NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[Wake1]

Which one am I responding to, exactly?
Sorry if I missed it, I just got back from work and I'm tired lol.

Any of it; hopefully all.

I want players to engage me in this game, or at least tell me exactly where they disagree and why.

[Shinobi]

Well.
I'm looking at your posts and I don't see much I should be responding to or talking about.
I actually disliked your reads list because it seemed somewhat aimed towards making you look clueless, the only player you came to some sort of conclusion about was me and even that was somewhat wishy-washy.

Do you really think that sort of stuff is productive?

[ika]

ok so we have singleball with possible sk

hi shniob how are you?

[Nosferatu]

What's a singleball? I can't find it on the wiki.

[Shinobi]

Hi ika.

Honestly wake, I know I've had a bit of trouble reading you in the past and I generally don't talk about stuff unless I have a really solid opinion on it, so I was kind of avoiding you for a little bit because I know you tend to fixate on things that I generally ignore for the majority of the game.

If you want to talk about something, talk to me about Quaroath maybe?

[Shinobi]

I've always thought that sheeping was usually scum-indicative

Uhhhh since when, actually?

[ika]

Hi ika.

Honestly wake, I know I've had a bit of trouble reading you in the past and I generally don't talk about stuff unless I have a really solid opinion on it, so I was kind of avoiding you for a little bit because I know you tend to fixate on things that I generally ignore for the majority of the game.

If you want to talk about something, talk to me about Quaroath maybe?

what your read on quarth? i wanna talk

[ika]

ok i see why shinobi want to talk about quarth, what you think of him right now?

[Shinobi]

Hi ika.

Honestly wake, I know I've had a bit of trouble reading you in the past and I generally don't talk about stuff unless I have a really solid opinion on it, so I was kind of avoiding you for a little bit because I know you tend to fixate on things that I generally ignore for the majority of the game.

If you want to talk about something, talk to me about Quaroath maybe?

what your read on quarth? i wanna talk

I think he's kinda scummy.
I thought his scumread on Gray was kinda bosh. I commented on it here

What are you thinking?

[ika]

Hi ika.

Honestly wake, I know I've had a bit of trouble reading you in the past and I generally don't talk about stuff unless I have a really solid opinion on it, so I was kind of avoiding you for a little bit because I know you tend to fixate on things that I generally ignore for the majority of the game.

If you want to talk about something, talk to me about Quaroath maybe?

what your read on quarth? i wanna talk

I think he's kinda scummy.
I thought his scumread on Gray was kinda bosh. I commented on it here

What are you thinking?

the thing is i agree on the base/surface level. but his play seems very reckless as a scum. his big OMG YOU CLAIM VT post is what made me put him in a null-scum pile at least

[Wake1]

Well.

I'm looking at your posts and I don't see much I should be responding to or talking about.

I actually disliked your reads list because it seemed somewhat aimed towards making you look clueless, the only player you came to some sort of conclusion about was me and even that was somewhat wishy-washy.

Do you really think that sort of stuff is productive?

If you're Scum, you'd probably say that. If you're actually Town, then I'd want to talk with you more about this thru and after this game, because that's just weird.

I didn't post a reads list, and I don't have time to make one. This game being so early, I think it's prudent to be cautious, instead of being overly-certain. I don't think I was being wishy-washy, either.

Here, I want to engage this game: someone has to start somewhere.

I'll bring these points to you, then, so I can start extracting feedback from you.

1)

What do you feel about Lapsa saying SW was confScum? I asked him 'according to what.' What do you think?

2)

Do you think, since Boons and ika can hammer L-1, that they'd both hammer someone at L-2? I know that question is less pertinent, but I'd like to know what people think on this regardless.

3)

What do you think of Wolfie's play so far, and what do you think she's capable of?

4)

Since you are self-aware of your own play, are you willing to point out any of your alignment-indicative behaviors?

5)

Do you think we should speedlynch, or take our time? Not asking that we drag it to the last day, but at least use our time somewhat wisely.

6)

Who do you want to hear more from? Who needs more pressure?

7)

On my 441, I don't think players should be implying players are Town based on the assumption the game is singleball. I don't make assumptions: I keep all possibilities in the back of my mind, and play accordingly.

8)

What do you think of 442 where I spoke with nosferatu about sheeping?

Anyone else here is encouraged to engage me. Rather we be active than not. Since ika and nosferatu and you are on, please share your thoughts.

[Wake1]

Hi ika.

Honestly wake, I know I've had a bit of trouble reading you in the past and I generally don't talk about stuff unless I have a really solid opinion on it, so I was kind of avoiding you for a little bit because I know you tend to fixate on things that I generally ignore for the majority of the game.

If you want to talk about something, talk to me about Quaroath maybe?

Eh.

I feel like you're finding a reason to not engage me, and then redirecting the conversation towards Quaroath, and ika's with you on that.

Not saying that to be mean, and I'm saying that with respect. I'm being honest with how I really feel reading your response in 454 just now, and saying so so the other 18 players know it.

I haven't really read Quaroath's posts yet, but chances are I'll talk with and discuss him soon, but for now I feel you should talk with me more about the issues I'm bringing up to you now. I'd like you to talk with me about my game-related points while we're both here, instead of you sort of dismissing it and saying we should talk Quaroath. We can talk about him later. Let's talk about this now. Please?

[Wake1]

Briefly, I felt there's a Scum-connection between Shinobi and ika, but it's just a feeling. I'm usually wrong during Day 1 when it comes to feeling out who's what. If either of you guys feel like voting me for voicing that slight feeling, you're free to, but it'd make me wonder a bit more, but not in a way that'd make me feel you're Town.

[Shinobi]

Alrighty, works for me, let's do it:

1) Lapsa is a unique player in the sense that he doesn't post walls and thoughts like a regular scumhunter. A lot of the time, he'll attach videos and pictures to posts and he'll say stuff that can be somewhat off-the-wall from what you're used to. I just got finished playing two scumgames against him and I've seen him townplay first hand, so nothing out of the ordinary there yet. (Though I don't begrudge him for going after SW the way he has, considering it's a read based on prior experience and can apply to this game.)

2) /shrug, I honestly don't know. My experience with IML and quickhammers is actually somewhat limited compared to my experience with plurality lynch. I've never even played with ika before.

3) I agree that SW is a dangerous player and her style of writing has fooled me in the past, specifically in that large NY game we played together. I'm reserving judgement for now.

4) Uhhhhh...Good luck with that. I'm notoriously difficult to read even when I play as townily as possible. I can be amazingly anti-town as town sometimes but that's really the only thing I can think of.

5) I'm all for using our time wisely and I'd rather not lynch immediately.

6) Quoaroth or w/e his name is.

7) I understood this after the fact.

8) I don't necessarily agree. How do you intend to make lynches happen without sheeping? Like...It could be, but I don't think accusing someone of sheeping is a necessarily valid tell on its own.

Pedit: Well, I want to talk about Qua. Do you have an opinion on him?

[ika]

shinobi imm board.

what you think of his last post that i commented on?

[Shinobi]

shinobi imm board.

what you think of his last post that i commented on?

What did you mean by reckless for scum, exactly?

[Wake1]

Alrighty, works for me, let's do it:

1) Lapsa is a unique player in the sense that he doesn't post walls and thoughts like a regular scumhunter. A lot of the time, he'll attach videos and pictures to posts and he'll say stuff that can be somewhat off-the-wall from what you're used to. I just got finished playing two scumgames against him and I've seen him townplay first hand, so nothing out of the ordinary there yet. (Though I don't begrudge him for going after SW the way he has, considering it's a read based on prior experience and can apply to this game.)

2) /shrug, I honestly don't know. My experience with IML and quickhammers is actually somewhat limited compared to my experience with plurality lynch. I've never even played with ika before.

3) I agree that SW is a dangerous player and her style of writing has fooled me in the past, specifically in that large NY game we played together. I'm reserving judgement for now.

4) Uhhhhh...Good luck with that. I'm notoriously difficult to read even when I play as townily as possible. I can be amazingly anti-town as town sometimes but that's really the only thing I can think of.

5) I'm all for using our time wisely and I'd rather not lynch immediately.

6) Quoaroth or w/e his name is.

7) I understood this after the fact.

8) I don't necessarily agree. How do you intend to make lynches happen without sheeping? Like...It could be, but I don't think accusing someone of sheeping is a necessarily valid tell on its own.

Pedit: Well, I want to talk about Qua. Do you have an opinion on him?

...

1)

I know a little of Lapsa, and am aware of some bits of odd play. Not enough known to come to a solidified opinion of him.

2)

Boons, ika, could you answer this, please?

3)

I'll reserve judgment as well. Too early for me to tell.

4)

So there's nothing you can tell me of your posts I should look for to extrapolate and use in judging your alignment?

5)

That is good.

6)

Just him on both counts currently?

7)

What does that mean? Does that mean you agree with me on my points regarding TSO's implication that Redff is Town based on him currently assuming we're only dealing with singleball?

8)

Lynches can happen with sheeping, but it's better for lynches to happen with grounded reasons behind them. Not that sure sheeping is alignment-indicative, but it's sort of intellectually lazy, in that you're not really providing much of your own content on

why

you're voting the way you are, which deprives Town of useful information down the road.

I have not read Qua's posts. Since you have responded to my points, I'll skim over his ISO at least, and may provide thoughts on him in a little while.

[Shinobi]

4) Not really. If anything I'm far more likely to stick my neck out for townreads as town but my play is relatively similar regardless of my alignment.

6) Anna might be a good pick as well, but that's mostly grounded in her insistence on using buzzwords to vote people.

7) I understood your reasoning behind it. I don't agree with making people town because they're pushing other people, but I don't even do that in singleball. I don't really think much about that kind of stuff until I have flips in front of me because I find that it makes things way too complicated way too fast. That, and I'm

generally

not one for associative reads anyway.

[ika]

shinobi imm board.

what you think of his last post that i commented on?

What did you mean by reckless for scum, exactly?

him throwing around his vote like its nothing

i mean i would like to see more before i truly decide but for right now

[Wake1]

Ika, would you be willing to respond to my 460, like Shinobi did?

Please?

I want to know where you two differ on the current gamestate.

[ika]

ive already gave enough imput on enough of the things.

also most of those question about gamestate are either irrlivent or dont do anyhting productive

[Wake1]

I can't make you communicate with me on the game.

I don't think they're irrelevant, and your response would help me understand a little better what you think and maybe a little better where you stand.

Engaging is productive. Shinobi engaging with me was productive, in that I feel I can trust him just a touch more. Your refusal to really talk with me about the game isn't automatically going to make me distrust you, but it's not going to help me trust you, either. We should be active and talking and sharing our thoughts and challenging each other. By not doing that with me, even if it's to utterly uproot my points, deprives Town of information to utilize. If there were only two options, one being you completely destroying my points openly by posting, or two saying it's irrelevant and saying it's not productive, I'd rather you choose the former.

[ika]

i would say most if not all have already been asnwered by my iso.

[Quaroath]

I don't know what Fox is like as scum, since he posted like three times in Masquerade, but I think I have a vague townread on him for the sheer badness of his play so far. He doesn't really seem interested in looking good, which is ...kinda town? But really not something anyone else should try emulating.

This isn't my experience with grey as town. He's either trying to cover terrible town play with "changing my meta" or he's ya know.. not town.

Saying I've been town and just want to mix it up his meta is WIMOF hell, and he knows it. Wait - we crush silver over meta, but this guy does something universally seen as anti town, isn't at all as active as I know he is on town, but my meta read is whack.


...

okay.

Given recent interactions with SW, I'm not really buying the pissed off = scum argument. I've recently been on the receiving end of it from SW town. Hey more meta comments.

What's a singleball? I can't find it on the wiki.

One anti town team game

Also, discussion on me is welcome, and I'll answer questions ya'll have, but I work weekends and will only be posting once a day Friday-Sunday unless I get a hair under my ass on lunch at work.

[Wake1]

i would say most if not all have already been asnwered by my iso.

That feels like a generic excuse, in that that excuses you from answering me, and instead forces me to search through over 400 posts just to find if indeed your ISO answers those questions. It's... well, it's a bit lazy. And I feel it's lazy because the next time you argue with me, or ask me anything, when we are 1,000 posts in, all I have to say is 'search my ISO.' That would spare me having to actually engage you and answer or refute you, and if I were to be Scum, well, that'd be pretty convenient. I don't think you'd want to look through hundreds of posts, and if that'd be the only way to find the answers you're looking for, that'd be pretty inconvenient, and a waste of your time, especially when, if I've supposedly already covered it in my ISO, I can simply and briefly reiterate in a matter of mere minutes.

I know I'm Town. I don't know if you're Town. If you are Town, working with me would be a good thing. While you would not know what I know about my alignment, you would show that you're a team player, and willing to engage and work together with the other players here.