White Flag Mafia [TM2015] (Game Over)

[Ankamius]

BTW Zach, Wisdom had a knee jerk reaction to your push on me, he doesn't think you're scum.

[Ankamius]

FTR I think your push on me was scum, so there's that.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.05

Aneninen (2) - Ankamius, Antihero
Ankamius (2) - Aneninen, theelkspeaks
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting (3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Regfan, Zachrulez

With 9 alive, it will take 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Monday, May 11, 2015, at 12:00 PM EDT (UTC-4), which is in (expired on 2015-05-11 12:00:00).

Moderator Comments

Equinox is V/LA until April 30.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1461 - CES, people not being here for deadline is not alignment indicative. That's ridiculous.

OK, I can see where you're coming from with the Ank unvote. I hadn't thought about it like that; his reasoning for the unvote is pretty poor as well.

Regarding CD being a scum driven wagon, that should be pretty clear. You're scum, CES. Scum obviously didn't want your lynch to happen, CD was a great counter-wagon and probably the easiest mis-lynch to push for scum as well. The fact all of my scum reads ended up on the CD wagon just reinforces my theory further. I have serious trouble believing both leading wagons were on town for pretty much the whole DP.

1462 - Same question to you Reg, why would my scum reads change when a) I haven't been shown to be wrong yet, b) none of the reasons I think they are scum have been addressed sufficiently and c) they continue to do scummy shit making my read even stronger.

The only read I would say I have been static on is Ika; I started scum reading him mid-to-late D1 and it's never changed. And I see no reason why it should. The problem with this site is it's extremely difficult to lynch someone who lurks/doesn't actually do much. As long as he asks a few shallow questions that look townie, he continues to slide by unnoticed.

Someone show me how ika is scum hunting, just show me. Ever since I have suspected him, he OMGUS'ed me and has never looked back. Has ika been accused of having static reads? No, because it suits other peoples needs.

I wasn't even scum-reading CES D1. I only started scum reading him on D2 when I went back to look at how the Aero wagon developed; I'm not sure how this is being considered as static. I notice nobody has a problem with my 'static' town reads, that's the funny part. My reads are OK to be static if it suits their particular needs/reads. Fuck that.

1464 - Reg, how am I coasting? I'm fucking trying to get people lynched who I think are scum and nobody is fucking interested, what do you want me to do? I'm getting fed up with this bullshit now, I really am.

I have explained both of my reads on Ces/Ika so I don't know why you're pretending I haven't.

1465 - CES, you can claim I have stopped looking for scum as much as you like because it's simply not true, I quick glance over my ISO shows this. Maybe Ank is scum with you and he was unvoting to jump on CD wagon? That's an interesting thought...

Yup, I haven't interacted with elk much, I kept forgetting he was in the game. I was waiting for Anen to catch up to interact with him and he's currently engaged in a wall-off with Ank in which I have little interest in.

I agree that my push on you lacks conviction. Not much I can do about that unfortunately.

1467 - Anen, I'm not sure what you're not following about what I said. It's pretty clear.

I don't like the way elk has slinked into the background but I have no interest in lynching him toDay; unless it's a deadline lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey CES, let's talk about static reads.

In VC 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 1.05...all the way through to VC 1.20 your vote sits on Cheery Dog. Doesn't move once.

What happens after that? That's right, your sudden jump onto the Aero wagon with no read progression at all (oh wait, that's right, it happened outside of the thread)

Bullshit.

CES needs lynching. The fact he continued this trend of scum-reading CD for most (all?) of D2 and finally lynched him and then has the cheek to call my reads static is downright ridiculous.

I haven't looked at VCs from D2 yet but there were a few things I noted from D1's VCs that I'll bring up soon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, so, what do the D1 VCs tell us?

Here, have a read;

Ika's vote sat idle for the whole day. He sat not voting anybody until he hammered Aero. Ika knows I like to do VCA (and he knows Titus does as well) which makes his not voting look extremely scummy. Never mind that he actually hammered without providing any input/content at all. I want to reiterate this;

Ika voted nobody all Day.

Now, if I could direct you to VC 1.02;

Vote Count 1.02
ika (4) -

Aeronaut

,

Cheery Dog

,

Llamarble

, BlueBloodedToffee
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - Psyche

Cheery Dog

(1) - Cogito Ergo Sum

Llamarble

(1) - Zachrulez

Oversoul

(1) - theelkspeaks
theelkspeaks (1) - Regfan
Zachrulez (1) -

Oversoul

Not Voting (3) - Ankamius, ika, TellTaleHeart

You will see that the whole wagon on ika is town (if you accept that I'm town). I realise this was an early VC so it does't hold much weight, but it's worth noting.

VC 1.08 is pretty interesting;

Vote Count 1.08
theelkspeaks (5) - Regfan, BlueBloodedToffee,

Aeronaut

, Zachrulez,

Oversoul

Cheery Dog

(2) - Cogito Ergo Sum,

Llamarble

Psyche (2) - Antihero, Ankamius
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - Psyche

Oversoul

(1) - theelkspeaks

Not Voting (2) - ika,

Cheery Dog

Elk's wagon looks town as fuck; four town and then Regfan. I'm beginning to think Elk could be scum. If he is, I'm wrong on one of CES/Reg, probably Reg.

Finally, in 1.27;

Vote Count 1.27
Aeronaut (7) - Regfan,

Llamarble

, Cogito Ergo Sum,

Oversoul

, Zachrulez, theelkspeaks, ika
ika (3) -

Cheery Dog

, BlueBloodedToffee, Ankamius
Psyche (1) - Antihero
theelkspeaks (1) -

Aeronaut

Not Voting (1) - Psyche

The Aero wagon consists of - Reg, Llamarble, CES, Oversoul, Zach, elk and ika. Obviously Llamarble and Oversoul (Tammy) have flipped town. I would bet there is two scum in Reg/CES/elk/ika. I'd bet my life on it.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Regarding CD being a scum driven wagon, that should be pretty clear. You're scum, CES. Scum obviously didn't want your lynch to happen, CD was a great counter-wagon and probably the easiest mis-lynch to push for scum as well. The fact all of my scum reads ended up on the CD wagon just reinforces my theory further. I have serious trouble believing both leading wagons were on town for pretty much the whole DP.

So your further reason for me being scum is mostly that I'm scum and that Regfan (who is suspicious because he could be my partner) voted CD. And Cheery Dog wasn't a leading wagon at any point except the end Yesterday.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

In VC 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 1.05...all the way through to VC 1.20 your vote sits on Cheery Dog. Doesn't move once.

What happens after that? That's right, your sudden jump onto the Aero wagon with no read progression at all (oh wait, that's right, it happened outside of the thread)

I didn't really care that much who my vote was on early on because I wanted to keep Day 1 going so I could talk with 'marble and Regfan and try to do enough scumhunting together to give us a good chance of winning the game before any of us died. That's why my vote didn't move and that's why I placed a "sudden" vote on Aeronaut. I think I made my approach to the game fairly obvious so your complaint is still as empty as it was previously.

CES needs lynching. The fact he continued this trend of scum-reading CD for most (all?) of D2 and finally lynched him and then has the cheek to call my reads static is downright ridiculous.

I haven't gone after you for having static reads because I don't think that's inherently all that interesting; I certainly had static reads last White Flag mafia. My problem is mainly with your play since voting for me; the fact that your reads have been fairly static since does reflect some of those problems but that's not what I'm attacking.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So your further reason for me being scum is mostly that I'm scum and that Regfan (who is suspicious because he could be my partner) voted CD. And Cheery Dog wasn't a leading wagon at any point except the end Yesterday.

You're acting like I need more reasons to scum read you. I have reasons and I have stated them.

You're right, I thought CD was a leading wagon for a lot longer than what he was.

VC 2.16 is when CD wagon begins to pick up. And he did stay as a leading wagon for the next 12 pages (300 or so posts), so yeah, I would still argue that I doubt both leading wagons over a 12 page period and eventual lynch were on town.

After looking over the VCs I'm going to take back my bolded scum team to avoid looking silly. All of Reg/ika/CES were on both lynches and that feels too aggressive for scum. With how late D2 played out, I would imagine they were more spread out. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong on Reg because that is based on associations which was stupid of me to do in the first place.

I need to sort out elk/Ank/Anen. Ank seems town to me and elk looks the scummiest. I need to interact with Anen to get a feel for him, I can usually sniff him out pretty well if he's scum. It's a little difficult though with this wall off going on.

Anen & Elk - Can you both state your reads please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I don't get Ankamius' unvote late D2.

Like, it doesn't make sense from either alignment. I initially thought that maybe he was scum with CES but he unvotes

after

CD becomes the leading wagon (which he wouldn't need to do to save his buddy from being lynched). Also, VCA aside, I don't see scum motivation in Ank's posting.

CES, what is the scum motivation behind Ank unvoting? I know you said townies want to influence the lynch at the end of the day; anything else? Because it makes no sense to me.

[Aneninen]

(5) Frankly, need I point out why I am an easy lynch in this game?

yes
yes you do
because, you know, remember the time you got lynched in musoka, jk9++, and c9++ even though you were scummy as all fuck in all those?
let's reminisce.

Frankly, are you scum or simply trolling around?
I've been talking about

this

game!
But okay, I'm walking you through it.
(1) Take a look at the playerlist of the whole Team Mafia. I'm not even in the Top50 experienced players!
(2) Before replacing in I hadn't heard about Team Mafia at all. (Nor the rules or whatsoever.) While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!
(3) Also, I replaced into a lurk-slot. I haven't got an idea what happened to Psycho and why he didn't do anything. (Here are some paraphrases from the Team Thread: "I don't quite understand whats going on", "grrrr mislynch", then "give me more time", "I don't wanna play"...)

Now, add these things together. What do you get? An easy mislynch.

What about it makes it "clearly scum driven"?

the fact that the SAME FUCKING PEOPLE ARE DRIVING ALL THESE PUSHES THAT KEEP FLIPPING TOWN

Did you mean the CD wagon or both the CD and the Arenoaut wagon?

1462 - Same question to you Reg, why would my scum reads change when a) I haven't been shown to be wrong yet, b) none of the reasons I think they are scum have been addressed sufficiently and c) they continue to do scummy shit making my read even stronger.

Your reads haven't been shown to be correct too.
Also, they

continue

scummy shyt. Ika has done very little Today. And I don't see why CED's Day3 posts are that shytty.

Someone show me how ika is scum hunting, just show me. Ever since I have suspected him, he OMGUS'ed me and has never looked back. Has ika been accused of having static reads? No, because it suits other peoples needs.

Who are those "other people"?

I was waiting for Anen to catch up to interact with him and he's currently engaged in a wall-off with Ank in which I have little interest in.

I caught up ages ago and you've hardly interacted with me since then, although I'm talking to both Antihero and CES, not only to Ankamius. This is not the BBT I know. Also, Ankamius is talking to Zach too, for example.

I need to sort out elk/Ank/Anen. Ank seems town to me and elk looks the scummiest. I need to interact with Anen to get a feel for him, I can usually sniff him out pretty well if he's scum. It's a little difficult though with this wall off going on.
Anen & Elk - Can you both state your reads please?

And yes, of course, Ankamius seems to be town for you. Being away close to Deadline is not important, but it

would have been

very scummy in your eyes if Ankamius hadn't been away – or at least, my intuition says so.
Right now I strongly think that you're distancing from Ankamius. That'swhy you're unwilling to read our walls.

Reads are coming either today or tomorrow. Things are changing in my reads. (Plus, Wgeurts told me a couple of things too, although not too detailed. If anyone's interested in.)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VC 2.15;

Vote Count 2.15
Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee,

Cheery Dog

Aneninen (2) - Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika

Cheery Dog

(1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
ika (1) - theelkspeaks

Not Voting (2) - Aneninen,

Tammy

If I'm right on Ank being town, this is a pretty townie wagon on CES. It also explains why the votes/wagons were dragging, scum are spread out among the other wagons trying to decide what to do.

It's also important to note that ika votes for CES in 2.05 and stays on him until 2.11. When CES' wagon becomes a four person wagon and he looks in real danger of being lynched, ika jumps off and goes back to sitting on me for the majority of the Day.

VC 2.24 was an interesting one;

Vote Count 2.24
Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee,

Cheery Dog

Cheery Dog

(3) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Regfan
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - ika
ika (2) - theelkspeaks, Aneninen

Not Voting (1) -

Tammy

These two wagons look pretty town, right? Maybe Ank is scum on CES (I doubt it) and CES if for sure scum on CD, but the rest are town. And this is where the CD wagon really picks up.

VC 2.25 and CD is the leading wagon;

Vote Count 2.25

Cheery Dog

(5) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Regfan,

Tammy

, ika
Cogito Ergo Sum (4) - Ankamius, Antihero, BlueBloodedToffee,

Cheery Dog

ika (2) - theelkspeaks, Aneninen

Not Voting (0)

Tammy jumps on and then ika (ika's voting this game has been atrocious. It's so opportunistic). Now, the CD wagon doesn't look so town anymore. The wagons ends with Anti hammering;

Vote Count 2.29

Cheery Dog

(6) - Cogito Ergo Sum, Zachrulez, Regfan,

Tammy

, ika, Antihero
Cogito Ergo Sum (2) - BlueBloodedToffee,

Cheery Dog

ika (2) - theelkspeaks, Aneninen

Not Voting (1) - Ankamius

Look at that CD wagon. Think; where are the scum? Zach is town, Anti is town, Tammy has flipped, Reg is most likely town; that leaves ika/CES (Hint; they're both scum.)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your reads haven't been shown to be correct too.
Also, they

continue

scummy shyt. Ika has done very little Today. And I don't see why CED's Day3 posts are that shytty.

No, they haven't. But they will be if town give me a chance.

Ika has done very little all game; but that's not an issue for anyone else. I haven't said CES' posts D3 have been shitty; what are you talking about?

Who are those "other people"?

It depends on the reads.

It suits Zach because he town reads ika so he doesn't give a shit what he does.

It suits ika's scum buddies because he's coasting without doing anything.

Right now I strongly think that you're distancing from Ankamius. That's why you're unwilling to read our walls.

Yeah, you're wrong. Not reading your walls does not relate to distancing from Ank. That's dumb.

[Aneninen]

Also, and this one is very easy, Reg is still alive because he's scum.

Or his reads are awful; prob scum though.

Look at that CD wagon. Think; where are the scum? Zach is town, Anti is town, Tammy has flipped,

Reg is most likely town;

that leaves ika/CES (Hint; they're both scum.)

Shouldn't you explain something here?
Because, I'm strongly thinking about this:

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Anen, are you even reading my posts?

Go on, go and have a read. Then come back to me.

Continue to misrep me and you'll eat rope.

[Aneninen]

After looking over the VCs I'm going to take back my bolded scum team to avoid looking silly. All of Reg/ika/CES were on both lynches and that feels too aggressive for scum. With how late D2 played out, I would imagine they were more spread out. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong on Reg because that is based on associations which was stupid of me to do in the first place.

Yes, I've read this one. But still, even with this, wasn't that a bit too quick change on your reads?

Also, it's funny that

you

're complaining about not reading you whereas you've already admitted not reading our walls with Ankamius.

[Ankamius]

This game's next after I get done with feeding the zoo at my house.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, not when I feel I'm wrong. I can change reads in the space of a post (funny that now I'm being accused of reads changing too quickly)

I didn't get involved with your discussion with Ank. If I did, I would have made sure I had my facts straight.

[Zachrulez]

Hmm, I don't get Ankamius' unvote late D2.

Like, it doesn't make sense from either alignment. I initially thought that maybe he was scum with CES but he unvotes

after

CD becomes the leading wagon (which he wouldn't need to do to save his buddy from being lynched). Also, VCA aside, I don't see scum motivation in Ank's posting.

CES, what is the scum motivation behind Ank unvoting? I know you said townies want to influence the lynch at the end of the day; anything else? Because it makes no sense to me.

That's actually a good point.

Also that inaction is probably how Ank would have responded to that pressure rather than making baffling move after baffling move at the end of day 2.

Hmmm...

Lurking like a mofo in that situation probably would have been the preferable move as scum.

[Zachrulez]

Becoming more confident in Anen scum.

(5) Frankly, need I point out why I am an easy lynch in this game?

yes
yes you do
because, you know, remember the time you got lynched in musoka, jk9++, and c9++ even though you were scummy as all fuck in all those?
let's reminisce.

Frankly, are you scum or simply trolling around?
I've been talking about

this

game!
But okay, I'm walking you through it.
(1) Take a look at the playerlist of the whole Team Mafia. I'm not even in the Top50 experienced players!
(2) Before replacing in I hadn't heard about Team Mafia at all. (Nor the rules or whatsoever.) While catching-up I tried to understand the concept and everything etc. And what a surprise, "my catch-up and my reads are terrible"!
(3) Also, I replaced into a lurk-slot. I haven't got an idea what happened to Psycho and why he didn't do anything. (Here are some paraphrases from the Team Thread: "I don't quite understand whats going on", "grrrr mislynch", then "give me more time", "I don't wanna play"...)

This is so woe is me. Point 2 is AWFUL. Using the team mafia concept as an excuse, when white flag is as simple a game concept as you're ever going to get in mafia.

[Aneninen]

And you've missed this line from my post:

"Now, add these things together. What do you get? An easy mislynch."

It was not an excuse at all. It was an explanation why I consider myself an easy mislynch in this game. None of those factors would be too important

in itself

, I meant them

together

.

It seems that you've also missed the fact that it was an answer for Antihero's question.

[Ankamius]

(I still want her [mollie's] reads and explanations in this thread asap especially the "ika is confscum due to meta tell" v "ika might be town!" change since that's the one I struggle to buyt he most)

Here's mollie's reads right now:

Antihero - Town
theelkspeaks - Lynchbait (Town)
BlueBloodedToffee - Still sorting (although in a later post put him down as a solid town read for 1484; she doesn't see why scum would ever post that)
Zachrulez - Dunno

CES - She can't read him at all; he always looks really town and really scum at the same time and wonders why he's still alive on day 3. She can't really say much more on this slot and wishes she had a more fleshed out read on him
Regfan - She's curious why you want to know her reads since she doesn't believe you think she's a competent player to her knowledge. She thinks that you're slipping into a scum-teacher mode where you try to correct town's incorrect judgment because you can't help it. It's also interesting that you're posting about Tammy's NK being because she's 'obvtown and likely has good reads', yet are not attempting to follow up on that thought process at all. If you have, please point it out. Who nightkilled Tammy and why? She thinks BBT might have done it since he seems hooked on thinking he's right this game, but meh, scum can fake it too. Her theory is that scum killed Tammy to use it as leverage in the game, and she thinks you're doing it in an underhanded way; you're still alive on day 3 in a game with only townflips and you're not lusting for a scumflip. You're being too passive for her liking, but she'll do research later on and think about it if there's time.
ika - The slot she wanted to sort out first. He was town when she first started reading the game, but there was something she noticed that's more likely from scum!ika that she's willing to reveal because she'd like to fix her meta if it really is a bad tell even though she doesn't like outing stuff like this. The tell itself is ika going around asking people who they think the next nightkill in the game is since that's what is on his mind. It's less about asking people who will be nightkilled next itself and more about the thought process being in that direction entirely. Although it's a general tell that worked before cops and doctors started doing it as well, it rang alarm bells here because it looked like ika was taking a measured step by going down that path. However, there's been enough town flares in his posts and the reachouts look genuine enough that she's leaning towards town on him now.

[Ankamius]

uhhhhh, that could probably have been about 50x more readable. Sorry.

(I still want her [mollie's] reads and explanations in this thread asap especially the "ika is confscum due to meta tell" v "ika might be town!" change since that's the one I struggle to buyt he most)

Here's mollie's reads right now:

Antihero - Town
theelkspeaks - Lynchbait (Town)
BlueBloodedToffee - Still sorting (although in a later post put him down as a solid town read for 1484; she doesn't see why scum would ever post that)
Zachrulez - Dunno

CES - She can't read him at all; he always looks really town and really scum at the same time and wonders why he's still alive on day 3. She can't really say much more on this slot and wishes she had a more fleshed out read on him

Regfan - She's curious why you want to know her reads since she doesn't believe you think she's a competent player to her knowledge. She thinks that you're slipping into a scum-teacher mode where you try to correct town's incorrect judgment because you can't help it. It's also interesting that you're posting about Tammy's NK being because she's 'obvtown and likely has good reads', yet are not attempting to follow up on that thought process at all. If you have, please point it out. Who nightkilled Tammy and why? She thinks BBT might have done it since he seems hooked on thinking he's right this game, but meh, scum can fake it too. Her theory is that scum killed Tammy to use it as leverage in the game, and she thinks you're doing it in an underhanded way; you're still alive on day 3 in a game with only townflips and you're not lusting for a scumflip. You're being too passive for her liking, but she'll do research later on and think about it if there's time.

ika - The slot she wanted to sort out first. He was town when she first started reading the game, but there was something she noticed that's more likely from scum!ika that she's willing to reveal because she'd like to fix her meta if it really is a bad tell even though she doesn't like outing stuff like this. The tell itself is ika going around asking people who they think the next nightkill in the game is since that's what is on his mind. It's less about asking people who will be nightkilled next itself and more about the thought process being in that direction entirely. Although it's a general tell that worked before cops and doctors started doing it as well, it rang alarm bells here because it looked like ika was taking a measured step by going down that path. However, there's been enough town flares in his posts and the reachouts look genuine enough that she's leaning towards town on him now.

Oh also, Aneninen was left out of the original reads list, but she thought he was slightly town-leaning until Antihero came out with a scumread on him since her only particular reason for townreading Aneninen is weak meta.

[Ankamius]

Mollie also wants to point out that her reads are tentative and she's still sorting things out since it's a lot more difficult to get reads in games she's not in.

[ika]

ank for mollie: what is elk lynchbait town?

tell her i will talk to her about nk spec and my reasons behind it post-games