Mini 482: Shrek Mafia - Game Over

[Adam The Amazing]

Ditto. Waiting for Apo.

[inHimshallibe]

That's all they are... reads. I'm pretty vibey on Day 1. The Nox vote was honestly just a shot in the dark, but with you some of your posts struck a nerve. Day 1 won't get much more from me on Day 1 besides who I support or who I suspect - I'll get to the other players when I feel it needs attention.

Post your vibes. Anything you post is just more info for the town to go over and find scum with.

I'm assuming you know what vibes are, and so would know why I think it's silly you ask that I post them..? I know the town needs information. Hmm, now I have meat for my bones: tone of this post seems fakehelpful.

[Grek]

I'm assuming you know what vibes are, and so would know why I think it's silly you ask that I post them..? I know the town needs information. Hmm, now I have meat for my bones: tone of this post seems fakehelpful.

This helps the town for the same reason random voting helps the town. It forces the scum to post some information that could be used to incriminate them later while promoting discussion. I suspect you could be trying to avoid posting anything in an attempt protect your scumbuddies. Accusing me of being "fakehelpful" is just a ploy to distract the town and distract people from thinking about why you don't want to answer questions.

[inHimshallibe]

I'm assuming you know what vibes are, and so would know why I think it's silly you ask that I post them..? I know the town needs information. Hmm, now I have meat for my bones: tone of this post seems fakehelpful.

This helps the town for the same reason random voting helps the town. It forces the scum to post some information that could be used to incriminate them later while promoting discussion. I suspect you could be trying to avoid posting anything in an attempt protect your scumbuddies. Accusing me of being "fakehelpful" is just a ploy to distract the town and distract people from thinking about why you don't want to answer questions.

There are questions I haven't answered?

[Grek]

Yes. Who do you think is scummy, who do you think is town and why do you think that?

[inHimshallibe]

I'm going to tactfully ignore the question, pretend you really said, "I took the time to read your posts and wish you a good night," and go to sleep.

[Mirth]

Sorry that I haven't posted in a while. Totally crashed on Monday/yesterday (finally got enough sleep, yay!)

Grek, his answer seemed to be that "it's too early to think anything" unless I'm reading something wrong...and I know I shall be getting more flak for this, but I really don't like how hard Grek is pushing. I agree with Nox about it seeming like Grek is trying to get rid of attention.

As for my read on InHim. I do not know what to think, but he honestly does strike me as less scummy than a few other people. I don't like the wagoning, but two things don't sit well in my mind. Somebody mentioned earlier that the mod likes jester roles, and while speculating about it seems stupid, I keep remembering that phrase. InHim's player age just doesn't want to reconcile with the kind of stupid wagonning for me for some reason. That's all I have to add. (Now I need to go catch up on all I missed in Open. Argh.)

[Jex]

Grek, his answer seemed to be that "it's too early to think anything" unless I'm reading something wrong...and I know I shall be getting more flak for this, but I really don't like how hard Grek is pushing. I agree with Nox about it seeming like Grek is trying to get rid of attention.

I agree with you about Grek's pushing. I don't like that he states it is just his playstyle, yet he didn't really choose to push hard against someone until after people began looking at him as a possible suspect. Grek is still high on my list of scum, but I don't know who I want to vote for at this point. For now

unvote

until I have some time to read through posts again and get a better idea of things.

[Grek]

Grek, his answer seemed to be that "it's too early to think anything" unless I'm reading something wrong...and I know I shall be getting more flak for this, but I really don't like how hard Grek is pushing. I agree with Nox about it seeming like Grek is trying to get rid of attention.

He said:

Day 1 won't get much more from me on Day 1 besides who I support or who I suspect - I'll get to the other players when I feel it needs attention

I think it needs attention now. Knowing who thinks what of who, and why those thoughts changed as the days pass helps the town. It gives us something to work on once we have more solid info.

As for my read on InHim. I do not know what to think, but he honestly does strike me as less scummy than a few other people. I don't like the wagoning, but two things don't sit well in my mind. Somebody mentioned earlier that the mod likes jester roles, and while speculating about it seems stupid, I keep remembering that phrase. InHim's player age just doesn't want to reconcile with the kind of stupid wagonning for me for some reason. That's all I have to add. (Now I need to go catch up on all I missed in Open. Argh.)

We could wait untill Apo gets back, decide if ben was a jester, scum or nuts and go from there. What are the chances we would have two jesters?

I agree with you about Grek's pushing. I don't like that he states it is just his playstyle, yet he didn't really choose to push hard against someone until after people began looking at him as a possible suspect. Grek is still high on my list of scum, but I don't know who I want to vote for at this point. For now unvote until I have some time to read through posts again and get a better idea of things.

Note that people suspected me on the

first page

. It makes sense that I only started after that, as there wasn't enough info for me to start pushing on for someone on

page one

.

[Nox]

Grek, his answer seemed to be that "it's too early to think anything" unless I'm reading something wrong...and I know I shall be getting more flak for this, but I really don't like how hard Grek is pushing. I agree with Nox about it seeming like Grek is trying to get rid of attention.

He said:

Day 1 won't get much more from me on Day 1 besides who I support or who I suspect - I'll get to the other players when I feel it needs attention

I think it needs attention now. Knowing who thinks what of who, and why those thoughts changed as the days pass helps the town. It gives us something to work on once we have more solid info.

As for my read on InHim. I do not know what to think, but he honestly does strike me as less scummy than a few other people. I don't like the wagoning, but two things don't sit well in my mind. Somebody mentioned earlier that the mod likes jester roles, and while speculating about it seems stupid, I keep remembering that phrase. InHim's player age just doesn't want to reconcile with the kind of stupid wagonning for me for some reason. That's all I have to add. (Now I need to go catch up on all I missed in Open. Argh.)

We could wait untill Apo gets back, decide if ben was a jester, scum or nuts and go from there. What are the chances we would have two jesters?

I agree with you about Grek's pushing. I don't like that he states it is just his playstyle, yet he didn't really choose to push hard against someone until after people began looking at him as a possible suspect. Grek is still high on my list of scum, but I don't know who I want to vote for at this point. For now unvote until I have some time to read through posts again and get a better idea of things.

Note that people suspected me on the

first page

. It makes sense that I only started after that, as there wasn't enough info for me to start pushing on for someone on

page one

.

"

It gives us something to work on once we have more solid info.

"
You can people like a an old tube of toothpaste if you want; On Day One, "Solid Info" is scarce. I agree that people's thoughts and opinions concerning others are important to the town; however, they are equally important to Scum. I won't hold it against them if people are not up front all the time about who they trust. On the other hand, I know people share their thoughts when they feel it necessary, and that suffices me.

"

We could wait untill Apo gets back, decide if ben was a jester, scum or nuts and go from there. What are the chances we would have two jesters?

"
I agree with the fact that we should wait until Apo posts before lynching

anyone

. Personally, I don't like the recurring Jester idea. Grek has mentionned it what, three or four times now? It's starting to irk me.

[Grek]

I agree that people's thoughts and opinions concerning others are important to the town; however, they are equally important to Scum.

The scum can't exactly go and kill everyone that thinks they are scum, people would notice.

Grek has mentionned it what, three or four times now? It's starting to irk me.

I brought it up twice in response to ben's ridiculously scummy posts and twice in response to posts talking about jesters.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I'm going to send out a mass prod just for a general reminder. Please don't be offended if you were active, as it is a

general

prod

[Nox]

I agree that people's thoughts and opinions concerning others are important to the town; however, they are equally important to Scum.

The scum can't exactly go and kill everyone that thinks they are scum, people would notice.

Grek has mentionned it what, three or four times now? It's starting to irk me.

I brought it up twice in response to ben's ridiculously scummy posts and twice in response to posts talking about jesters.

The scum can't exactly go and kill everyone that thinks they are scum, people would notice.

Why do people assume scum are stupid? Of course people would notice. Thing is though, Scum don't need to kill off people who are onto them to win; they need to kill off the Town, period. They tend to deal with the people who are suspicious of them in an upfront manner in order to not look scummy and to cast suspicion on others.

They can make an educated guess, however, as to who it would be best to kill in order to diminish suspicion upon themselves. [/quote]

[inHimshallibe]

@ Nox - Solid information on Day 1 isn't so much "scarce" - as you put it - as it is applicable. I ought to start posting this in all my games so people could understand where my posts are coming from.

[Grek]

Why do people assume scum are stupid? Of course people would notice. Thing is though, Scum don't need to kill off people who are onto them to win; they need to kill off the Town, period. They tend to deal with the people who are suspicious of them in an upfront manner in order to not look scummy and to cast suspicion on others.

They can make an educated guess, however, as to who it would be best to kill in order to diminish suspicion upon themselves.

The scum are going to pick someone regardless of what is said during the day. It would be stupid of them to waste a kill. Knowing who the scum decided to kill after everyone has expressed an opinion will help the town. Not saything what you think will only deprive the town of info.

[Mirth]

I'm really sorry about now posting lately. I have family over and they're being a pain. I didn't expect this, as I can usually just hole myself somewhere with my laptop and have them ignore me, but I have had no free time the last few days. I shall be able to get on the computer late tomorrow evening long enough to respond to stuff. Again, I'm very sorry about this and very sorry I didn't forsee it.

[Adam The Amazing]

Where the hell is Apo? I've been waiting for something, anything, but I've been getting nothing. We didn't even get a confirmation "I'm here" post.

...And yes, this is my response to the prod. I've been reading the thread.

[Grek]

...Apo, you going to post?

[Pug89]

Sorry I haven't posted. I just started college and I've been busier then I thought I would be, but like everyone else I'm waiting for Apo to post.

[DeliciousGoldfish]

Apo has still yet to post. My vote stands.

[Mirth]

Sorry about my abscence. Family is finally gone, my apartment is empty, I am free to stay on the computer. Yay.

To the stuff I missed, I only have comments on the following:

Grek: I still think you're pushing too hard. At this point its kind of hard to think much of anyone really, as we have a few people not actively playing, and no one died night one. This means that we have a set-up with either 3 or 4 mafia members (and possibly a serial killer), and the remaining people are townies or some variant or other. Since a third or a quarter of the players here are bad evil horrible people who kick puppies and such, a read on day one with no bodies and no previous lynch is kind of hard to establish.

Also, as to whom scum will pick during the night, well, its most likely that scum will go power role hunting instead of trying to elliminate those who suspect them or kill those whose deaths will provide as little information for the town as possible. For a scum win, since there is more than one of them, it is perfectly okay if one or two of them bites the dust as long as they get rid of any power role that can influence the town. It's also perfectly okay to eliminate someone that suspects one of them, as long as the others can make themselves look innocent. So really the scum *WON'T* pick someone "regardless of what is said during the day." They'll try to use what is said during the day to maximize their chances of picking power roles at night, and leaving the more suspicious looking townies alive for the town to lynch during the day.

And that's all I have to say really, other than I really would like to hear from Ben's replacement.

[Adam The Amazing]

I agree with what some of Mirth said. The scum will generally try to keep alive the shady looking townies, because they're the ones most likely to get lynched. The ones who look squeaky clean won't divert suspicion, and unless someone does some strawmanning, it's hard to mount an argument of someone being "too townie."

With that said, I didn't like where that last post was going. It was getting into a good bit of WIFOM, saying who the mafia would pick and wouldn't pick. I understand you made it clear you don't buy into the theory of absolutes in predicting mafia (when you wrote *WON"T*), but it looked like this particular post was set up for Grek dying during the night and you claiming "that's not what I would have done!" That's not necessarily where that post was intended to go, but I got a couple vibes of laying groundwork for later in that post.

[Mirth]

Adam, perhaps you misunderstand what I meant by the *WON'T*. I mean that the mafia will of course use what happens during the day to influence their choice and to think otherwise would be silly. I should also mention that the most suspicious person during the day changes with who the mafia choose to kill at night, but I would think that goes without saying.

Now then, since you don't like where my post is going, I must say the feeling is mutual. If you're accusing me of setting up a Grek kill, then accuse me outright, please. I realize my post is all WIFOM but so is yours. If you're going to talk about Grek dying tonight, let's play out the whole WIFOM scenerio.

If Grek dies, most of you will probably suspect me as I'm the one who was giving him the most grief. But then you shouldn't suspect me because I'm not stupid enough to kill him and draw suspicion on myself. But then you should suspect me because I know that you think that I'm not stupid enough to kill him and draw suspicion on myself, so obviously I'm going to kill him because I think you think I wouldn't. But then you shouldn't suspect me because I know you know I know you think I'm not stupid enough to kill him and draw suspicion on myself, and the farmer had a dog that he loved, that ate a piece of meat, then he killed the dog, buried it, and wrote on his grave that the farmer had a dog that he loved that ate a piece of meat...

Now then, you know what else is missing from your post? The possibility of other killing roles besides Mafia. We could have a serial killer. We could have a vigilante. We don't know (and I'm not going to try to guess), but even if someone turns up dead, we wouldn't know who killed them, because on top of multiple killing roles, we might also have a roleblocker or a doctor, who may or may not prevent one or more kills, or no kills at all. So even if Grek turns up dead, and even if I killed him, it might be worse than you think or better than you think. Then again, you function under the assumption that Grek is town and has a chance of turning up dead tomorrow. How can you be so sure of this? Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Maybe he and I really are partners, like someone mentioned before. Maybe we're masons or cops or watchers or siblings or any one of any possible number of roles that could appear in a game like this. So really, the WIFOM scenerios are even more endless then I mention.

The real reason I posted post 195, though, is because I really just don't like Grek's reasoning. His logical basis seems unthought out. (I'm not going to get back into arguing with him about lynching, though). It rubs me a the wrong way. I just think he needs to consider all the choices a bit more before he makes a blanket statement. I also happen to mostly agree with Nox.

[Grek]

Grek: I still think you're pushing too hard.

Unless the amount of presure being applied is going to hurt the town, I am not pushing too hard.

Also, as to whom scum will pick during the night, well, its most likely that scum will go power role hunting instead of trying to elliminate those who suspect them or kill those whose deaths will provide as little information for the town as possible. For a scum win, since there is more than one of them, it is perfectly okay if one or two of them bites the dust as long as they get rid of any power role that can influence the town. It's also perfectly okay to eliminate someone that suspects one of them, as long as the others can make themselves look innocent. So really the scum *WON'T* pick someone "regardless of what is said during the day." They'll try to use what is said during the day to maximize their chances of picking power roles at night, and leaving the more suspicious looking townies alive for the town to lynch during the day.

What I meant was "Saying that you suspect a member of a scum group of being scum has little to no bearing on their decsion to kill you or not". It's not so much that I am not being logical or forgeting to think of something, but rather what I say has to be taken into context to make sense. When I used the phrase "regardless of what is said during the day." I mean "regardlesss of what suspicions are expressed during the day", as that part of the post was about if saying you suspec someone could attract untoward attention from the mafia.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I was gone this weekend because I was at PAX. It looks like a lot has gone down since then, so I'm gonna get caught up now. Don't replace me!