Mini 470 - Some Guys Are Trying To Kill You (done)

[Erotomachia]

All right, I finished reading. In terms of votes, I think Jenter's at 4, Gatorguy's at 2.

I could easily see Gatorguy as scum or as a townie who's slipped up a couple times. For now I'm leaning more toward townie, and would be more comfortable with a Jenter lynch. He's been lying low the whole game.

FOS: Jimmy R

because his posts are making me feel pretty cautious. After some people questioned he vote on Streeflo, he unvoted and has quickly transitioned to a vote on Jenter. I don't think he liked being in the limelight.

[Streeflo]

FOS: Jimmy R

because his posts are making me feel pretty cautious. After some people questioned he vote on Streeflo, he unvoted and has quickly transitioned to a vote on Jenter.

I don't think he liked being in the limelight.

I'll echo this with the emphasis mine. You seemed hesitant to change your FoS into a vote on Jenter until after GatorGuy joined in on the bandwagon.

I'll reread Jenter soon.

[Oman]

I made this comment earlier, about reluctance to put on a third vote. I'm not sure if it is a town move or a scum move.

[Jimmy R]

FOS: Jimmy R

because his posts are making me feel pretty cautious. After some people questioned he vote on Streeflo, he unvoted and has quickly transitioned to a vote on Jenter. I don't think he liked being in the limelight.

The questioning of my vote and the people saying I misquoted Streeflo made me re-read again. And they were probably right. I wouldn't say I misquoted him because I never mentioned anything about Zakk, which was what got focused on but I was probably a little hasty on Streeflo.

This also explains my reluctance to drop my vote on Jenter, didn't want to make that mistake again but as you can see, I've had my FOS on him for a while.

[Oman]

I don't think his reluctance was an overly town move. By which I mean, his interest was to not make a mistake and look scummy, which isn't scummy nor town in itself. I think this will be a neutral mark in my book.

[Jimmy R]

In my book reluctance to vote is generally a town move and in this case it definitely was for me. Didn't want to get on Jenter without re-reading...And of course I didn't want to make myself look scummy, because we can't afford to be lynching another Townie at this point.

[Oman]

Ah but Jimmy, this is where it gets terrible. A scum is much more likely to FoS then vote and then claim the moral high ground of "I don't want a quicklynch". As I said, I don't think that action was scummy from you, neutral is as good as it gets.

Also

we can't afford to be lynching

another

townie at this point

Another?

[Jimmy R]

Oops, sorry got confused there. Take that as can't afford the death of another townie at this point. It was early

[Oman]

Sure was

[Jenter Brolincani]

Do you want me to claim? I will if that is actually what you want.

Very interesting game (so far, any way).

Jenter's PBPA; Gator and Niv... (mostly gator)

I may be gone the next 5-7 days so please don't replace me.

Soup asks him whether he has a powerole he doen't want to lose, then...

hey, he may be holding his spot in the game for a legit reason. when he comes back, i would like to question him on his absence, but trying to start a wagon on someone who is away is pointless. he could get to -2 but then we wait for the claim. i think you are fishing way too much on this. again, imo going away is not a scumtell ever. unless you are lurkjing, and even then its iffy, couse i know people think it is a scumtell, but town do it quite ovted as well. Unvote Niv, FoS soupfly. i really think that pressuring an absent player is very bad. question him when he comes back

Soup put 1 vote on Gator, and didn't even encourage others to follow suit. Baad logic here, 1 vote is not the start of a bandwagon, it was probabaly just a bit of pressure.

Niv and Gator skirmish over soup voting gator when he's not here.

Gator;

soupfly wrote:
vote: gatorguy91

we just lost our cop on the first night. why you so anxious to hold onto your place in the game despite being gone for 5-7 days?

Woah, call off your dogs, dude. I came to this site to play mafia, isn't that

what I'm supposed to be doing?

FoS: Soupfly for having a dumb reason for a legitimate vote.

Well do you expect him to have a full casefile from the random vote stage? It was as good a tell as any you may get on page 1...

Niv keeps his vote on soup, Oman votes and unvotes.

Gator;

My Defense is that Soupfly had no evidence to Go on and just decided to say i was
scum. I saw that as dumb, and stated as so, and that's scummy? Then Again, What's not scummy theese days?

He had a minor scumtell, how do you expect him to have more on page 1? Just say anything you feel the need to say, and move on. Just 'that's dumb' won't stand up here...

A little bit of anaylasis:

Soupfly is obviously eager to point his finger at someone, however he seems to be playing not too well. I'll keep my FoS on him.

Jenter Didn't like my reasoning, his points seem to be short. I'm not very suspicious of him.

Oman Pressure voted me, which wasn't very scummy and is a nice routine for finding scum. After he unvoted Soupfly, which seemed to be a popular thing to do at the point.

Niv has been protecting me, which is part of certain scum strategy (Befriend a townie) But I'm not all that suspicious of him.

This is notable and possibly the best reason for NOT looking at a Gator-Niv pair. It's textbook though, and could well be distancing...

Thaiboxershorts quickly jumped on the bandwagon and quickly jumped off after Oman. Fos: Thai for bandwagoning.

Erecthomania has not made any contributations to the game townwise, yet has posted.

Erg0... I'm sorta confused about him.

Zakk_status and Langley haven't even posted, yet I'm not suspicious.

Niv tries to hit soup again, this time simply for playstyle. Niv, accept please that even if you don't like a style of play, it is probably often used as town as well as scum, so you can't lynch on playstyle. a LOT of vbery good players use WIFOM a lot...


Gatorguy Once more...

soupfly wrote:
in the spirit of Sherlock Holmes sleuthing Erotomachia-style...

i'm similarly curious how gatorguy is posting in other threads today (friday), but has made only feeble attempts to respond to accusations against him in this game:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=225
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3&start=50

also, if he posts here on sunday that he'll be gone for the next 5-7 days then why does he sign up for another mafia game on the same day?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1625

care to answer these gatorguy?
@niv, after looking through the site yesterday, i understand your suspicion of me vis-a-vis my argumentation style (WIFOM/metagaming). in my defense this is my second game so i'm still learning.

1. I didn't know i would have access here, and i didn't expect that game to start for 5 days anyway.
2. Here's a post. I wanted to post after lots of activity so I wouldn't have nothing to say, really.

I'm upgrading my FoS to a vote.

Vote Soupfly

No reason, just an agressive contentless response to soup and a lack of content after being pressured. This could be poor town, but it could be scum trying to slip under the net... also notable that Niv is still attacking Soup at this point...

I put Gator under a small amount of pressure and he goes off voting and looks upon the Lurkers.

Niv accepts soups argument, (poosibly) realises the soup wagon is deteriorating, and attacks me for hypocracy, thus defending Gator.

He accepts the apology I had written prior to his attack on me and unvotes.

I say why I was trying to stop soup geetting lynched early on.

*Genneral complaints about lurkers from Niv et moi*

Gator;

IGMEOY Jenter. I forgot about this, but you were being extremely hypocritical.

Ok now take a look at this, part of Niv's post on the previous page;

Yet i dont think you have posted much content either all game. Vote Jen for hipocryacy

Argument jumping anyone? Gator attatches himself to Niv's argument here.

Oman bandwagon begins on the grounds of his 'lynch lurkjers' comment.

Niv keeps hammering at the hypocrasy thing.

soupfly wrote:
the one thing i'm not liking is that suspicion seems to be falling on those who are most active in posting.

Good Point!!

Vote Zakk_status

Tell Me WHY You're not scum. [/b]

Argument jumping once more, interesting that he chose Zakk here - one of the two players he had a good idea wouldn't respond.

I accuse Niv of being similar to Gator, in retrospect it was probably more the other way round.

Thai joins the game, looks at Gator as the worst in his eyes.

Village Idiot i might be.

This is maniacal. Claiming you're the village idiot seems like the perfect way to cover up for scummy posting, possibly worse even than a n00b claim.

Unvote Zakk_Status a pointless vote really.

He come under pressure, he unvotes. Again.

Thoughts: Soupfly. Earlier I thought you were scum, but your material seems to be good. UnFoS Soupfly. Agree with Thai here.

Why He might be scum: "We lost our cop" speech, drawing suspiscion from an empty post.

Why He might not be scum: Large contributions to the game, very active, seems to be trying to help the town.

Anaylasis: Probably Not Scum.

Thaiboxershorts

Thoughts: He's putting out some pretty good points there, some of them confusing though.

Fails to provide any of the points or why they are confusing.

Why he might be scum:

As for Jenter, well... I dunno. The anti-Jenter arguments kind of hold water. Criticizing lack of substance while acknowledging his own lack of substance, the possible "feigning ignorance" thing that Eroto pointed out. But I'm just not getting a scum vibe from Jenter. I can't really give an objective reason why, though I'll go back through his posts and see if I can find something.

Looking at this it summed up to me possibly as "Jenter's Acting Really scummy but I'm pretty sure he's not scum." I don't understand. It's obvious some vibes have to occur from his scummy behavior.

His bandwagoning has also worried me a bit. He jumped on the soup bandwagon and also got off quickly.

There was no wagon. He was the first Random voter on soup.

Why He might not be scum: He's been pretty active and has not done anything close to lurking

Anaylasis: I still have an FoS on him.

Questions for Thaiboxershorts:
Why did you unvote soupfly so fast?

I have to go, but I'll finish this later.

Part B;

Sorry Thai, You did not Jump on the bandwagon quickly, you jumped OFF it quickly. My Mistake.

Continuing on:

*Credit goes to Oman for the Format*

Oman

Thoughts: He's been defending me. I liked his style with the for and against lists.

Why He might be scum: It looks likei I'm the VI. Town idea: Always lynch the VI, but he seems to try to keep the VI around. Hmmm....

So you're advocating lynching yourself? Why would a townie do that?

Why He might not be scum: He always seems to have materials with good, protown thoughts.

Question(s):
Do You really think it's scummy that i stole your format?

Just kidding.

Jenter

Thoughts: Short posts every once in a while.

Why He might be scum: Lurking, Lurking, Lurking. He's had very many posts none of them having much content and then pointing his finger at me for doing the exact same thing.

Why he might not scum: At least He's posting a lot.

Questions:
Jenter, who do you find most scummy now?

Also:

Niv I think is Town

Ok, he's jumped on Niv's arguments before and now Niv is the one player he chooses not to bother analysing. It's not bad on it's own, but it all adds up...

Langley and Zakk need replacements

I have no read on Erotomachia or Erg0

Then;

I sware I'm the VI.

Tries to mask his blunders with the 'I'm crap' tell'.

Oman agrees we should Lynch the VI.

Gator asks for a VC.

Other people talk about Lynching VIs, the 'they tend to turn up town', and so on, but discussion contiunes...

Jimmy joins in. Says he has a 'feeling' about Streef.

Gator says 'I'm the Vi not scum' with 0% evidence.

He says he doesn't want to claim, which is interesting.

And so to page 8...

Ooh look, it's Gator's knight in shining armour...

Niv;

ok, so we decide that gator is stupid.

Wat i see here is that after Gator says VI, Oman votes for him. i have been suspicious of oman before, so i will now Unvote, Vote oman. that ss bad imo

Blatant defence of Gator. We have some mislynches to us, and GATOR LOOKS SCUMMY. Pretty much everyone agrees. Just baecuse he claims stupidity doesn't mean he's stupid OR innocent.

Everyone swings around when I keep trying to get a Gator lynch, on the lynching for info is bad wagon.

Jimmy keeps as silent watch on Streef. I have had a though that he may be a lyncher for Streef, but otherwise I am unsure why this is.

TBS keeps on Gator.

Haut repalces in.

Niv does a rather neat pbpa of me. Gator jumps on instantly.

I admit that I haven't played too well so far.

That's that, please go through this gator. Niv, if you are town look out as Gator has attatched himself to you in several places here. I basically don't like Gator's play, the way he hops so readily onto other people's arguments and unvotes at the slightest bit of pressure. Niv has defended him once ore twice and he seems to hop onto Niv's arguments quite readily. That be that.

If anyone wants me to claim, say so and I will.

[Oman]

Firstly, threatening to claim is a scummy look. Its like daring us to push you.

NO

I'm not sure enough to ask for a claim.

I loved your large post, but can I ask you: Who is it you think is the scum pair/trio? Are there any mutally exclusive (I.e. if x is scum then y is town)?

I'll re-read your post again.

[Oman]

Do you want me to claim? I will if that is actually what you want.

Threatening to claim. To threaten the town isn't a good thing.

1 vote is not the start of a bandwagon, it was probabaly just a bit of pressure.

One vote is the start of a bandwagon, it has to be, theres nothing else to start a bandwagon effectivly.

When you think about it, 1 post is the start of the bandwagon, and a lynch.

This is notable and possibly the best reason for NOT looking at a Gator-Niv pair. It's textbook though, and could well be distancing

I don't often trust the claimed VI (still shocking turn of events there) to distance.

a LOT of vbery good players use WIFOM a lot...

WIFOM sucks and any good player that uses it needs to look at their playstyle a lot. WIFOM is pointless.

No reason, just an agressive contentless response to soup and a lack of content after being pressured.

Agreed, its a real lack of content in that post, but it looks rather OMGUS-y.

This could be poor town, but it could be scum trying to slip under the net...

This is the real theory discussion here.

also notable that Niv is still attacking Soup at this point...

I don't see scum trying this hard on one player, its just doesn't have the return on investment.

Niv accepts soups argument, (poosibly) realises the soup wagon is deteriorating, and attacks me for hypocracy,

This is a bit too much speculation for me. I don't mind it a bit. But I wouldn't use this as an argument against Niv. Any player that only just then notices the Soup wagon

*

isn't gaining support isn't paying as much attention as Niv is.

Argument jumping anyone? Gator attatches himself to Niv's argument here.

There's also the possibility that Niv just outlined it for him

Oman bandwagon begins on the grounds of his 'lynch lurkjers' comment.

Is there a point here? Is it relevant to your argument.

interesting that he chose Zakk here - one of the two players he had a good idea wouldn't respond.

Now I think you're wrong. He was voting for someone who wasn't posting to get a reaction (hence "tell me why you're not scum"). Unless I've missed something (?)

This is maniacal. Claiming you're the village idiot seems like the perfect way to cover up for scummy posting, possibly worse even than a n00b claim.

Its the same claim essentially.

Unvote Zakk_Status a pointless vote really.

He come under pressure, he unvotes. Again.

I think it was a mostly pointless vote, designed for pressure. When it didn't work he unvoted.

: Probably Not Scum.

You say nothing here Jenter, this is a Gator saying soup is prolly town line.

Fails to provide any of the points or why they are confusing.

Agreed, rather contentless again.

"Jenter's Acting Really scummy but I'm pretty sure he's not scum." I don't understand. It's obvious some vibes have to occur from his scummy behavior.

This could be Gators said "confusing argument" (?)

There was no wagon. He was the first Random voter on soup.

Agreed.

So you're advocating lynching yourself? Why would a townie do that?

Why would scum do that? AH WIFOM!

Jenter

Thoughts: Short posts every once in a while.

Why He might be scum: Lurking, Lurking, Lurking. He's had very many posts none of them having much content and then pointing his finger at me for doing the exact same thing.

Why he might not scum: At least He's posting a lot.

Questions:
Jenter, who do you find most scummy now?

You don't touch this with your green pen Jenter.

Ok, he's jumped on Niv's arguments before and now Niv is the one player he chooses not to bother analysing. It's not bad on it's own, but it all adds up...

Its often a townie move to assume someone defending you can't be scum. Agreed that everything adds up. I doubt these two are paired though.

I sware I'm the VI.

Tries to mask his blunders with the 'I'm crap' tell'.

Yep, doesn't sit well with me.

Oman agrees we should Lynch the VI.

Point again?

Gator asks for a VC.

Point?

Other people talk about Lynching VIs, the 'they tend to turn up town', and so on, but discussion contiunes...

Point?

Gator says 'I'm the Vi not scum' with 0% evidence.

thats the problem, the evidence for VI is the same as evidence for scum.

He says he doesn't want to claim, which is interesting.

As did you, even if not in as many words.

Niv;

ok, so we decide that gator is stupid.

Wat i see here is that after Gator says VI, Oman votes for him. i have been suspicious of oman before, so i will now Unvote, Vote oman. that ss bad imo

Blatant defence of Gator. We have some mislynches to us, and GATOR LOOKS SCUMMY. Pretty much everyone agrees. Just baecuse he claims stupidity doesn't mean he's stupid OR innocent.

Niv isn't defending Gator here, he's defending the town. I wanted to lynch Gator and Niv assumes that VIs turn up town.

Everyone swings around when I keep trying to get a Gator lynch, on the lynching for info is bad wagon.

the further we get into this day, the more I agree with lynching for info, the time you called it was too early. Discussion gives more info.

Jimmy keeps as silent watch on Streef. I have had a though that he may be a lyncher for Streef, but otherwise I am unsure why this is.

Interesting thought about lynchers and lynchees. Makes me think the powerroles in this game are going to be largely unreliable.

TBS keeps on Gator.

Haut repalces in.

Point?

I admit that I haven't played too well so far.

as Niv said, fix it or it doesn't matter what you admit. This post is a definate step.

This Niv/Gator thing. I don't think they're scum, they're just too...transparent. That said, as this game goes on, lynching for information could work, and then we have to take a guess on one of them.

If anyone wants me to claim, say so and I will.

I'd prefer not, if someone else wants you to they can ask but I'd suggest we don't go fishing for roles right now.

*

sounds like a poor meals on wheels

[Jenter Brolincani]

I don't want to claim ,just people have been pressuring me for content and I wondered if that was what they meant.

Most of thaos things where you worte 'point?' Oman were not points, they were just commens to keep the pbpa flowing and keep what I was writing in context.

[Oman]

Oh right, just reiteration for context. Sorry.

[Jimmy R]

Well, it's starting to get interesting now. It's not my role to lynch Streeflo, I just found him a little sus on my first read through. If that was my role, I would have built a slow and methodical case on him and stuck at it. As it is, I had a feeling, but I put a little pressure on and am satisfied with how he responded.

I'm still sus of Jenter and am keeping my vote where it is. It took us putting a few votes on him before he brought the posts with content, which could mean anything. Maybe he's scum and he realised the pressure was on and he had to start coming off as pro-town, who knows at this stage.

FOS: Jimmy R

because his posts are making me feel pretty cautious. After some people questioned he vote on Streeflo, he unvoted and has quickly transitioned to a vote on Jenter. I don't think he liked being in the limelight.

You're right, I don't like being in the limelight because it's a waste of time. Not that it has anything to do with moving my vote, which I explained above. I always end up being in the limelight because I post quite a lot, so it's bound to happen.

Still need to hear what a couple of people who haven't been active think.

[Oman]

Same here Jimmy, I end up limelighted because I do second and third votes cause randoms annoy me. About the limelight, I don't hate it, I don't care about it. If i get lynched as a townie, its bound to help find scum. My win condition doesn't require me to be alive, so why make it my priority?

[Jenter Brolincani]

VC please mod.

Oman, was that a vanilla townie roleclaim?

[Maz Medias]

Vote Count:
Jenter Brolincani: Gatorguy91, Jimmy R, Niv, Oman
soupfly: Haut Boy~♥
Gatorguy91: Jenter Brolincani, ThaiBoxerShorts

Not Voting: Erg0, Erotomachia, soupfly, Streeflo

[soupfly]

Well, everything that Jenter wrote is pretty sound IMO. I think that in large part the Jenter bandwagon is fabricated and those voting for him certainly look suspicious in my eyes. It may be that he's scum but not based on the arguments presented so far.

I'm leaning towards a Gator vote at the moment.

Still not much of a feel on Streetflo, Haut Boy or Jimmy R. Thai is off of my suspicion list as he's really not done anything scummy yet.

[Oman]

Any townie has the same win condition Jenter, and I'm neccesarily claiming vanillia. I have a feeling from your hints and gator's hints that powerroles abound.

Lynching for info could work here, if we lynch Jenter and he's scum, we get a tick. We also learn about soup, gator, and niv. Even Me and Jimmy to a smaller degree.

I still don't want it now, we have good discusion going.

[ThaiBoxerShorts]

This Niv/Gator thing. I don't think they're scum, they're just too...transparent. That said, as this game goes on, lynching for information could work, and then we have to take a guess on one of them.

That

strikes me as a bit WIFOMy, though not necessarily on

your

part.

Niv hasn't really raised much suspicion in my eyes, though Jenter raises an interesting argument for a Niv/Gator scumpairing. Not quite enough for an FOS on Niv, though. We'll see how this plays out.

I really don't like this "lynching for info" idea, and I'm not too thrilled with Oman's Day 1 vanilla claim (especially considering that Oman was in no immediate danger and no one asked). Overall, Oman seems very pro-town, but I think this behavior warrants a mild

IGMEOY

.

[Oman]

When did I claim? Seriously, I only talked about a win condition which is the same from townie to cop to doc.

Also, on reread I did miss a word. Should be "I'm

not

neccesarily claiming vanillia". I know it doesn't look good but if you read through that sentence then it makes sense I dropped the word.

Lynching for info gains more and more merit as the day goes on and more and more connections become apparent.

[ThaiBoxerShorts]

Also, on reread I did miss a word. Should be "I'm

not

neccesarily claiming vanillia".

Ah, alrighty. Nevermind, then.

I'm still uneasy about lynching for info. I'd rather draw out the conversation as long as we have to, and then lynch for scum. We have a little wiggle-room before we're in LYLO, but why waste it?

[Oman]

Thai, whats your thought(s) on Jenter.

[Streeflo]

Firstly, threatening to claim is a scummy look. Its like daring us to push you.

NO

I'm not sure enough to ask for a claim.

I don't know, I've done that my first few games, especially when I have a powerrole under my belt. You should claim at L-1 or when you feel the time is right.

I do see the case on Jenter, although I'm leaning more on GatorGuy right now.

Vote: GatorGuy

It's just that more people are doing PBPAs on Jenter. I'll switch votes if I see anything particularly scummy come up.

For the record, soupfly strikes me as town.
I got my eye on Jimmy.