Mini 472 - Cartman Mafia - Game Over

[ryan]

lol ryan i said i got a guilty result and i wasn't positive of my sanity lol Gatorguy your in no place to put me on the same lvl as you you dont even post until your life is at stake.

cmon guys you either believe that im cop or im not which is it?

I'm not sure what to believe with you right now J-man, you're playing pretty confident right now which leads me to believe you could be the cop, but a piece of me knows what you play like when you are scum, and you're showing some of those tendencies too. I'll let some others weigh in, right now I'm 50/50 on believing you, especially after Gatorguy's vanilla claim.

[ZeekLTK]

To respond for my behavior, I have just been trying to be overaggressive to put pressure on OTM and see if he cracks. Apparently no one agrees with me though so I'll back off for now.


Since we have a cop claim, if you want to test your sanity you can investigate me. I am the safest to investigate because I won't lie about my role: if you get an innocent then you are insane. And then if you aren't the real cop, the real cop won't waste an investigation AND end up revealing himself thinking he got a mafia when he didn't. If you get guilty on me then obviously Gatorguy is mafia and we should lynch him (if we don't today).

I won't vote for Gatorguy yet since you seem to think you are an insane cop, so no point in killing a townie and giving the mafia an easy bandwagon kill to finish off day 1.

[ZeekLTK]

From above:

"And then if you aren't the real cop, the real cop won't waste an investigation AND end up revealing himself thinking he got a mafia when he didn't"


What I mean is, if he investigates *me* he won't blow his cover, because I'll give a guilty result but I am NOT mafia.

[Stewie]

RE: claiming. Claim whatever you like, as long as you use your own words. Don't say something like "the third letter of my role PM is "X," but you are allowed to claim which character you are, which episode it appears in, what your role powers (if any) are, etc.

[ryan]

To respond for my behavior, I have just been trying to be overaggressive to put pressure on OTM and see if he cracks. Apparently no one agrees with me though so I'll back off for now.


Since we have a cop claim, if you want to test your sanity you can investigate me. I am the safest to investigate because I won't lie about my role: if you get an innocent then you are insane. And then if you aren't the real cop, the real cop won't waste an investigation AND end up revealing himself thinking he got a mafia when he didn't. If you get guilty on me then obviously Gatorguy is mafia and we should lynch him (if we don't today).

I won't vote for Gatorguy yet since you seem to think you are an insane cop, so no point in killing a townie and giving the mafia an easy bandwagon kill to finish off day 1.

But if J-Man thinks he's an insane cop why is he so sure that Gatorguy91 is scum?

[ZeekLTK]

He didn't say he was sure:

ok fine you want my case? this is my case i am a Cop i investagated Gatorguy91 N1 because i had never played with him before ive been pressing for him to talk this whole game but he hasn't given me anything

im not sure if im allowed to quote which epi i come from but i think i may have sanity issues if the role is consistant with the epi :/ but as everyone knows the only way to find our sanity or not is to lynch the person that you got a guilty result on.

the reason i decided that it was time to lynch gatorguy is because he hasn't contributed anything to the game and likely isn't going to so even if he isn't mafia he won't be missed and either way we will know whether or not to trust my investagations in the days to come.

personally i think it is a fair trade and ill pm stewie and ask if i can quote the epi if i can i'll quote for you so you can see why i question my sanity.

again

CONFIRM VOTE:Gatorguy91

incase it wasn't clear enough i did investagate Gatorguy91 N1 and the result was guilty

To be specific: i think i may have sanity issues if the role is consistant with the epi


I notice ChaosOmega has been the only person to vote for Gatorguy since the claim though...

[ZeekLTK]

So, if he really is a cop and wants to find out his sanity, I suggested to investigate me since I am a miller - so if you are a sane cop you will get guilty on me and vice versa.


However, I could totally see this being a mafia move.

-Claim cop hoping the real cop shows himself.
-Claim that you might be insane so that if we lynch a townie you can just say "oh, well I guess I'm insane" and take no responsibility for killing a townie. Then, you can get another townie lynched later by saying you got an innocent on someone. After that you'll obviously be found out as a fraud and killed, but you would have killed two townies via lynching (and 2 more during those nights) and have thrown everyone off.

So we should be careful with this.

[ZeekLTK]

Also I'm glad he did this because even if he's not the cop, I wanted to role claim as soon as possible so, like I said, the cop doesn't reveal himself if he investigates me and then we end up losing a townie (me) and the cop is revealed with no mafia found yet.

[Off the Mark]

Interesting. Zeek and ryan, your whole analysis of this situation still reads as incredibly scummy to me. Maybe it's just your playstyles, but something is off about you two. Especially this comment from Zeek:

Since we have a cop claim, if you want to test your sanity you can investigate me. I am the safest to investigate because I won't lie about my role: if you get an innocent then you are insane. And then if you aren't the real cop, the real cop won't waste an investigation AND end up revealing himself thinking he got a mafia when he didn't. If you get guilty on me then obviously Gatorguy is mafia and we should lynch him (if we don't today).

Are you honestly this naive? You think you can just make a statement like "I won't lie about my role" in a game of mafia and people will just accept you at face value? This is incredibly scummy or incredibly dumb, I'm not sure which.

You seem like you are trying to say "Don't lynch Gatorguy, investigate me instead since I, of course, am innocent, then you'll know if your investigation on Gatorguy is correct." You know what this tells me? You would only say this if you KNOW that your own investigation will return the same result as Gatorguy's! If Gatorguy comes up as scum, you just confirmed yourself as scum, bub, nice job. So let's get lynching.

unvote:
vote: Gatorguy

J-man, I would like a little more explanation from you about why you didn't go after Gatorguy earlier and why you didn't just claim in your first post since you have a guilty investigation and we probably have a doc who can protect you.

I believe J-man's claim because there was no real reason for him to lie, he was not under pressure. And he was already going after Gatorguy, but not sharing his reasons, which makes sense. And Gatorguy's response was totally unconvinving.

I want to think that scum have been outed as Gatorguy, Zeek, and ryan, but this game can't be that simple can it? In a way I hope I'm wrong, because I was looking forward to a fun and weird game here.

[Off the Mark]

EBWOP - ok, when I posted I did not see Zeek's last two posts, so I didn't know he was claiming Miller. For this to make sense, you really should have said it when you first proposed that J-man investigate you.

So what episode is your "Miller" role from? Give us the Cartman flavor. You are lieing scum, dude.

[Off the Mark]

Also, tell us more about your abilities. What can you do? I believe you should lynch all claimed millers on general principle. They're far more likely to be scum. Real millers often don't claim, or claim vanilla, because of this.

[ZeekLTK]

I don't see how you can think I am lying about being a Miller. Of all the roles to claim why would someone pick that?

You seem like you are trying to say "Don't lynch Gatorguy, investigate me instead since I, of course, am innocent, then you'll know if your investigation on Gatorguy is correct." You know what this tells me? You would only say this if you KNOW that your own investigation will return the same result as Gatorguy's! If Gatorguy comes up as scum, you just confirmed yourself as scum, bub, nice job. So let's get lynching.

What? I said if he investigates me and gets a guilty then he knows Gatorguy is mafia. The only way Gatorguy won't be mafia is if j-man gets an INNOCENT when he investigates me.

This means that my result will be the OPPOSITE of Gatorguy's if he really is mafia.

Here is the simple equation:

Me as guilty + Gatorguy as guilty = Gatorguy is mafia and j-man is the real cop
Me as innocent + Gatorguy as guilty = Gatorguy is a town and j-man is an insane cop

There's a 50% chance that Gatorguy is a town, so I don't see why you would vote for him yet. Why not wait until we are 100% sure one way or the other? All it takes to confirm this is to have j-man investigate me during the next night. And then we not only know Gatorguy's role, but we know j-man's sanity.

Then, if Gatorguy isn't mafia, we saved a townie and can look at all the people who were trying to lynch him the first day (like Off The Mark) and find our mafia there. And if he is mafia, well, we can lynch him!

However, what do you guys think about a no lynch? We have a lot of evidence and we can PROVE two people's roles tomorrow if j-man investigates me and won't end up lynching a townie today.

Even if I get killed at night, j-man will still have his investigation result from me. So all we need to do is:

-Doc protects j-man
-j-man investigates me

And then we're good to go for the next day and we have one more townie than we would have if we lynched one on day 1.


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Also, I already pointed out that it's not a good idea to vote for someone who the "cop" says is guilty when the cop himself thinks he is likely to be insane.

To me people voting for him are saying: "the cop thinks he is insane, and got a guilty - which would really mean innocent, so I'm going to vote for the guy".

If you have any doubts about j-man's sanity then voting for Gatorguy right now is a major ANTI-town move because you are admitting that there is a decent chance Gatorguy might be town, but you're still voting against him anyways.

So this is just one more scummy move by Off The Mark.


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I saw your next posts after I already typed that up (when I hit preview) so I'll respond here too so I don't have multiple posts in a row again.

Also, tell us more about your abilities. What can you do? I believe you should lynch all claimed millers on general principle. They're far more likely to be scum. Real millers often don't claim, or claim vanilla, because of this.

I'll go from the bottom up here. I don't see why you wouldn't claim if you were a miller. Like I've said a handful of times, only trouble can come (for the town) if a miller remains quiet. The cop investigates a miller, gets guilty, reveals himself as the cop, the town lynches the miller, and then what is the result? The town killed a townie and the cop is revealed and still no one knows who the mafia is! That doesn't seem like a good scenario so I wanted to claim as soon as possible.

This is my first game ever with a miller in it though, so I'm not aware of "other miller behavior". My immediate thought when I got the role was "shit, this is just going to screw the town over unless I let people know early".

For the first part... what can I do? I can give a guilty result to a sane cop and that screws the town over because he thinks he caught a mafia when he didn't. However, in this case, since we have a potential insane cop, I can help him determine his sanity if he investigates me.

[ZeekLTK]

err... I worded the first part wrong.

"This means that my result will be the OPPOSITE of Gatorguy's if he really is mafia."

I mean to say mine will be opposite if he is town, not mafia. And no, I do not "KNOW" whether or not we'll get the same result, which is why I think it's the best bet to investigate me and see. If it is opposite he's town. If not, he's mafia!

[ZeekLTK]

Ah fuck I ended up with multiple posts in a row anyways.

EBWOP - ok, when I posted I did not see Zeek's last two posts, so I didn't know he was claiming Miller. For this to make sense, you really should have said it when you first proposed that J-man investigate you.

So what episode is your "Miller" role from? Give us the Cartman flavor. You are lieing scum, d

I was going to wait on this to see if anyone tried to claim miller themselves to ask them what cartman they are. So... I dunno if I should reveal which one or not, because if you were pretending to be a miller, you probably wouldn't even think of this type of cartman. So I don't want to give the mafia any potential help to have them try to claim the role themselves.

However, if others besides OTM want me to state this then I will.

[Off the Mark]

Hmmm... you know what? Now that Zeek has claimed Miller, we CAN use him to test sanity, because we know for sure that Zeek will come up guilty in a sane cop's investigation. If he's telling the truth and he's a Miller --> guilty on investigation. If he's lying scum --> guilty on investigation.

Duh on me for not realizing this. And Zeek, you look scummy for not explaining it this way. You just kept saying "trust my claim" which is totally bogus.

The only way this will get messed up is if Zeek's a godfather. If he comes up innocent, he'll say "J-man is insane." I suppose the best thing to do at that point would be to operate under the premise that J-man is indeed insane, and then if a lynch demonstrates that J-man had a correct investigation, we need to immediately lynch Zeek.

Keep in mind, though, no matter the result of the sanity test on J-man, Zeek is not confirmed one way or the other between scum and miller. I consider it pro-town of course that he is helping us in this way, but it could be a ploy to gain trust, and also I don't find his manner of claiming particularly pro-town.

Delaying on revealing the Cartman flavor seems like it gives him more time to search through episodes for a plausible role. Shouldn't we post our flavor at the same time as we claim? I haven't played in many themed games, but that makes sense to me. J-man, I'd like to see your flavor / episode # too, now that Stewie has said we can share that.

[Off the Mark]

unvote

[J-man]

im still not so sure about the whole miller investagation thing now we have two potentially powerful roles outed :S gonna be an interesting night :S and you guys have missed 1 possibility that i get random results in which case the whole miller thing could be completly unhelpful but either way im not going to know til tommorow since we will wait on the Gatorgauy lynch.

the epi i am from btw is episode 813, (im psykic )

im pretty sure that a no lynch isn't a good idea for the exact problem that i might not only be insane but random aswell :S id forsure not vote no lynch today.

since this all has happened i guess a

Unvote{/b] is in place.

[J-man]

Unvote

[J-man]

Unvote

[J-man]

Unvote

[J-man]

ahh frik stupid thing wasn't working :S sry bout that

[Estes]

Wow, I miss one night and a lot of crap goes down.

So, to recap, J-man is cop, and Zeek is a Miller(what's a miller?).

[ryan]

Wow, I miss one night and a lot of crap goes down.

So, to recap, J-man is cop, and Zeek is a Miller(what's a miller?).

We're not sure if he's insane or not, that is the real question

[ZeekLTK]

Wow, I miss one night and a lot of crap goes down.

So, to recap, J-man is cop, and Zeek is a Miller(what's a miller?).

Miller means I'm a town but if a sane cop investigates me he gets a "guilty" result.

[Earwig]

I would like an official vote count before I vote. Also, I don't appreciate ANYONE trying to bully ANYONE, J-Man