Mini 472 - Cartman Mafia - Game Over

[Off the Mark]

Also, I don't appreciate ANYONE trying to bully ANYONE, J-Man

eh? what does this mean?

Agreed, if J-man is a random cop, then he is of no use whatsoever. It's very hard to find out if he's random though and it could cost us several mislynches. I'm going to watch the episode to see if I can figure it out. By the way, can someone explain to me how the epi #'s work? I couldn't even find my role's epi #. Does 813 mean season 8, epi 13?

I am leaning towards no lynch today. Or lynch ryan. Either one. When the population of the town is an even number, we can afford to no-lynch once.

Zeek could really be a miller, and ryan could still be scum. Ryan could have faked getting a town vibe from Zeek despite his scummy behaviour in order to look good to the town when Zeek came up innocent. Bottom line - Zeek was acting scummy and Ryan put him in his "town" list. That makes me very suspicious of Ryan, regardless of Zeek's alignment.

Zeek could be scum too, but I find it unlikely he would try to help us confirm the cop's sanity if he was scum. It would be an unusual ploy, but it's not beyond imagination.

[Stewie]

Vote Count:

By Count-Counter 2000 (note: didn't use it this time, but I will for the next vote count).

Earwig- 2 (SorintheSeeker, DeanWinchester)
DeanWinchester - 1 (ryan)
Off the Mark- 1 (ZeekLTK)
Gatorguy91 - 1 (ChaosOmega)
J-Man - 1 (Gatorguy91)

Not voting (4): Earwig, Estes, OfftheMark, J-Man

6 to lynch.

[ryan]

Also, I don't appreciate ANYONE trying to bully ANYONE, J-Man

eh? what does this mean?

Agreed, if J-man is a random cop, then he is of no use whatsoever. It's very hard to find out if he's random though and it could cost us several mislynches. I'm going to watch the episode to see if I can figure it out. By the way, can someone explain to me how the epi #'s work? I couldn't even find my role's epi #. Does 813 mean season 8, epi 13?

I am leaning towards no lynch today. Or lynch ryan. Either one. When the population of the town is an even number, we can afford to no-lynch once.

Zeek could really be a miller, and ryan could still be scum. Ryan could have faked getting a town vibe from Zeek despite his scummy behaviour in order to look good to the town when Zeek came up innocent. Bottom line - Zeek was acting scummy and Ryan put him in his "town" list.

That makes me very suspicious of Ryan, regardless of Zeek's alignment.

Zeek could be scum too, but I find it unlikely he would try to help us confirm the cop's sanity if he was scum. It would be an unusual ploy, but it's not beyond imagination.

^^This entire post smells of scum

That is completely a backward way to look at somebody. There are too many people that are using the "Ryan is scummy no matter what" argument and it's completely an anti town way to look at things. You are saying if Zeek is innocent than it doesn't matter I'm still scum is crap. What about looking back at people who said that Zeek was for sure scum and targeting them for a change? Your case on Zeek's scummy behavior has a ton of holes in it and isn't solid, I still think you've got a problem with him because he voted you, state a case with some evidence or move on, you are distracting the town with your jibberish

J-Man is NOT a useless character to us in finding scum, his vote still counts doesn't it? I'm not sure why you'd call him useless when he's just as important in lynching people as the next guy and if we find he's insane than we'll know early in the game. WHY you are suggesting a no lynch on day 1 is just insane to me. We aren't under any pressure to lynch anyone at this point (deadline wise I mean) so why panic? You are completely throwing wild ideas into the town's head to confuse us, an anti town move if you ask me.

Unvote/Vote: Off the Mark

Pretty quick to vote Gatorguy91 weren't ya? You are pretty willing to let a townie die on Day 1 with your "no lynch" approach AND calling J-Man useless is just plain not smart, especially after you JUST said in 189 we could use him to test J-Man. Zeek had nobody but you on him during this game with NO CASE and saying that it must make me scum is also wrong. Planting evidence on how I "must be scum" (when I know I'm town) is enough for me to put a pressure vote in your direction for your scummy behavior

[Estes]

vote:DeanWinchester

It's peculiar how he has just magically stopped posting. Hoping we ignore him maybe?

[J-man]

could we

prod

Dean and Sorin plz mod they havn't posted in a long time.

[ryan]

The same thing could be said about SorintheSeeker and ChaosOmega

[Off the Mark]

Ryan, you have reading comprehension issues. I'm not going to explain everything again, but let me just explain one thing. I said J-man was useless if he is a random cop - useless as a cop, of course. Yes his vote still counts, that is not what I was talking about.

You are incredibly paranoid or something, I really don't know what to think. Take a few deep breaths, calm down and read it again carefully.

I voted Gatorguy quickly because it made sense. We had to test J-man's sanity. Then when I realized we had a claimed Miller, I realized we could use him to test sanity without a lynch, so I think no-lynch makes the most sense for today. Do you not understand why no-lynch can be a pro-town move? When we have good info to work out, and an even numbered population, we can no-lynch to get a better lynch tomorrow and we won't fall behind at all in the endgame. Basically we still get the same # of lynches.

We have 10 alive right now. If we lynch, it's:

(I removed the other killing role from this analysis, as it is essentially random whether they kill scum or town and the other role may die at some point and that extra kill will go away - also I assumed 3 scum)

Day 1 - lynch, Night 1 - NK (8 alive)
Day 2 - lynch, Night 2 - NK (6 alive) <-- if no scum have been caught, game over

Now let's look at no-lynch:

Day 1 - no lynch, Night 1 - NK (9 alive)
Day 2 - lynch, Night 2 - NK (7 alive)
Day 3 - lynch, Night 3 - NK (5 alive) <-- if no scum have been caught, game over

So either way, we still have 2 lynches to kill scum. Now, it is true, if that other killing role kills a townie, we have less of a buffer to keep the game going. Hmmm... since we have another killing role, maybe a no lynch IS a bad idea after all. I just totally changed my mind while writing this post.

Day 1 - no lynch, Night 1 - NK, extra kill is a townie (8 alive)
Day 2 - lynch, Night 2 - NK, extra kill is a townie (6 alive, town loses)

Yeah, I changed my mind, I don't like the no-lynch. I don't want to lose the game with only one chance to lynch. So... I'm thinking we should just lynch Gatorguy.

[Off the Mark]

Ack! Estes there is a lot going on here and you are voting for a lurker?

HUGE FOS: Estes

[ryan]

Off the Mark: You go through that entire post of why a "no lynch" would be good ONLY to say at the end that you are against it and we should just lynch Gatorguy91? I said it once, I'll say it again, I believe you are distracting the town for a reason and thanks for proving me correct again.

[ryan]

Ack! Estes there is a lot going on here and you are voting for a lurker?

HUGE FOS: Estes

I don't want a lurker lynched but I can't say I have a problem voting for somebody who currently doesn't have any votes on him, maybe a pressure vote gets him posting again?

[Off the Mark]

Off the Mark: You go through that entire post of why a "no lynch" would be good ONLY to say at the end that you are against it and we should just lynch Gatorguy91? I said it once, I'll say it again, I believe you are distracting the town for a reason and thanks for proving me correct again.

No, I'm the only one reasoning it out.

Anyway, I've watched most of the episode and it is pretty obvious that J-man is insane, if this is his role. It's also possible he is paranoid. (always gets guilty result) Cartman claims to be a psychic and consistently fingers innocent people as guilty for murders.

[Off the Mark]

Yup, watched the whole episode, Cartman only fingers innocent people, so J-man is definitely either insane or paranoid.

[Estes]

Ack! Estes there is a lot going on here and you are voting for a lurker?

HUGE FOS: Estes

I don't want a lurker lynched but I can't say I have a problem voting for somebody who currently doesn't have any votes on him, maybe a pressure vote gets him posting again?

OtF, you're desperately searching for something to throw attention off of yourself. Really scummy to me(or at least extremely paranoid).

Exactly ryan, just a pressure vote.

[ZeekLTK]

I find it odd that Off The Mark seems to *know* that there are exactly 3 mafia...

[J-man]

lol another stupid comment couretsy of Zeek

[Gatorguy91]

lol another stupid comment couretsy of Zeek

Likewise.

[ZeekLTK]

How is that stupid? There is an unknown number of mafia, but Off The Mark made a whole post where his entire theory of how many "lynches we had left" was based on there being exactly 3 mafia.

No one knows how many mafia there are except the mod and the actual mafia...

[ryan]

lol another stupid comment couretsy of Zeek

Why exactly are you sticking up for Off The Mark? I think it's a valid question, we don't know how many mafia there might be.

[SorintheSeeker]

Going down the thread again and pointing out stuff:


Post 80 J-man calls out Gatorguy for having two contradictory reasons for voting for two different bandwagons. I agree with that.


Just reading through pages 4-6 I got feelings that Off the Mark is scum based on a variety of his responses and statements. The strongest being Zeek's post 115 which deals with Off the Mark voting for Earwig, then unvoting and pointing suspicion on people who voted for Earwig, then listing two of his top three suspicions as people who bandwagoned against his other suspect.


Agree with ChaosOmega on post 136 that Zeek shouldn't be jumping to conclusions saying "Off the Mark is definitely mafia." Very suspicious yes, definite no.


J-man saying "im done listening im ready to kill Gatorguy91" is hugely suspicious to me. Don't know if I believe his excuse about that being the term in meatworld mafia... I've never heard that before.

However, I could totally see this being a mafia move.

-Claim cop hoping the real cop shows himself.
-Claim that you might be insane so that if we lynch a townie you can just say "oh, well I guess I'm insane" and take no responsibility for killing a townie. Then, you can get another townie lynched later by saying you got an innocent on someone. After that you'll obviously be found out as a fraud and killed, but you would have killed two townies via lynching (and 2 more during those nights) and have thrown everyone off.

That scares me, as it could be incredibly effective if that is J-man's plan.


Okay so I went through all 9 pages. It's time to make a vote and move on. If we had ended the day last week I would have voted earwig, but since then he hasn't done anything that's made me suspicious while tons of other people have. So

unvote

there. I'm not voting no lynch, that's ridiculous. We need to catch a mafia and who knows what will happen with doctors or vigilantes, so basing it on even/odd is not going to help.


Looking through all my suspicions one person really stood out as highly suspicious: Off the Mark. Multiple times and multiple arguments he seemed, coincidentally, to be clearly "off the mark." The last thing with being confident there are 3 mafia was just icing on the cake. I am

vote: Off the Mark.

[Off the Mark]

Sorin and Zeek are mafia, I am almost sure. Either mafia or dumb as posts. I'll happily vote myself out of this game if I'm wrong, I don't enjoy playing with morons.

[Off the Mark]

I specifically said my analysis "assumed 3 mafia". Geesh. Again - reading comprehension issues. Do you know what "assume" means?

[ryan]

Sorin and Zeek are mafia, I am almost sure. Either mafia or dumb as posts.

I'll happily vote myself out of this game if I'm wrong, I don't enjoy playing with morons

.

Very pro town.

[Off the Mark]

Alright, look, I'm sorry I posted while frustrated, but this game has gotten on my nerves a bit. I feel I was the only one correctly breaking down the J-man/Zeek situation and all I get for my trouble is suspicion and votes. Please read my analysis and consider it carefully. I think my pro-town play is self-evident and it is frustrating when other players read it and their conclusion is "this guy has to be scum." I honestly cannot understand that.

[Off the Mark]

By the way, I am most sure about Sorin.

vote: SorintheSeeker

Reasons:

Just reading through pages 4-6 I got feelings that Off the Mark is scum based on a variety of his responses and statements. The strongest being Zeek's post 115 which deals with Off the Mark voting for Earwig, then unvoting and pointing suspicion on people who voted for Earwig, then listing two of his top three suspicions as people who bandwagoned against his other suspect.

I explained that quite clearly - twice. You don't even acknowledge my explanation here.

J-man saying "im done listening im ready to kill Gatorguy91" is hugely suspicious to me. Don't know if I believe his excuse about that being the term in meatworld mafia... I've never heard that before.

Kill vs. Lynch - I still don't see how this can possibly seem suspicious. I've seen many many games where people say "kill" while referring to a lynch - that's what a lynch is, isn't it? This is grasping at straws to cast suspicion on a claimed cop.

That scares me, as it could be incredibly effective if that is J-man's plan.

Again, trying to make the town doubt the claimed cop. Appeal to emotion (fear) too.

The last thing with being confident there are 3 mafia was just icing on the cake.

I had to make an assumption in order to do an analysis. 3 is typical for a game of this size. Please quote where I am confident, liar.

[Off the Mark]

Sorry for the triple post, but I also wanted to say I will not lynch myself, that was speaking from frustration there. Sorry for the outburst.