Off the Mark wrote:Also, Ryan, my "lynch Gatorguy" comment was before I watched the episode and became almost certain that J-man is paranoid or insane. Now I think Gatorguy is nearly confirmed town, based on that psychic Cartman episode.
Thank you for clarifying that. I must have missed your reasoning for Estes being scum (in your opinion) could you clarify that please?
[i]Please remove your head from your ass before you vote.[/i]
Eh, I probably shouldn't have mentioned that yet. I should have given him time to give him more rope to hang himself with. Let's just see what happens before I make a case against him.
Looking back through I don't know if I like how he re-appeared after being quiet for quite a few pages, placed a vote and than bailed. Call it a pressure vote or whatever you like but I'd like to hear more from him (such as what he thinks of current players) before I lift my vote.
[i]Please remove your head from your ass before you vote.[/i]
ryan would you mind changing your sig? I am not crazy about feeling insulted at the end of every one of your posts. It doesn't make you look like the nicest guy either.
One of the reasons I think you are misguided town is because I have read one of your scum games and you were very careful not to stick out of the crowd too much in that one. In this one, you have been quite aggressive.
Off the Mark wrote:ryan would you mind changing your sig? I am not crazy about feeling insulted at the end of every one of your posts. It doesn't make you look like the nicest guy either.
One of the reasons I think you are misguided town is because I have read one of your scum games and you were very careful not to stick out of the crowd too much in that one. In this one, you have been quite aggressive.
Is that a better sig? Just for you OtM, a one day only sig to make everyone feel better about themselves.
I won't disagree, I have been extremely agressive in this game and will continue to do so. Putting the scum on alert is ALOT OF FUN
[i]Please remove your head from your ass before you vote.[/i]
ChaosOmega wrote:It also could be seen as a miller, with Cartman hating ginger kids, and he's a ginger, but he's also Cartman. But you could be right as well.
But we want to keep ZeekLTK alive until tomorrow to check the sanity of J-man. Unless...you want him lynched to keep J-man's sanity a mystery?
unvote, vote Gatorguy91
So this is the 2nd time that ChaosOmega has tried to throw accusations at Gatorguy after j-man's reveal.
The first time, okay, maybe it was an innocent mistake and he overlooked the sanity part (that's unlikely though, he just saw "cop" and it said someone other than him or his mafia buddies was "guilty" so he jumped on it). But come on, we're not lynching Gatorguy because we can PROVE whether he is mafia or not tomorrow. Why would you want to lynch him before we have proof? Only the mafia would want to do that.
ChaosOmega wrote:It also could be seen as a miller, with Cartman hating ginger kids, and he's a ginger, but he's also Cartman. But you could be right as well.
But we want to keep ZeekLTK alive until tomorrow to check the sanity of J-man. Unless...you want him lynched to keep J-man's sanity a mystery?
unvote, vote Gatorguy91
So this is the 2nd time that ChaosOmega has tried to throw accusations at Gatorguy after j-man's reveal.
The first time, okay, maybe it was an innocent mistake and he overlooked the sanity part (that's unlikely though, he just saw "cop" and it said someone other than him or his mafia buddies was "guilty" so he jumped on it). But come on, we're not lynching Gatorguy because we can PROVE whether he is mafia or not tomorrow. Why would you want to lynch him before we have proof? Only the mafia would want to do that.
unvote Off The Mark; vote ChaosOmega
That was the same reason I dropped a vote on Sorin, looked too opportunistic when he came out and voted (after being silent for awhile now) and hasn't said anything since.
ChaosOmega: Who are your top three scum suspects and why?
[i]Please remove your head from your ass before you vote.[/i]
Okay so right now we've had 11 pages and still don't have a consensus on who could be mafia.
I realized I've pretty much only been going after Off The Mark and now ChaosOmega and kinda ignored other things going on. So I went back and made a recap of the game. I'll post it so others can see and maybe see any trends or behavior that sticks out that I might not notice.
I just went through and tried to be unbiased and just recorded what happened. I'll re-read it later and come to my conclusions from it. Hopefully this helps us catch someone who maybe would have slipped through unnoticed otherwise.
P1:
j-man questions Off The Mark as a replacement (since he could have been replaced too but wasn’t)
Dean questions OTM’s response with “WTF? Explain” even though there was nothing more to explain
j-man calls out Gatorguy with an IGMEOY
Estes posts but doesn’t vote
OTM explains to Dean anyways
OTM puts a 2nd vote on j-man and says OMGUS
j-man thinks that OTM is a replacement because mafia couldn’t talk until their last guy was in
P2:
Mod confirms that this is not the reason that OTM was a replacement
j-man - FOS: Dean and Estes
ryan questions the FOS saying it’s too early for that
earwig agrees with ryan and votes j-man (3rd vote against j-man)
Dean makes it known that he agrees as well, but no vote
OTM says j-man is trying too hard
Sorin’s first post – is upset that 2 people are already dead, tries to determine number of masons and doesn’t vote
j-man defends his antics saying he was just trying to get the game moving
OTM calls out earwig for his vote on j-man, also FOS: Sorin for “showing emotion”
Earwig apologizes for his vote and unvotes
j-man claims earwig’s vote wasn’t the third then calls out earwig for apologizing
I point out that it was the third and say it was shady to apologize – I vote for earwig
OTM agrees that earwig “Backed off too fast”
P3:
Sorin agrees with me about earwig and votes, also defends his “emotion” from before
Estes pulls his random vote and says no one other than earwig is suspicious, but won’t put his vote on him because he doesn’t want to “accidentally start a bandwagon”
Dean says “the earwig thing does seem really odd” and votes for earwig
Chaos calls out Estes and says a bandwagon has already started – he votes for Estes and says he would vote for earwig except “it’s way too early to put anyone at L-1” (I don’t think it was that close though)
Gatorguy unvotes j-man and votes for Dean questioning why he put earwig at “L-3”, then proceeds to FOS: earwig in the same post
OTM unvotes earwig and FOS: me and Dean for being “too eager to jump on the bandwagon”
I point out that OTM was quick to do the same thing against j-man earlier
Estes laughs off Chaos’ suspicion and says his style just confuses people
Chaos says he voted for Estes because Estes was overly cautious
OTM votes for me because I sounded confident when I suggested he was a mafia buddy with earwig
Dean responds to Gatorguy and says “L-2 on page 3 is fine” and suggests we can find mafia based on who is willing to hammer, also says he doesn’t like Estes’ posts
j-man defends Estes somewhat (says some players just look scummy all the time)
Dean suggests Estes should change his style and not play scummy
Estes defends himself saying he’s accused because he hasn’t voted and said that he hasn’t seen strong enough evidence yet
I respond to OTM and begin the “inquisition” against him, also point out that Estes had voted for me before with for reason at all
Dean continues to argue with Estes saying Estes ignored his comment about “always playing scummy”
Ryan defends Estes saying “hesitating to vote isn’t scummy”
OTM responds to my long post to defend himself
Estes continues to defend himself against Dean
j-man questions Estes’ defense
Dean keeps pressing Estes
P4:
Dean and Estes keep going back and forth
Earwig responds to an OTM comment from several pages ago to reassure him that his vote on j-man was “completely random bro”
Earwig responds to my vote against him for apologizing saying he didn’t check votes before voting and that was why he apologized
Gatorguy presses Dean to respond to his vote
j-man says enough with the earwig bandwagon and wants to pressure lurkers
j-man starts to make his case against Gatorguy and also makes cases against both Chaos and Dean; Dean for his attack on Estes for basically nothing and Chaos for low activity and the fact that all he’s done is, like Dean, attack Estes
OTM agrees with j-man that Dean looks fishy (trying too hard to make others look scummy)
ChaosOmega attacks OTM for changing his stance on earwig (originally agreed with me and then voted for me for bandwagoning), says he is not sure about Dean
OTM responds to Chaos’ attack, said he looked over it again and changed his mind
j-man says he didn’t consider Dean scummy so he is curious as to why Off the Mark “agreed with him” about Dean
ryan questions OTM, Estes, and Chaos
OTM responds with his list of top 3 suspects: me, Dean, and earwig but says we don’t know much yet
Ryan disagrees with this last comment and says we have plenty of information already
j-man puts and FOS: ryan for the questions he posted to others
ryan asks why j-man is quick to not answer his questions
OTM points out that ryan didn’t ask j-man any questions
Ryan tries to spin it off and continues to pressure j-man
OTM again tries to make his point to ryan about j-man
Ryan continues his defense of his Q&A
Estes answers the question posed to him, says j-man seems “ok so far” and Gatorguy hasn’t posted enough to form an opinion, says he is also suspicious of Dean for Dean’s attack against him and then the fact that Dean has been quiet ever since
P5:
Gatorguy says he is still waiting for Dean to respond and won’t do anything til he hears his defense
j-man responds to ryan’s previous comments and says why he has a problem with ryan asking questions but not answering any himself – says it’s a “quality scum tell” on ryan
Dean says he has been quiet because he was reading Harry Potter but he finished it. Asks “what is the argument against me?” and tries to point out that no one else has commented on Estes’ words “that’s just how I play, don’t lynch me”
Gatorguy shows Dean why he voted for him (by quoting a former post)
Ryan wonders why OTM is attacking Sorin for “showing emotion”, says he didn’t like earwig’s “apology”, says Dean was quick to jump on earwig, questions why Chaos wouldn’t vote for earwig, then makes his list of sum, not sure, and town… has OTM, Dean, and earwig in scum, me and Estes in town (doesn’t say why though) – ends post with a vote for Dean
OTM responds to ryan’s comment about Sorin and says that “showing emotion” is a common scum tell but says that he thinks Sorin is just a newbie now and not mafia – begins to become suspicious of ryan and questions why both he and Dean are on the scumlist even though he voted for Dean (//my note: hmmm… kinda like how OTM’s scum list had me, Dean, and earwig??)
Ryan defends why he has OTM and Dean on the list, says Dean is the “scummiest so far” because he keeps “posting then disappearing”
j-man questions why ryan put me on his town list and has other issues
ryan addresses all of j-mans concerns
Estes says he wants to think Dean is mafia, but then says he thinks Dean was just “hoping he had a lead, [rather] than actually being mafia”. Throws some suspicion about Gatorguy saying “he usually talks more”
Dean says his scumlist is me, ryan, and Estes – mainly because ryan put me in his town list “for no real reason”
I point out Chaos’ post where he attacked OTM and make a big argument against OTM concluding with changing my vote to him
Ryan questions Dean’s scum list
OTM again defends himself against my attacks, says he is feeling a stronger reason to vote for me and is beginning to agree with Dean that ryan might be scum
OTM also questions why ryan put me in his “town” category when he could have put me in “unsure”
OTM tries to defend his scumlist that he made (me, Dean, and earwig) and again brings up “emotion” as a way to attack me back
Ryan wonders why OTM is suddenly siding with Dean when Dean made a “poor argument”
OTM says he is just keeping an open mind and that he is less suspicious of Dean now
Ryan defends why he put me on his town list
P6:
OTM says ryan used my “most ridiculous” posts as reason to believe I’m town
OTM and ryan argue for a bit about the “ridiculousness” of my post
I come in and re-explain my point about earwig and j-man bandwagons and try to connect OTM and earwig as mafia partners
OTM says my “confidence” that he is mafia is making me look scummy
Chaos says he “believes” earwig that it was a random vote on j-man, then says I am acting “pretty suspicious”, posts why, and votes for me, goes back and questions why ryan has me as town
Estes, for some reason, is trying to justify why me and him voted for each other during the random stage – my guess is because ryan has him on the town list too so he is trying to distance himself from me, although I don’t know why because we didn’t appear to be working together anyways - and says it was because we were “messing around”, also says it is hard to tell who is mafia and analyzes the situation as: “Zeek & ryan vs OTM & Chaos” and says he is stalemated with Dean… still does not vote
j-man says Estes’ post cleared up some things for him
earwig still can’t figure out why voting and then apologizing for his vote is “shady”, he is still claiming it’s a random vote and that’s all. Also questions why ryan put me in his town list and FOS: ryan because of it
ryan responds to earwig the same way he did to everyone else who questioned his list
earwig wonders why ryan has ANYONE on a “town list” and why he seemed “a little steamed” that I was on other scum lists
Estes says he considers j-man a pro-town player
Ryan and earwig debate about ryan being concerned about me on people’s list – ryan says its because he thinks I am pro-town so is wondering why others thing I am not, earwig says “fair enough” and ceases the questioning
P7:
j-man votes for Gatorguy with no explanation
OTM says he’d like to hear more from Gatorguy
Gatorguy asks j-man why the vote is on him
Ryan answers and says “we want to hear some content from you”
Earwig says he wants to hear more too
Gaotrguy deflects pressure to Dean saying he is waiting on Dean to respond
Estes agrees that Dean needs to post
Ryan points out that Dean just posted a few days ago and OTM agrees and pushes Gatorguy to talk about other people besides Dean.
j-man says he’s “ready to kill Gatorguy”
Ryan puts j-man on “FOS” for saying “kill”
j-man explains why he said “kill” – doesn’t think it’s any different from “lynch”
OTM asks j-man to make his case against Gatorguy and votes for ryan for pointing out the word, says I have been too aggressive, but thinks ryan is scummy and wants to put pressure on him
j-man claims cop, got a guilty on Gatorguy, and says because of the episode he thinks he has sanity issues
Chaos immediately votes for Gatorguy without questioning the claim
Gatorguy says that j-man is not the real cop and votes for him
Ryan defends his attack on j-man’s choice of words
Ryan sort of questions whether j-man is the cop or not
Gatorguy says j-man is either scum or the worst cop ever and claims to be vanilla town
j-man responds to ryan and also points out that he is not sure of his sanity (again)
P8:
Ryan says he is 50/50 on j-man being cop/scum
I admit I’ve been over aggressive against OTM and reveal that I am the miller so that j-man can test his sanity on me but I remind people he could also be mafia trying to get the real cop to claim
OTM says me and ryan seem really scummy due to our reactions about j-man claiming, he then votes for Gatorguy, says that his new scumlist is me, gatorguy, and ryan
Then realizes I claimed miller and asks me more about it
I respond and explain how I can help the town because of my guilty result – no townie would claim miller, especially in this case, if he was going to produce an innocent result because that would hurt the town
OTM realizes that now I am most likely to be town and now understands how this will help, so he unvotes Gatorguy
j-man says he is not sure about the miller thing but is open to try it and then unvotes Gatorguy as well. He reveals the episode he’s from here too.
Estes provides a recap that j-man is a cop and I’m a miller (still doesn’t vote)
Earwig says he doesn’t appriciate ANYONE trying to bully j-man (who was?)
P9:
OTM wonders what earwig’s comment means, tries to reason out what my claim means (I know this must have caught him off guard because he was sure I was mafia), still manages to throw blame at ryan
Ryan responds to OTM’s post and eventually votes for him
Estes finally votes… for Dean
OTM makes the post where he tries to figure out how many lynches we have to find a mafia and concludes that we have 2. FOS: Estes for voting a lurker
Ryan comments on OTM’s long post and defend’s Estes’ vote saying it’s good to pressure lurkers
OTM confirms that he was “reasoning it out” and says he watched the episode and thinks j-man is most likely to be an insane cop
Estes says OTM is “desperately searching for something to throw attention off of yourself” in response to the FOS against him
I point out that OTM seems to “*know*” that there are 3 mafia and how that is odd because no one knows for sure
j-man says my comment is stupid, Gatorguy responds to j-man with “likewise”
I ask how it’s stupid and explain my logic behind making it
Ryan asks why j-man is sticking up for OTM
Sorin makes a long post, thinks OTM is scum based on P4-6, and he agrees with one of my long posts (#115) as his reason, says I shouldn’t be jumping to conclusions though. Also says he is “scared” that j-man could really hurt the town if he’s mafia pretending to be an insane cop. Ends up voting for OTM.
OTM responds to Sorin’s post by saying that me and Sorin “are mafia”.
OTM points out that he said “assumed 3 mafia” – I missed that so I don’t push it anymore
OTM says he would “happily vote himself off…” and ryan points out that isn’t very pro-town.
OTM says he was just frustrated when he made that post but he is still “sure” about Sorin and votes for him.
P10:
Ryan still defending why he called out j-man several pages ago about using “kill” vs “lynch”
I ask why OTM is acting like j-man is the “real cop” when it’s clear he’s not
OTM points out that insane is still a “real cop” (which is true…)
Chaos unvotes for Gatorguy and says there is “too many sanity issues to be sure”. He goes on to make a long post about why he suspects me, but then says the town needs me to help determine j-man’s sanity so he seemingly randomly votes for Dean saying “you haven’t posted much”.
j-man posts FOS: Sorin and says ryan or Sorin is “our play for the day”
OTM agrees with Sorin’s accusations against me
I respond to OTM and Chaos’ accusations and then pretty much accuse them back
Chaos defends his vote against Gatorguy and tries to say that we aren’t sure that j-man has sanity problems (which is true, but it’s very likely he does)
OTM pushes for me to reveal my episode, I’m suspicious of him and Chaos so I say I will when pro-town players ask for it.
Ryan, Estes, and j-man ask for it, okay at least one of them has to be town so I reveal that I am Ginger cartman and explain why that makes me a miller (I look different from the others)
Gatorguy thinks I am the serial killer and votes for me
Chaos jumps on a chance to vote for Gatorguy again and does do
Gatorguy backs off and says he just wanted to see my response (doesn’t unvote though)
I respond – serial killer should have an episode that Cartman kills someone shouldn’t it? I re-explain why ginger cartman is miller
OTM reminds everyone we need to keep Gatorguy and me alive to determine j-man’s sanity
Ryan points out where OTM previously said we should lynch Gatorguy
OTM says he wasn’t sure why he wanted to lynch Gatorguy earlier, know says he thinks ryan is a misguided townie and doesn’t think he is mafia anymore. Says Sorin and Estes are his two main suspects now.
OTM tells the serial killer to try to target mafia at night (what brought this up??)
OTM goes back and has come up with an explanation for why he wanted to lynch Gatorguy before: says it was before he watched the episode to determine j-man was most likely insane
P11:
Ryan wonders why OTM has Estes as mafia
OTM says he shouldn’t have listed Estes yet because he wanted to get more evidence on him without tipping it off that he was suspicious of him
Ryan votes for Sorin saying he looked back through and didn’t like how Sorin appeared, made a vote, and left again – also wants to hear more from him
OTM explains why he thinks ryan is a townie now – ryan isn’t playing like he played in a previous game that he was scum
Ryan agrees that he is playing different
OTM points out that Gatorguy claimed Vanilla and asks for the episode
I see that Chaos has again voted for Gatorguy even though the town has made it clear we don’t want to lynch him until we determine j-man’s sanity, so I change my vote to Chaos
Ryan says Sorin was the same way, “too opportunistic”, and that’s why he voted for Sorin
Gatorguy reveals his episode
Ryan asks Gatorguy for opinions on Chaos, Dean, and Earwig
Gatorguy says Dean is bangwagon happy and isn’t sure about Chaos. Thinks earwig is a newbie.
Ryan wonders what Gatorguy means by “newbie”
This post is made
Zeek - what was the point of that? Do you think reading that mess is easier than just reading the thread? (and yes, I actually read it)
Some of your interpretations of what happened in a given post miss the main point, but I'm not going to go break down every single time this happened.
I'll just answer this question:
Zeek wrote:OTM tells the serial killer to try to target mafia at night (what brought this up??)
When Gatorguy suspected Zeek of being the SK, it reminded me that we DO most likely have an SK, since there were 2 kills on the first night. Well, actually one of them was an "arrest", so maybe we have a "bad cop" who is functionally an SK. Anyway... I decided I might as well try to convince the SK to target mafia, for both their own good and the town's.
1. SorintheSeeker: As I stated before, your last post was just a repeat of arguments from before. I went back and looked it over again, and saw you voted Off the Mark. He was starting to pick up votes, and you jump in with an un-informative post to throw another vote on him. Just seems like you wanted to make sure he got lynched. It also doesn't help that you've posted 3 times the entire game. I was getting on DeanWinchester for posting, and I saw he's posted over 3 times more than you. Granted, I think his largest post is smaller than your smallest post, but you definitely need to post more.
2. ZeekLTK: Before your last post, I would have bet money that you were scum. Your last post changes my opinion a bit. I still think you're scum, but now there's that seed of doubt. Earlier, you were very accusatory, saying things like "Oh, he has to be scum". Maybe you are a miller, I don't know. But right now, I'm sticking with my first instinct.
3. DeanWinchester: You haven't made that many posts all game, and most of them haven't been very useful.
Off the Mark wrote:Zeek - what was the point of that? Do you think reading that mess is easier than just reading the thread? (and yes, I actually read it)
Some of your interpretations of what happened in a given post miss the main point, but I'm not going to go break down every single time this happened.
I'll just answer this question:
Zeek wrote:OTM tells the serial killer to try to target mafia at night (what brought this up??)
When Gatorguy suspected Zeek of being the SK, it reminded me that we DO most likely have an SK, since there were 2 kills on the first night. Well, actually one of them was an "arrest", so maybe we have a "bad cop" who is functionally an SK. Anyway... I decided I might as well try to convince the SK to target mafia, for both their own good and the town's.
OtM: Is it possible though we have a SK who wins if he's a sole survivor?
[i]Please remove your head from your ass before you vote.[/i]
It's still on zeek? Damn, forgot. That was a vote for the response
unvote
Well, anyway I'm suspicious of Off The Mark, Dean whinchester, and Estes
mod DW needs prodding
OTM, as well as J-man to a certain point seem to be using Argumentum ad Hominem https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... the_Person against ZeekLTK, claiming not to answer his questions because they are stupid.
Dean just can't defend himself.
Estes has been hardcore lurking..
Gatorguy, I am in 2 games with you and in both of them you are voting me for no reason whatsoever.
Yes, I have thought some of Zeek's arguments have been stupid. But since he finally shared the details of his role, I have said he most likely really is a miller after all.
Please quote some of my posts where I "did not answer his questions because they were stupid". That never happened, you pulled that out of thin air.
Besides, you thought he was the SK after his flavor reveal. And now you are attacking me for attacking him? You're all over the map.
I'm very curious to see how the J-man sanity test plays out. Maybe Gatorguy is scum after all and J-man is a sane cop. I still tend to think he's insane though, and Gatorguy is just a little confused.
Let me make this clear, Gatorguy - I am in the "Do the sanity check" camp - keep Zeek alive, and have J-man investigate him. This is your only chance of being cleared. By voting for me, you are establishing yourself as "Against the sanity check" - which only makes sense for you to do if you are scum.
Unless you want to clearly state that you agree with all my analysis, but you still want to vote to lynch me. That'd be a little weird, but feel free. Is there something about my playstyle that rubs you the wrong way? Is it my avatar? Because it's seriously weird that you seem predisposed to vote for me in two different games where I've given you no reason to do so. Oh well.
ryan wrote:
OtM: Is it possible though we have a SK who wins if he's a sole survivor?
Yeah, isn't that always the case? My point was, the SK needs to keep townies alive in order to hide amongst them. If he kills off the town, the mafia will immediately know who the SK is, because he'll be the only one left alive who's not mafia.
