work as a case for me.

[Ankamius]

Really just need to spend more time figuring out Psyche/Anti more now but feeling much better about my reads and the gamestate now then I was a few days ago.

Anti is probably town. It's hard to exclude the possibility of Psychescum but Ank just looks that much scummier.

I would suggest you look at Ank with an eye of using team mates' opinions in lieu of content/scumhunting. Look at #257 and how he has absolutely no follow-up; he doesn't connect it to anything; he doesn't push against the elkwagon (when he makes his next post, the elkwagon still exists but he's asking Cheery a silly question). If #257 is true, I would think that pretty relevant, but he seems content just to have shared his team mates' opinions. In #466, he does at least criticize Bulbazak's theory on two points but note that his criticism seems to unquestionably accept bulba's scumhunting method; it feels more like he's trying to extrapolate what bulbazak would think than come up with his own stuff; he also doesn't seem to connect bulbazak's theory in any way to any reads he might have - he manages to go an entire theory of you being scum without ever giving his opinion on your play and his conclusion doesn't even seem to distinguish between you and 'marble even though he's voting for 'marble and given reasons for doing so previously.

1. I attempted to try using that way of thinking for this game when it initially came up; that's why it feels so jagged. I completely abandoned it for my own reads and will be leaving it to Bulbazak.
2. I've mentioned that I don't think the theory as it is works anymore. You're also completely ignoring that I was specifically asked to give that theory in the thread; it was never meant to give any specific contribution from my own end.

UNVOTE: Llamarble

[BlueBloodedToffee]

441 - Response;

3) OK, but you brought forward a few points for elk!Scum, which seemed to suggest he should be stronger than null-scum. What you have said in this post also allows you to revisit your 'scum read' at a later date as you have left it wide open.

4) You 'may not have been

as vocal

', I don't think you were vocal at all. So, you wasn't happy with Zach's play (does this translate into a scum read or not?) but you didn't want to express this opinion. I don't understand why you would play like that.

5) My point is it's scummy.

6) You actually said that post "

reads really town to me

". So

really town

doesn't really translate into a scum read.

7/8) Me and my team had a good laugh about ABR scum-coaching me. It was good fun.

ABR also said he is hyper-aggressive as town and much less so as scum. But self-meta so whatever.

9) What you're essentially doing here is saying that I have been tunneling and this is another misrep. I have not been hyper aggressive over any one point. I think this is pretty evident from a quick glance of my ISO.

10) You accused me of talking about theory with

everyone

. This is most definitely

not

what I have been doing. I'm not denying I haven't spent time talking about the dreaded tokens, because I have, and from reading it appears to have been a waste of time. But I have certainly done much, much more than that.

To accuse me of not contributing is kind of funny given what you have done so far this game.

I'm not sure why people are suddenly town reading Oversoul because he made a wall of quotes. Did anyone actually read what he wrote? So much of it is filled with fluff.

[Oversoul]

Oversouls Post 437 matches a lot more with what I remember of Town!Oversoul. Feeling far less paranoid about that slot being scum now. Disagree with his "Cheery stating he used a scum token is too ballsy to do as scum" though, think him being honest was the best move as both alignments there.

Oversoul, no indepth discussion with Empire ended up happened re; you, was side-tracked about other games and other reads, still waiting for his input/read on you because it's one he's really not commented much on and Empire specifically because in our team he's the player whose thought process / reads I can understand and agree with the best, p much trying to treat this game as a hydra (Except with posting restrictions). The games I had in mind were last TM and Sedilla although it's more a general impression from following several games of yours in the past as well). Will explain the BBT town-read tomorrow in more detail. Do kind of agree with Zach in that most of your statements of BBT in your catch up don't really mesh with your BBT scum-read at the end but I need to go over this again when I'm not half asleep, also the "ABR is coaching BBT into being aggressive" theory is wrong, have played with BBT a few times now and he's very aggressive re; his stances and theory beliefs, have had several arguments about meta with him from memory.

Why would he even say that he took tokens to be scum? That seems pointless, as either alignment.

Fair. I'm sorry that it gives you that impression but Tammy and I agree that something is odd about BBT's aggression. I can see it being play style differences as people always find me scummy for my playstyle, especially if he likens himself to Thor who I always find at least somewhat scummy.

Looking through BBT's iso, I can't find any mention of his teammates' opinions though. I guess that makes my theory less strong. My theory is too sweet to let it die like that though.

BBT, do any of your teammates have any opinions on this game?

pedit: oh I just saw this, I'll respond later tonight

[BlueBloodedToffee]

459 - Llamarble, what exactly is 'quality' from Oversoul's wall of quotes? Effort is not indicative of alignment. It looks great on the surface, which it seems is the depth you have read it, so let me know what you think when you have a closer look.

On this point, I hope people aren't just skimming the discussion between Oversoul and myself. I know a lot of people do this because ~egos~ but, you know, he's scum so I need votes on him.

466 - I kind of want to town read Ank for this post. Mainly, just because someone on his team was thinking along the same lines as me and it doesn't make me feel as crazy as when I first suggested it and got shot down. Whilst I am currently town reading both Llamarble and Regfan, it's always there, niggling at the back of my mind that my initial gut impression was right.

Ank,

"This is the biggest thing that gave me pause to whether this theory was in the right ballpark or not, since BBT had already basically proven that he wasn't going to allow shenanigans like this to adjust his reads. It would've been a foolhardy scum tactic."

Can you elaborate on this? I don't think I have any sort of pulling power in this game and the majority of the player list agreed with what Llamarble was saying. If they were scum it would not be foolhardy because it's quite clearly worked.

468 - Ika, why do you always think I am scared of you? Let me tell you, if your wagon picks up, I'll be on it quicker than you can say 'Vote BBT'. As it stands, I don't think it will happen and I'm not wasting the effort trying to get a lurker lynched, because it's damn near impossible on this site.

479 - Regfan, you don't see scum using 'I'm just acting scummy so people will vote me' as an excuse for their play...really? It seems a perfectly valid reason for scum to use to excuse their play.

Can you elaborate on your Ank town read as well?

481 - Ank, why are you hard town reading me?

484 - My team mates haven't really been following this game. Titus is kind of keeping up with it but all she is doing is continually screaming at me that Ika is town (which I'm obviously ignoring) and I asked if any of them had played with Psyche to help me get a read on him and not much came from that either.

[Llamarble]

The biggest problem I had with Oversoul early is that he wasn't really doing the work; even if you don't like his content much he is at least putting some effort into the game now. I don't subscribe to 'effort is a null tell.' It is at the very least a good sign for him. You're right that I need to read it more closely as soon as possible though.

This is the post where I go into the things that could go wrong so we keep them in mind.
It will be pretty difficult to convince me that any of BBT Elk (and probably Zach) are scum.

#1 The biggest problem we could have right now is if CES and/or Regfan are scum. Regfan finding CES town for "reclaiming my glory days" comments seems strange to me; if there is ONE statement I could easily fake as scum it's the "here's what I was hoping to do as town" statement: "please let me do my thing; I really want to play a spectacular town game here to start a new streak of crushing town wins and contend for a paragon repeat." Regfan and CES can both play very well as scum; even if it's not Regfan's favorite he will certainly at least provide reads / reasons / expected content (I would expect him to townread me on cue there as either alignment). I wish I had more secondary towntells from Regfan. Regfan's primary targets so far (Elk / Aero) are both people I would see as good targets if I were scum and they were town. Regfan + Cheery or Ank and Psyche or TTH are believable, or CES with Regfan / lurkers. Regfan's treatment of AH is also worrisome (happy to townread him while everyone else is but aware he's not doing anything). I have a hard time believing this game won't be an easy town win if CES + Regfan + me are all town and all agree, so please please don't give total control to Regfan / CES if we haven't lynched scum by D3 and BBT / me eat the first 2 NKs.

#2 The fact that ika / Psyche are doing nothing but getting totally ignored sucks for town and could cause problems down the road (scum can lynch them easily or if they're scum they may manage to coast further). Psyche, ika, AH, Aero, Cheery - Whichever of you are town need to get in here and do things. We MUST lynch scum early or else half our townleaders will be dead and the other half will be untrustworthy (or trusted scumz with lynch-control). If you do nothing D1, you make it harder to lynch scum D1 and those bad scenarios become much more likely. I think this game is decided before D3 starts so if you want to win, you should play now. Are we making a mistake lynching Aeronaut today? Is Ankamius town or is he a buddy Regfan is protecting? Are Regfan and / or CES just agreeing with me and voting whichever of my scumreads are town? Am I as obviously town as I say I am (correct answer: yes)? Is there actual substance behind all the weird AH townreads? Why is everyone content to table ika for later; is he just always worthless to town? Are Oversoul's walls good? Who was the scum voting for Elk? Is the Aero wagon an all-town wagon? There are so many interesting questions in this game - wtf is the point of you being here if you're not going to try to figure the game out?

I guess those two are the biggest risks I can think of right now. I really do think we have this in the bag if CES and Regfan do turn out to be town and we're not "This game is so easy har har har" laughing our way into a terrible situation D3 because half the town isn't playing the game.

[Llamarble]

Aeronaut is posting other places while half-dead.
Psyche's last post in this game is midway through the second page of their recent posts.
ika is a lot more active elsewhere too and when he has bothered to post in this game his posts have been complete non-participation.
AH at least isn't more active elsewhere, but when you swap games, the point isn't so that your team can neglect one of the games totally.

[Psyche]

I hold my posts in this game to a higher standard.

[Aeronaut]

V/LA Until Wednesday

Dealing with a developing family crisis, as well as a shit case of flu. My team is aware. Sorry.

[ika]

maybe because llarm this game is stupid and that everyone is just circling dicussions abotu random crap that has no intrest to me....

i like how BBT is ignoring a player (titus) who has played 10 times more with me then he has way to be a teamamte

[theelkspeaks]

ika's play here feels kinda like some of his play in Hilariously Unbalanced 2, where he was town (in a hydra with mollie) - in that game he went back and forth between super-argumentative and the way he's playing here.

that's a decent part of why I think his wagon isn't great.

[Llamarble]

Well so far my call to action is a smashing success. P. edit: at least ika's post gives me more comfort about letting them live today.
Anyway, I did look into Oversoul's posts. Still think he's town.

Zach was the type of person to fairly exclusively only like to play town. I'm hoping he is still that type of person!

Wagon!

This has a happy-to-be-town aura; also he 'hopes' Zach is still someone who likes town as that would indicate tokens and make the game easier to figure out.

199 - Oversoul, you're now voting Elk when you just previously stated that you don't see much scumminess from him? Nah.

Yes...
Wagons are a good thing, especially in a game as murky as this.

Does that surprise you?
For the record, Regfan's point is valid. Elk just... doesn't seem to be doing much of... anything.

Stuff

This isn't as helpful as I hoped it would be.

I feel like scummersoul would be more concerned about pulling a 180 and voting a slot he didn't see much against. Makes sense that Oversoul wanted to help the game progress; that's much of the reason for the timing of my switch to Aero, but it sucks that Aero is going V/LA now. The "this isn't as helpful" comment still sketches me out.

Although, I wish the preference picking between town/scum was cut and dry as it was last time. Made for an easier game. Would make me feel better about Zach's activity.

Seems like a genuine statement about mild frustration trying to get a read on Zach.
I just remembered - I think I picked scum roles in previous team mafia due to preferring this setup and in order to cash in on my known town preference in games I cared about (winning the games we rolled scum in would make our team v. likely to win TM as a whole). Now I play less often and it was more important to me to get a town game and see if I could stomp some faces. Also my obvtown factor has gotten too strong to the point where a lot of the eyes on this game would catch me as scum pretty easily.

Tammy talked about tokens and marble and other peoples' reads on marble

These are the things I would expect her to talk about, even if the slot is scum here, but it does show teammates putting some time into reading the game so it's certainly not a negative.

"Cheery may have used a scum token"

I'll solve this question for you, I did attempt to use a scum token, still rolled town.

Yeah, I actually don't feel like a scum Cheery Dog would say this. It's too ballsy, high risk and low reward. There is very little good in confirming that you spent tokens on scum in a game like this where you cannot confirm yourself as town at some point.

Meh. I did already point out problems with this argument. Small negative dose of townpoints if Cheery does turn out scum.

why was it purposefully vague?

I don't think I ever responded to this. I thought it was Llamarble being cheeky - at that point he never explicitly said he spent it to be town. Cheekiness is something I look for in people who are comfortable being scum. For a long time, Llamarble had one of the highest win rates as scum, so I just attributed his win rate to his liking scum.

I think this statement is more likely from town - cheekiness being a tell for stronger scum players shows some nuanced effort to figure out the game and willingness to engage with a potentially dangerous townie.

stuff about cheery

I like this post a lot. Although I will say I think the point about the list isn't as strong as Llamarble thinks it is.

Favorable until cheery turns up scum at which point it's just okay.

stuff

I think this is the towniest post thus far into the game.
Looking forward to when TTH and Antihero switch, I think Antihero's emotional appeal rings true. I know I would not want to willingly switch into a role that is scum. Then again, that is just me.

"This is the towniest post of the game" is an award I think town hand out more often than scum. Every time I point something like this and the meta adjusts I have to come up with new tells to replace them, but I've never really been one to hide the things I notice. Maybe when I write a program that analyzes scumprobabilities I'll start concealing the tells I use...

Jesus Christ.

This post reads really town to me on my second read through of the game. This is the type of frustration I think I would feel at this point talking to another player who doesn't see what I am seeing.

Okay, others have pointed this out already, but it is still positive contribution and the wording sounds forthright.

2Q - I admit up to very recently, I haven't been a diligent reader. I mostly wanted to provide momentum to leading wagons to see how the game progressed.

Now that I think about it, I don't think anyone has really "cracked" my playstyle even though I am very upfront about how I play. :shrug:

Introspection, trying to help out while less caught up. Good.

To both Llamarble and Regfan, why did that comment seem weak to you (and your teammates)?

We read something differently than OVS and this bugs him. Good sign - scum expect town to see things differently and if Regfan and I are misreading any townies, scumsoul would be strongly incentivized to just let it happen. Revisit if TTHscum.

Man that reread took a long ass time.

I'll bet it did. It's really hard (at least for me) as scum to put a ton of hours into a catchup post unless you're designing it to make you town forever / trying to avoid some significant danger. Don't get the sense OVS was trying to do one of those things. Sustained heavy analysis as scum just feels so pointless when all you need to do is not get lynched and maybe steer things toward teammates.

BB&T is mainly a pet theory that I think has been fairly supported in this game. I think he is being coached by ABR. I haven't had the time to read BB&T's meta (would appreciate if the team Cabd/Empire is on could help investigate), but when I think of hyper-aggressive on a single point I think of ABR. By being this aggressive and sticking to a theoretical reason to disagree with everyone, BB&T can LOOK active without actually scumhunting people for their play.

While I find the coaching thing derpy, I at least understand where he's going with BBTscum latching onto something he can truthfully attack even though he's scum (token-discussion).

Ank is like Aeronaut, he is coasting in my opinion. I'm giving him slight benefit of the doubt for not having time, but the one post he made about me and Llamarble just felt off. From a player as established as Ank, I was expecting much more than the cursory comments he gave for those reads.

This is a viable explanation for why town Oversoul makes the 'expected more' comment I didn't like.

So yeah, I feel pretty good about Oversoul town, though there are some associative things worth revisiting after a couple flips.

[ika]

so BBT when will you start listenign to others?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I have a hard time believing this game won't be an easy town win if CES + Regfan + me are all town and all agree, so please please don't give total control to Regfan / CES if we haven't lynched scum by D3 and BBT / me eat the first 2 NKs.

Yarr. If all three of us are town, we should definitely held to the standard of winning the game within 3 lynches.

[Zachrulez]

Meh. TTH had reads and presence but scum can produce "this doesn't fit" easily enough. I get why CES 128 would annoy him but how does it look scummy? Overall I don't see a lot secondary towntells or a high level of engagement with the game.
All AH has done is say "I wouldn't replace into a scum slot" which has various problems and read TTH's ISO / comment on his opinions.

Would really appreciate somebody who has TTH / AH in their upper tier of towniness making sense of that for me.

I didn't really care for the "I wouldn't replace into a scum slot" coupled with the statement that he would basically be a conduit for TTH. If TTH coached Anti heavily enough, it would seem possible the dislike for scum could be overcome.

It's not the only possible reason for the swap, so I'll just let it go for now but just putting it out there that I don't like it.

Further I wish that Anti had more of a presence in this game so I could have things to actually try to read him off of other than that one point.

I like that Ankamius' scumhunting seems to mostly consist of one of his team mates having a theory that two obvtown people are scum together. I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least 2 scum in {Cheery Dog, Aeronaut, Ankamius}. The only tricksy decision now is who to lynch first since it would be such a waste if we mislynched D1.

Actually feel like this is a really good lynch slate to attempt to win the game outright with. (Spoiler, we should burn Aeronaut first.)

I also have lost interest in lynching elk for the forseeable future. If I haven't made it explicit enough already I don't really have any interest in lynching BBT anymore either.

[Oversoul]

Didn't get a chance to get to this tonight sorry

[Regfan]

Oversoul, 1) It's been elaborated on already why CD would claim his token as scum; he was already attaining suspicion/focus on potentially using one, him coming out and claiming it outright gives him control of the situation and cuts out all speculation and again I don't think he's one to try and hide or keep something like that secret regardless of alignment - it's how is playstyle is. 2) Just want to confirm this; your stance based of posts at the end of your catch up on BBT personally was town but Tammy/your team mates had a theory / were leaning towards him being scum that was coached, is that right? If so how come you threw him into the scum pile rather than null-scum or even null-town? That's the bit I'm not following at all.

Anti is probably town.

It's hard to exclude the possibility of Psychescum but Ank just looks that much scummier.

Though that too initially (Moreso due to TTHs play and Antis earlier reaction to it being stated he'd replaced into a scum slot) but Empire also being unnerved by him not popping in with any real reads or content since (Albeit it seems his inactivity is site-wide) and me not really having that many scum-reads other than CD/Aero means that my weak town read there is very possibly wrong. Also on a reread I thought his mention of Aero in Post 392 fit very much like how I'd expect scum to treat a partner in this sort of setup "X is a big topic, I'll take a stance

later

" while not even chiming in remotely then.

As for your element on Ank, I find the "All 3 lead wagons are on town" theory to match his teams "Llama/Regfan!Scum" theory. Also not sure if you've mised it but he did state at the end of his post

"I'm not convinced that either of your slots is town per se, but I'm less convinced that you two are scum with this strategy in mind at the bare minimum."

which is taking a stance albeit a fairly waffly one. Sure, I'd love more reads from him, sure I think his theory is crack-pot and makes little sense (I find this comes from town more than scum though especially how he did it) but I am flat out not seeing the scum-reads on him.

I still like Psyche for scum; BBT is virtually conftown if he does indeed flip town

, although I'm townreading the slot pretty hard anyway.

Bolded is going to have to be explained for me.

479 - Regfan, you don't see scum using 'I'm just acting scummy so people will vote me' as an excuse for their play...really? It seems a perfectly valid reason for scum to use to excuse their play. Can you elaborate on your Ank town read as well?

It's moreso that I don't see him intentionally attempting to draw focus to himself in an environment like team mafia as mafia in the manner he's doing it, I think he'd be content to lurk into the background. Town read on Ank is weak and not something my team is backing me on but I find the moon-logic of Bulbs theory to read town, I liked his explanation behind the Llama and CES scum reads in Post 238 even if I don't agree with either, same goes for Post 255, I can understand someone who hasn't played with Llama finding his change of reads (Which he does a lot) as scummy.

[Regfan]

Regfan finding CES town for "reclaiming my glory days" comments seems strange to me; if there is ONE statement I could easily fake as scum it's the "here's what I was hoping to do as town" statement: "please let me do my thing; I really want to play a spectacular town game here to start a new streak of crushing town wins and contend for a paragon repeat."

Empire wanted me to tell you that he read both of those lines as sincere too and are nearly the sole reason he's not uber paranoid about CES's play and playstyle here not fitting the old meta he has for him as either town or scum - he's still finding it weird how forthright CES is about his thought process here. Mina thinks the mention of it in Post 301 is alignment-neutral given the "or draw scum" element and admittedly she has a point with that one but I still like Post 49 and Post 384.

[Regfan]

Aero scum flip (P much a given now) pretty much entirely clears Elk and makes Ika very likely town (Sadly had both of those reads already).

Llama, do you make much of Aero responding to me and ignoring the fact that Zachs voting him?