NY 183 - Apocalypse Mafia

[Ricastle]

The ways Elusive, Rubicon and Grib are reading each other is pretty much purely meta-based and isn't breaking the boundaries of town and mafia. Putting someone acting pretty weirdly in this game like Grib as solid town just because you know the difference between their town game and mafia game when there is probably an SK (or at least a third party) in this game is what I'm seeing as very risky right now.

(This all sounded far better in my head...)

[Garmr]

The ways Elusive, Rubicon and Grib are reading each other is pretty much purely meta-based and isn't breaking the boundaries of town and mafia. Putting someone acting pretty weirdly in this game like Grib as solid town just because you know the difference between their town game and mafia game when there is probably an SK (or at least a third party) in this game is what I'm seeing as very risky right now.

(This all sounded far better in my head...)

Did I miss the mod notes or something but where is the evidence of a third party?

[Ricastle]

I think it's very likely considering the game size, personally. 18 players is too many for merely 4 mafia to be adequate and too few for 5. Maybe if they had a Godfather I guess, but I'd sooner suspect there's a third party.

[Kitz]

Kitz, you were asleep for 36 hours?

If I'm too physically sick and tired, I can sleep that long.
But nay, I didn't sleep that long this time.

@All : Meta sucks.
@Setup : We should not discuss that until at least a single role has flipped.

[PeaceBringer]

seeing no reason to vary from the current vote...

[Ricastle]

@Setup : We should not discuss that until at least a single role has flipped.

It's more about making sense of Grib's actions than setup spec. Do you think Grib would make sense here as an SK?

[Kitz]

Do you think Grib would make sense here as an SK?

Maybe. I'm reading him as potential neutral based on this.

Also, Errant: I have a lot of nullreads, which I will move onto either after Kitz starts posting, or if some of them start acting really scummy.

Why would one have nullreads in this fashion?
If everyone's a nullread and I come to be read as a town, would all the nullreads become an actual read? What if I were scum, would all nullreads become a read?

This seems rather influencial, and I read it more like "I actually have reads, but I prefer to keep quiet until some posts so I can change my reads appropriately".
And the fact that I'm picked randomly for the sake of "just because", I'm pretty sure if I wasn't picked then another would have been treated the same way.

It could be one of those meta thingies and playstyles tho, he seems rather agressive, but that behavior pretty much prods as neutralish.

[elusive]

Garmr, I suggest you read my posts carefully before getting antsy - the word "and" is vitally important.

Also what does chainsaw mean again? I've seen it elsewhere but I forgot exactly.

I feel like scum have most to lose from people town reading each other or forming a town block. Or the last game where Rubicon, Grib, and I were a town block it was quite nice not withstanding the game results themselves. Meta is quite useful actually. I won my first game on here (see my completed games on my now active Wiki) due to an awesome co-town player and meta dives.

As for Grib, he does have a different meta as 3p which again can be prodded. I don't see him as a major concern as of now and the cases against him are largely like the first early day cases based on leaping to conclusions or trying to find anything. Which can be useful, since sometimes a fake wagon and who jumps on it is just as illuminating as any other first day tactics.

I am hoping to see more from the people I pointed out earlier. The "posting to post that I will be posting later on" is one of my pet peeves and something that usually ignites some laser focus.

It's nice to see you too Kitz

[Ricastle]

Ugh. I'm really unconfident in nearly every read I've got so far. I've managed to scrounge together a full set of reads, but they're terrible and I probably won't post them unless someone insists on it.

VOTE: Grib

This is my best scumread for the foreseeable future. If Grib flips non-mafia, Rubicon & elusive are probably town. If he flips mafia then the opposite.

Kitz, are you leaning towards a more harmless or more negative role with your neutral read? (I assume by neutral you mean third party rather than null)

Elusive: Thing is, how can you be sure everyone in a townbloc

is

town on Day 1? Obviously, if it was likely that was the case, I'd have no problems. I just can't see it in Grib though. Who's your top scumread?

Chainsawing is defending a player by attacking their attacker.

[davesaz]

I fell asleep between trying to read Rubicon and PointYbagelS. This was a function of it being after midnight my time.
PointYbagelS is coming across as genuine, which makes me lean town.

[davesaz]

Ricastle, isn't it a little early to associate people merely by their posting? When I see someone seriously instigating a townblock, I usually question if they are mafia trying to fit in by friending town without individual buddying. Though I have not gone back to games where it happened to see if that was an accurate read. Might not be a bad project... Note, I don't think of less serious / joking townblocks as alignment indicative at all. I don't remember offhand the tone of this one.

[Grib]

Wow.

I prod Kitz and people respond by 3P hunting. That totally makes sense in a closed setup from a town POV.

[Ricastle]

The townbloc is serious for sure. It's almost entirely meta-based, which makes me confident Rubicon/elusive know what they're talking about in regards to town/mafia Grib. (This is also partially why I'm SK-reading him.) If Grib flipped mafia, I would seriously be questioning how both Rubicon and elusive, players that are supposed to know him very well, could fuck up like that. This is another reason I think Grib's SK, as I'm townreading them both strongly right now.

I agree on BagelS.

Pedit: I never stopped scumreading you, you know. Rubicon & elusive effectively putting the mafia case on you to rest did halt me temporarily, but I just couldn't believe you're town with how you've played up till now. SK is the only other option that makes sense.

And didn't you say it was likely there was a third party in this game earlier, as well?

[Grib]

Yes.

That doesn't mean 3P hunting on D1 based on a guess isn't dumb.

[Grib]

Kitz: I don't know what you're going on about. Nullreads are people I don't have reads on, and they will presumably be resolved when they post more. Anything else you interpret beyond that is wrong or reaching.

[Grib]

Ricastle: Like, I'd have less of a problem with you 3P hunting me if a 3P was confirmed to exist, be it stated in the OP or revealed via multiple Night kills without a Vig claim.

I do have 3P meta that Rubicon is not ignorant about.

[Ricastle]

I'm not SK-reading you

because

I think there's an SK in this game, I'm SK-reading you because I don't think you're town or mafia, but I am pretty sure you're scum.

But hey. Would you rather I mafia-read you instead?

[Grib]

I'm not SK-reading you

because

I think there's an SK in this game, I'm SK-reading you because I don't think you're town or mafia, but I am pretty sure you're scum.

But hey. Would you rather I mafia-read you instead?

I'd rather you read me correctly.

[PointYBagelS]

I wanted to jump on one of these wagons but davesaz continues to be wholly unconvincing. He has not posted anything he wasn't asked for. This comes off as scum pseudo-lurking to allow the town to continue their line of thought. I just can't see any motivation to do that as town, but it seems scummy regardless of grib's/kitz's alignment.

Ricastle suggesting that grib is sk bothers me. SK hunting is a terrible idea before any flips and he should know that.

As for the proto- town bloc, I'm willing to give it a chance for today because if there are at least 2 town on it, I would expect scum to be found within in short order, and I can't imagine multiple scum being so ballsy as to declare a townbloc like that.

Skold continues to be conspiculosly absent, and bewilderbeast, megalo, klingon, and boon have posted what essentially amounts to nothing. If we let people get away with lurking, scum can sit back and watch town lynch each other.

[Errantparabola]

Okay I'll explain why the Boons wagon was a town move. Sure, it was partly influenced by outside factors but the fact is that it was the original driving force behind discussion and early on what would lead to scumhunting. That wagon is, as Nero said, a "low risk high reward" move for town.

I don't really understand 316 logic. Could you explain why you don't think that Grib is mafia but you think he's scum? What differentiates between sk and mafia behavior? I feel like Ricastle is trying to push the SK point with little to go on.

[Nero Cain]

any town block with grib in it is a bad townblock that needs dismantling.

Town block = Town circle?

yes

I want to see something other then Boon from you.

yeah, that's what I'm doing; talking about nothing but Boon.

Anyone who's played firsthand with Nero?

I've played with a good chunk of this playerlist including Ellusive so I'm not sure why she'd say she hasn't.

Boonskies reacted very poorly to the RVS thingy

THANK YOU!

the wierd thing is that no one tried to defend him

but this part is untrue. All of Grib, Elusive, ricastle, garmr, meglo and kbomber sorta defended him in one way or the other.

[Nero Cain]

Anyways, gut says scum are in

Klingoncelt
Kitz
jbomber732
bewilderbeast
Garmr
Megalo
Skold
Ricastle
Boonskiies

[Ricastle]

I am not SK hunting. I think Grib is scum, and right now him being SK is the only thing that matches up with my train of thought. The most important thing is I think he's scum.

Strictly pursuing a mafia-read on him would have been far more stupid, in my opinion.

Behaviour isn't what I'm mainly going on, here. Circumstance and meta are. If not for that, I'd still be calling him mafia. As I said, the point is that he's

scum

. Anything beyond that is variable specifics.

[Nero Cain]

So you think he's scummy, what exactly makes you think not team scum?

[Errantparabola]

I am not SK hunting. I think Grib is scum, and right now him being SK is the only thing that matches up with my train of thought. The most important thing is I think he's scum.

Strictly pursuing a mafia-read on him would have been far more stupid, in my opinion.

Behaviour isn't what I'm mainly going on, here. Circumstance and meta are. If not for that, I'd still be calling him mafia. As I said, the point is that he's

scum

. Anything beyond that is variable specifics.

OKAY please can you explain WHAT is the difference between your mafia reads and your SK reads?