In post 206, Quilford wrote:Also Metal Sonic making 331 posts in 3 days in Twin Trap and being absolutely wrong in pretty much all of them >__>
In post 207, Quilford wrote:It was kind of beautiful though. Like, nobody has ever been that wrong before and nobody ever will again?
In post 217, Wisdom wrote:In post 212, Metal Sonic wrote:look at ika provide the only scum win in team mafia 2015
ika and ank, that is
In post 217, Wisdom wrote:In post 212, Metal Sonic wrote:look at ika provide the only scum win in team mafia 2015
ika and ank, that is
In post 226, xRECKONERx wrote:@zor: But seriously, should those surveys have been sent out already?
Also, our team PT is staying private, so I'll just reiterate here that the replace outs were bullshit, and forcing me/GreyICE into the same game because his team was flaky is also massive amounts of bullshit.
In post 238, Quilford wrote:In post 212, Metal Sonic wrote:In post 206, Quilford wrote:Also Metal Sonic making 331 posts in 3 days in Twin Trap and being absolutely wrong in pretty much all of them >__>
I was up for lynching you -> ETL so not that wrong? I still would have won the game.
Sure. And I guess all those peeps at Jonestown who had doubts about the Kool-Aid felt really vindicated after drinking it
In post 241, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 234, Cephrir wrote:mod error was by no means easy, but I'm not sure that's actually because of the scum making it hard for us so much as the fact that every surviving townie on day 3 was completely insane, myself included
Mod Error would've been about 70% easier if Wisdom had taken his meds and just calmed the fuck down.
Scum just hid in plain sight and it wasn't until we actually cut down on some of the noise that we were able to get to it. shos & LLD were both pretty apparent on D1, in hindsight, but there was so much other shit going on and so much noise that we couldn't see it.
In post 243, wgeurts wrote:Espeonage was buisy with uni so :/
My reads in all the other games were a lot more acurate than in my own. I had shos/TierShift nailed straight away. Once I finished catching up in the large I had AD correct as well.
Also.
MS I WAS RIGHT DAMMIT.
I need to trust myself more, the VN scum team made me doubt myself.
In post 254, Quilford wrote:Metal Sonic wrote:In post 238, Quilford wrote:In post 212, Metal Sonic wrote:In post 206, Quilford wrote:Also Metal Sonic making 331 posts in 3 days in Twin Trap and being absolutely wrong in pretty much all of them >__>
I was up for lynching you -> ETL so not that wrong? I still would have won the game.
Sure. And I guess all those peeps at Jonestown who had doubts about the Kool-Aid felt really vindicated after drinking it
Well sorry bro. Like I said, I thought you were an evil scum mastermind. Be complimented. I overestimated your scum game.
I was on the right track with lynching ETL after you and becoming obvtown, so you can say that I was wrong and infuriating and all that but by no means was my play bad and you should never try to sell it that way ?_?
Nope, and I don't buy your 'another nail in ETL's coffin' stuff either. It was going to be ETL and then Molla anyway, all you did was distract by pouring shit onto me. I also don't buy that you would have definitely lynched ETL after mislynching me, your posts at the end of day definitely point towards increasing worry about Patrick. You even explained to him why ETL was town and said she had the second best JF interactions(lol)
Your play was bad, not just irritating but bad, you were utterly confbiased and not open to the possibility of being wrong about me. All you did was clutter up the thread and increase the possibility that I or Patrick could have been mislynched. A humble person would admit that
In post 272, fferyllt wrote:In post 266, Metal Sonic wrote:If the town in the normal loses, though. Gestalt is 4-0.
Nope. we lost whit flag.
In post 274, Wisdom wrote:In post 266, Metal Sonic wrote:If the town in the normal loses, though. Gestalt is 4-0.
Nope, they're 3-1.
Young and Beautiful are 4-0, and win if town loses the normal.
In post 279, Gammagooey wrote:white flag was the one game I wanted my team to be scum in regardless of who was in it
Statistically it should be a town win more often than it is but I think white flag is 100% about how well scum can manipulate the town.
In post 277, Untrod Tripod wrote:In post 237, zoraster wrote:
that's a good question. I was planning on doing them after all games have completed, but in hindsight, doing it as each finished probably would have been better.
Replacements are a tricky question. The issue is that in a game with 64 players you're simply going to have a lot of replacements, and doing it in a way that gives teams some control is in keeping with the team mafia theme. We could pretend that replacements should never happen, but that would simply degrade the games.
or maybe don't allow people who have already gotten lynched replace into games
maybe
that was complete and utter horseshit
In post 283, Cephrir wrote:Yeah, it's a shame that my sole contribution to that game was basically fucking it upIn post 261, Titus wrote:I probably should have pleaded to get my team replaced sooner in the Large. I was the only one really posting and that was a problem. We should have killed UT and Singer the night I died but Cephrir wanted a quick win push and I should not have died.
Granted, we still would've lost terribly
Also, I think we deserve a little more credit than "scum in mod error sucked at claiming." We wagoned tier in the first place correctly and I at least was still going to lynch him no matter what he claimed
shos did fuck up pretty terribly though
In post 287, Untrod Tripod wrote:oh man, having one of the not-allowed-in teams be a replacement pool that doubles as its own team as people replace in would be baller as fuck
In post 284, pieguyn wrote:i got snowballed by BBT and Regfan in white flag btw. i kept thinking both BBT and Regfan were scum and going "WTF HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE", then i gave up and figured it was just Reg + CES.
i did a double take when the game ended
In post 290, zoraster wrote:In post 286, Untrod Tripod wrote:I mean it's just a game and everything and I'll stop being annoyed about it by the time I finish this post, but the mod team severely fucked up by allowing GreyICE to replace in and I really hope you understand that
Why?
Also, could you explain your suggestion?
In post 294, zoraster wrote:The problem is the asymmetry of it. There were 13 replacements this time around.
My issue with a simple pool, and why I didn't do it that way, is one of the nice things about Team Mafia is you can pick and choose who is on your team. Forcing replacements on a team may be justified, but it removes some of that feeling.
In post 297, xRECKONERx wrote:Yeah, if you have a teammate flake, your fault for having bad teammates?
GreyICE was allowed to replace into a game that I was in. I've gone out of my way to avoid him. You, zoraster, should know better than anyone why me/Grey shouldn't be in the same game sinceyou modded Always On. I was then forced to deal with Grey replacing in and bringing personal shit into the game with me, and was forced to deal with that even thoughIspecifically avoided him andour teamdidn't have any fucking replacements. I got boned.
In post 302, Wisdom wrote:I don't get what is your point against the replacement system as it was, MS. What is wrong with people selecting who they want for their team?
In post 305, zoraster wrote:In post 297, xRECKONERx wrote:Yeah, if you have a teammate flake, your fault for having bad teammates?
I mean I understand the rationale, but my goal is to provide a competitive and whole experience for everyone. The earlier that a team checks out on Team Mafia, the worse the experience will be for everyone involved, including teams not on that team.
Plus, players and teams will just be more likely to try to dodge replacement for as long as possible, which isn't conducive to a good experience.
In post 312, Zachrulez wrote:Bussing also disadvantages the scum in a nightless game Metal, particularly because it helps town get scum lynches when they'd otherwise need unanimous town support for.
In post 329, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I think it's a teams responsibility to cater for their players.
You should be committed to the game when you sign up; if you don't think you can commit the time then don't sign up. Simple as that.
Slots should get 3 prods and then they're mod killed. This would increase activity/engagement and encourage good team selection.
In post 331, Quilford wrote:Hah, I've gotta say, whenever Marquis looks like he's experimenting with his playstyle (like he did here with all the happy and the !s), that's a rock solid scumtell for him. I'm pretty sure I called that early in our PT
In post 335, xRECKONERx wrote:In post 327, zoraster wrote:You both should have been capable of behaving for a single game.
Correct.
And he proved he wasn't, and then nothing was done about it.
In post 330, zoraster wrote:For what it's worth, Empire (then Zar) spent 3 tokens on Vanilla Nightless to be town and rolled scum. Which he was convinced was a mod error, but certainly wasn't. One issue was he got unlucky. The other issue is that all but 4 teams spent tokens on being town in that game. It had the most tokens per player spent of any of the games. I guess lots agreed that it's a town sided setup.
In post 341, Quilford wrote:Metal Sonic wrote:In post 331, Quilford wrote:Hah, I've gotta say, whenever Marquis looks like he's experimenting with his playstyle (like he did here with all the happy and the !s), that's a rock solid scumtell for him. I'm pretty sure I called that early in our PT
<3
I was aggressively wrong about 99% of Reck's game, UT's game, and Sleepy's game AND even a signidicant portion of my game too but I damn well called Marquis. and Titus too. and don't you forget it
In post 340, Zachrulez wrote:In post 328, Metal Sonic wrote:In post 312, Zachrulez wrote:Bussing also disadvantages the scum in a nightless game Metal, particularly because it helps town get scum lynches when they'd otherwise need unanimous town support for.
That's mafia theory. What method the scum employs to achieve their win condition is irrelevant from this discussion.
Issue here is how
1) current replacement system is skewed greatly towards townsided, because town will benefit more for choosing an appropriate replacement while scum usually don't because "too unethical" or "lurking is a scum tactic" or whatever reason
2) Reck mentioned how players with conflicts were able to hop into a game while others lacked the privilege, effectively trapping the other into a simply toxic game state (do I have your plea correct?)
3) town really should win the normal. Really
Nightless isn't the same as a regular game where you can just nightkill the town looking players. You actually have to deal with them for the whole game. The scum's real power in a nightless game is literally their voting power the closer you get to the end. All bussing does is force you to get additional lynches, and you can see how nigh impossible that was.
My point is that planning to bus your team in nightless commits you to lynching almost every town player. It should be obvious to see how crazy that notion is.
In post 349, T-Bone wrote:Team Mafia is townsided overall, perhaps we should be picking more slightly scumsided set-ups to compensate. If town wins the last game scum will just have a single win out of 6 games, and I don't think that's an appropriate win-rate.
In post 353, T-Bone wrote:Just eyeballing it feels like that to me. The large theme didn't get close to LyLo, the mini theme didn't get to LyLo, I didn't read the other two town wins, but just looking at them feels like town had a much easier ride. In these games it's not 9 town vs. 3 scum or whatever, it's 36 town vs. 3 scum. I think scum need a little leg up in the future.
In post 333, Metal Sonic wrote:In post 329, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I think it's a teams responsibility to cater for their players.
You should be committed to the game when you sign up; if you don't think you can commit the time then don't sign up. Simple as that.
Slots should get 3 prods and then they're mod killed. This would increase activity/engagement and encourage good team selection.
This was Vezok's suggestion. The BAM rule set that he talks about in my team pt.
Do take this into consideration.
also, for a change of pace
can the scum choose whether or not to release their scum pts? Or are all scum pts mandatory to be released in team mafia?
In post 356, zoraster wrote:I mean, the two times it's been run before now it's been 5 town wins to 4 scum wins, so not exactly unbalanced.
The large theme was marred by an extraordinarily apathetic scum team. Mod Error didn't get to lylo, but it did last 5 days, which is a pretty good result. Twin Trap didn't last long, but it wouldn't have whoever won (incidentally, Twin Trap had a 60% win rate for scum before now). Vanilla Nightless lasted 9 days, so it's hard not to say that was close (though worth pointing out that with 4 scum and no night kills it'll automatically last longer).
As for scum PTs, I think they'll probably be released. Team PTs will be kept private unless I'm given permission to make them public by their team.
In post 400, Zar wrote:In post 330, zoraster wrote:For what it's worth, Empire (then Zar) spent 3 tokens on Vanilla Nightless to be town and rolled scum. Which he was convinced was a mod error, but certainly wasn't. One issue was he got unlucky. The other issue is that all but 4 teams spent tokens on being town in that game. It had the most tokens per player spent of any of the games. I guess lots agreed that it's a town sided setup.
I KNOW,
I don't understand why it was his first pick though (if the odds of drawing scum in it are significantly higher anyway)...
I also had no intention of playing scum in Team Mafia >_> and being stuck with the hardest scum win with 80+ players hovering around it was pretty mind-consuming.
Mina and Regfan and Singer I'm sorry I didn't deliver a win
In post 408, Zar wrote:My mini wine freezer suffered greatly too
In post 409, T-Bone wrote:Let's not take anything away, that White Flag scum win was a good win by that team.
In post 413, Zar wrote:Oh no, ultimately town deserved the nightless win. I'm just mopy.
In post 407, Patrick wrote:I enjoyed playing Twin Trap, aside from the deadline days on days 2 and 3. Huge props to Mina and Quilford for eventually coming through as obviously town, which is what helped catch ETL as much as anything. Metal Sonic, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you'd have lynched ETL over me in endgame, but as some serious feedback, if you want to be more convincing, you should try to cut your posting level to a fraction of what it is now. More text and larger font =/= more convincing, and had you actually been right about Quilford we would have lost the game. The more spam you posted about him, the more it made him look like town, and it made me less likely to listen to any valid points you did make.
Was pretty unhappy about how White flag ended... knowing CES was town obviously helped in figuring out the game, but I really did not think ika/Ank would vote CES over Regfan. Since they both read each other as town, they were looking for the scumgroup in (BBT, CES, Regfan), which I thought should have made Regfan the obvious lynch because of how unlikely it was to be BBT/CES. The scumteam in this game snowed me days 1 and 2, but BBT gradually started to look less and less genuine, and Regfan fading into the background directly after a scum-lynch seemed the opposite of what town would be doing.
In post 419, hitogoroshi wrote:Obviously I'm biased but I don't think SoV was townsided. The neat thing about the setup is that if scum kill Alquin, they get three kills even with only two scums alive.
So it's a setup where you can lose a scumteam member and it's not all that devastating. It only turned out so bad here because of all of the lurking and hard defending.
In post 381, Bulbazak wrote:Just going to put in my two cents here. I think the replacement system worked perfectly. Zor's right in that management can't keep track of all the personal conflicts. Replacements, just like anything else in this game, came down to strategic choices. I had Kagami Hard Carry marked as a replacement pool in case of emergency, and getting Mollie to replace Who was the best decision our team made. Likewise, Mollie campaigned for my recruiting Wisdom when Eddie couldn't keep playing. I understand MS's frustration, but Mollie's replacing into his game was a switch, a game mechanic and therefore a very strategic choice. I thought long and hard about that move and talked to both players involved before making it. Did I know about Mollie's history with ABR? No, but that wasn't the point of the switch. The point was to get Eddie out of a situation he couldn't handle and get someone in there who could, especially when it came to dealing with Nacho. I wanted someone who could have more pull in that game, and Eddie and I both agreed that he wasn't cutting it. Scum would have won via manipulation and gotten Eddie lynched, potentially for the win. I shut that down via a game mechanic. If this competition is about who is the best and the strategy involved in playing a game on this level, then the teams need to have some control over replacements when their original members walk out on them (informed or otherwise). If you're complaining because someone's strategy inadvertently stepped on your toes because you have issues, then suck it up. This is Team Mafia. If you can't take your lumps, then you shouldn't be playing.
Btw, I'll be okay with our team PT being made public.
In post 452, Zar wrote:In post 451, vezokpiraka wrote:I knew for a fact empire wouldn't have gone from scum to scum
We did think about swapping Empire and Regfan for a little though... so that's not necessarily true.
In post 531, Regfan wrote:In post 529, Cheery Dog wrote:there should be a 5th person who doesn't start with a role. This way everyone will know who is actually likely to come in.
I don't mind this idea at all - a team of 5 with 4 people actually in games, the last person moreso there to help team mates with their games and be there if a replacement is needed. I'm sure there's been plenty of people that'd be willing to take a position like that too.
In post 605, xRECKONERx wrote:YOUR 2015 TEAM MAFIA CHAMPIONS...
WGEURTS, ANENIEN, T-BONE, AND WGEURTS!
