Newbie 35... game over!

[Talitha]

Interesting idea Zero.. That's quite a random way to chose a lynch candidate. (Although it can be argued that Day 1 lynches are essentially random anyway.) It would also ensure that the mafia can't direct the lynch today.

On the down side, I think mafia are more likely to post sooner rather than later (higher interest level), so it's less likely to net us a scum. And I think we can probably do better than a purely random lynch, by playing the usual "who is suspicious" game for a while.

random vote: Rick

[Talitha]

Just checking in.. I'll stick with my vote on Rick for now.. mainly because he threw around quite a bit of (what I considered to be unwarranted) suspicion in his post.

If Zero really is scum then he's either taking the chance that his suggestion will get his scum buddy lynched, or he's directly implicately Jaguar. Neither of those things seems like diabolically clever scum behaviour to me. Also I think a scum would be more careful not to draw attention to themselves like that. I'm not convinced that his suggestion was scummy at all - conversation and discussion is always good for the town.

[Talitha]

In any case I am still waiting for Talitha's answer to my question. I see she has posted elsewhere.

Sorry sorry. I blame the AIM scum chat room. Far too distracting and I have been neglecting all my games.

Rick the main part of your first post that raised my ire was when you suggested that Zero's proposition was a scummy one. And then went on to suggest that Zero and I could be scum together. It just seemed like a huge leap from what I thought was quite an innocent-sounding suggestion from Zero. In my experience, newbie scum don't start off like that.. they kinda wait around for others to lead the way and look for an easy lynch that doesn't involve getting their hands dirty. In contrast I am always suspicious of the first person to throw suspicion at a newbie for making a mistake. (In this case you).

My comment about Zero's suggestion "ensuring that the mafia don't direct the lynch" was more because I didn't want to shoot down his idea without recognising that it had some merit, and was supposed to be a general comment to do with random methods of choosing lynch candidates on day 1. So it seemed like you were taking a cheap shot at me.

I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily?!

[Talitha]

Interesting..
So burninglife, I'm not ready to lynch you just yet or anything, don't worry. But you're on 3 votes now. Might be time for a claim.

[Talitha]

It could mean a number of things... It could simply be that he's scum but no-one is sure enough of it to finish him off (apart from his scum buddy who does not want to finish him off - or is already on the wagon?).
If he is a townie it could mean that both scum were on the wagon, or that one scum was one the wagon and the other one did not want to appear suspicious by finishing him off.
In conclusion, I don't think it tells us a heckuva lot at all.

I think there's a good chance he is scum, but seeing as we haven't been slapped with a deadline or anything there's no hurry to do anything just yet. We can still learn more today.

burninglife: It would be helpful if you could give us some info to go on.. eg. Who you find suspicious, etc.

[Talitha]

please delete double post, dear mod!

[Talitha]

Wow - lots to go on. This is a very interesting Day 1! (Thanks all).

unvote: Rick

Now for the suspects:

I'm suspicious of Jaguar.. not just for Rick's "lie". Although I think he has a point. Even though Jaguar says she hasn't voted for a scum buddy yet, I'm sure she would use that tactic if she thought it was a good move. Looking back, she did jump on burninglife for the "Hi I'm posting so no-one thinks I'm lurking" post. We had someone do that in Mini 93 (High School mafia) and that person turned out innocent. (Jag was innocent in that game and gave that person "the benefit of the doubt"). Then she didn't unvote burninglife when he was at 3/4 votes although she says she's curious about Zero's 3rd vote. That didn't quite sit right.
So yeah - Jag is a good suspect I reckon.

Then there's burninglife, who says he doesn't give a damn about getting lynched and acting like he's resigned to the fact. He seems kinda angry and I tend to think he wouldn't be angry if he was scum.. but I dunno.. it could be an act.

Last on my list is Mr_G... he seems to be playing the classic lurker game.. popping up when something presses his buttons. One thing he said stood out, that he thinks it's "not very likely that burninglife is scum".. Just made me wonder why he thinks this? Mr_G?

[Talitha]

vote: Jaguar

- She's my best guess for scum.

[Talitha]

Different mods seem to have different opinions on whether posting in twilight is allowed or not... We haven't been told otherwise, so I guess it's OK to post.

Not a lot of point in me replying to some of the things I was about to reply to, however.

[Talitha]

Ugh.. doctor down.

For those who haven't played before, this is what is referred to as a lynch-wrong-and-lose situation for the town. Therefore we need to be very cautious today with our votes, and I'd go as far as saying that no-one should vote until we have had a whole heap of discussion. All it would take is a townie voting for another townie and the scum can win the game with their two votes.

We have to discuss whether we think the cop should claim... they definitely should if they found a scum.. if they found an innocent that would clear two people and make our odds better for lynching.

I'm gonna go through the thread again now that I know Jag & Zero are innocent, and give you my thoughts (probably tomorrow).

[Talitha]

Well I've read through again and I have to say that my main suspicions are the same as yesterday (apart from Jaguar of course )

Mr G: Has been acting like he hasn't really been paying attention... popping up when called upon, and the quick lynching vote on Jag. I don't consider the quick lynch vote particularly scummy because I have seen townies do it often enough in these newbie games. It's more the vibes that I'm getting from him I guess.

burninglife is my 2nd highest suspect.. mainly beacuse I haven't heard enough from him to get a feeling of townie-ness or otherwise.

I know Rick's a good player so can't discount him either... but I feel that he wouldn't have gone after Jaguar like he did if he were scum.

Prince K is giving me townie feelings right now.

[Talitha]

makes me wonder why Talitha didn’t mention anything about Zero saying this in

this

game

I hardly "jumped all over" anyone. You have to consider the contexts of each game. In the other game it was the best thing that stood out to me at the time and I wanted to make a note of it before it disappeared into an oblivion of posts and pages. In this game I felt there was a lot better things to go on. And you're right, I didn't want to lead a bandwagon against zero, when I felt there were better candidates.

How can you know it for sure? I mean, doesn't scums suppose to be as much unexpected as they can?

I certainly don't know for sure that Rick is innocent. I was just saying that his behaviour yesterday has put him below some others on my list of suspects. You're right, it could be clever play.

[Talitha]

Yay - Mr G is back! Yay - Norinel is here! Game on!

[Talitha]

I don't necessarily think it was poor town strategy to ask burninglife for a claim and then not lynch him... burninglife was on 3 votes and could very easily have been lynched. That in itself is useful information. If we had lynched burninglife at that point we would've lost out on a whole heap of conversation and information. Rules like the one Norinel is suggesting can make for a very quick DAy 1.. which is not good for the town at all.

And I don't want to play a purely mechanical game of mafia where you have to follow certain rules. (Like following through on a lynch, because someone claimed townie). I'd rather follow my instincts at the time. I don't think newbie games should be about learning the optimal strategy that is associated with a certain kind of setup. If I did I would suggested the whole cop-claim-day-1 strategy.

However, I'm tending to believe Norinel when he implies we would've been better off lynching burninglife yesterday.

FOS: Norinel

[Talitha]

I'd like to hear Mr Gnome's analysis of this game and the players, if he would be so kind as to share his thoughts!

[Talitha]

Well, if we don't lynch a scum today we lose. And even if we lynch one today, then we have to lynch one again tomorrow. So any analysis* at all is better than none. And more is better than less. I've already indicated that I'm leaning towards the scums being Norinel & Mr Gnome... but I'm nowhere near sure enough to vote.

*analysis in the "comment on the game & players" sense of the word.

[Talitha]

Rick: I agree with Norinel. Many scum will play extra-cautiously or try to appear like they are the most pro-town player to ever play a game of mafia. Other scum throw caution to the wind and try and stir up the game. Some pay attention, some don't. There really is no magic formula to say "Scum behave

this

way".

Ufortunately I haven't been in enough games with Mr G to be able to read his style. And I haven't seen him in action as scum yet {as far as I'm aware). I know that he is playing this game differently than another that I'm in with him.

I don't really buy his explanation that he has no clue... He's not a newbie, and if he were town I would think he would have

some

suspicions. I'm left with the conclusion that he's either not very interested in this game, or he's mafia.

Norinel: The only person I am 90% sure isn't the cop is you. Asking the cop to come out could be the cop's way of trying to foil a possible mafia counter-claim, or they may be trying to appear not to be the cop in the hopes that they can live through another night.

[Talitha]

Well eventually someone is going to have to be the first to place a vote. It probably won't be Mr G though, because he doesn't have any suspects!! I'm nearly ready to put a vote on him though...

[Talitha]

Well - we do need to move the game along somehow. Voting with FOSes sounds good. (I think Rick suggested this earlier). If we get 3 FOSes on someone we can then decide if we will follow through and lynch.

I'll

FOS: Mr Gnome

(I see that I FOSed Norinel earlier... I'm not going to UNFOS him because I haven't changed my mind about that, but for the FOS instead of voting, I'm on Mr Gnome right now).

[Talitha]

Unofficial FOS count:
Norinel (2) - Rick, Prince Kael
Mr G (1) - Talitha
Prince Kael (1) - Norinel

Not FOSing - Mr G

[Talitha]

Well, I'm not going to jump up and down and try and stop you. I'm still on Mr G, but Norinel seems most likely to me as his partner.

[Talitha]

Is that a concession of guilt? Because we can get on with it, if you like.

[Talitha]

I'm horribly wrong or both townies are voting for me...

You're not horribly wrong

[Talitha]

(Told ya Mr G was scum)

[Talitha]

The odds were stacked against the town after a townie was lynched and we managed to kill the doc. I don't think anyone played badly - I fully expected to win this game when I saw it was me with Mr G as we're both relatively experienced players.

And it sucks when you're the cop and you investigate the guy who died... been there, done that ... it's just bad luck.

[Talitha]

Oh - forgot to thank the mod.. how rude of me. Thanks Dourgrim