NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[Vedith]

Because Zakk is scum, Performer is highly possible scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

I got up to this post, addressing it separately because it's kinda separate to alignment stuff:

I'm also going to say I think it's really shitty of CDB to have replaced in and now be in prod range.

I wouldn't ordinarily have replaced in at the exact time that I did but I was cross-replacing with molla into my mini theme. I explicitly informed him when I brought it up that I was on my way out to a business trip and would not have much time to catch up for 48 hours or so, and let him make the call on whether or not that was acceptable for him. I was aware of how much time there was before deadline so I would not even have offered in the first place if there had only been a couple of days left at the time.

Now, obviously it's taken me longer to catch up than just the time that I was on the trip and I do apologise for that, but I just want to make clear that I was upfront about the fact that I wasn't going to be able to be active immediately.

[Titus]

Can we just swap over to Zakk?
UNVOTE: Performer
VOTE: Zakk

VOTE: zakk

This is fine if I can't get AJ.

[Luna Fox]

Yeah I'd prefer this Zakk person too

Unvote
Vote: Zakk

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, I ~read every page but I definitely skimmed more over the last 10-15 because it really wasn't a very enjoyable read and not an awful lot seemed to be happening to change my views that formed earlier on. But I'll probably be going back for another read from page 20 onwards sooner than I might otherwise reread games. I've got enough to be entirely happy with engaging with the lynch, though.

Splitting my reads into the broadest categories possible:

Would not lynch Today:

Performer, Titus, Vedith, talah, Luna Fox, IAI, Skybird, Banana, VeeGee

Would be OK with lynching Today:

zakk, TheWorst, AJ, FAQ2

Of the above, I'm particularly dead set against lynching Performer, Titus, Vedith, talah, Luna and Skybird as strong-ish or better townreads.

AJ is the member of the latter list on whom I'd be most hesitant; I wasn't particularly interested in his slot until this post, in which Luna appears to show up that AJ is not practicing what he preaches in a way that suggests trying to manipulate to get an advantageous lynch.

zakk is an acceptable policy lynch but nothing else - because he doesn't care about the game at all, he's shown no sign of alignment-indicative behaviour. Hard to get excited about lynching him but if he's going to continue to play like this then there's no point in him being alive. If that's where we end up, I'll live with it.

My preferred lynch would be TheWorst. Excessive wordiness in the early game is often a scumtell, I've found, and the last sentence here immediately caught my attention in that regard. 104 was dreadful, saying just extremely peripheral things. 257 is no better - the vote on VeeGee is lame from the start, but the part that I like the least is his criticism of catboi's focus on him. The appeal to consensus (look! these people agree with me!) isn't a town reaction, I don't think. Town explains why they felt the way that they felt, rather than finding reasons for their stated feelings to

look

legitimate. And asking Skybird to evaluate his own slot here (when that slot is likely to be confirmed tomorrow anyway!) is a waste of time, intended to fill out a post when TheWorst can't think of enough things that might look useful.

FAQ2 is likely also scum. The fact that he is so acutely self-aware strongly implies that he's trying to come to terms with a scum PM.

Spoiler: Other notes that are less pressingly important so I'm putting them behind a spoiler to put the key things front and centre

• Titus townread is based entirely off her predecessor, who was one of the only people scumhunting hard and constantly in the early part of the Day. Not keen on people who are forgetting this when wagoning her.
  
• Performer's obviously deliberate affectations in this game with the song lyrics etc are a HUGE indicator that the slot is town. People going 'this is weird, vote Performer' without thinking at all beyond the surface level are more likely to be scum - I'll have to look specifically into people doing that before long.
  
• Luna's town for quite a lot of reasons but I also think that this post is a strong indicator that, if choof's slot is town (which we will likely know to within a high degree of certainty by Tomorrow), she is also town. Changing your mind a lot and being unable to settle is usually a towntell (scum, for some reason, feel pressure to settle on what their reads are) and the only way I'd see that not being the case here is if the two were scum together, but choof's claim makes that highly unlikely.
  
• Talah is the townread who's closest to not being in that pile. I townread Vedith quite a bit for his effort around these posts, where the basic attempts to meta and actually looking up FAQ's experience strikes me as protown effort to sort out FAQ's alignment, and it bugged me that talah seemed to be nitpicking and implying that posts like the one quoted here don't come from town plenty of times. I also didn't really get why talah ended up voting IAI after what seemed to be a clear miscommunication re: Performer and softclaims. However, talah's sheer post count - particularly in an increasing pattern that I wouldn't expect from scum - makes that slot likely town to me.

Just gonna check up the vote count situation before I sort out my vote.

[ChannelDelibird]

Spoiler: Unofficial vote count

Performer - 4 - FAQ, Talah, VeeGee, Skybird
Titus - 3 - AJ, Zakk, Banana
Zakk - 3 - Vedith, Titus, Luna
AJ - 1 - Performer
Banana - 1 - CDB
Vedith - 1 - IAI

Not voting: TheWorst

Of the leading wagons, then, this is an absolute no-brainer.

UNVOTE: Banana
VOTE: Zakk

[BananaCucho]

Why is the ground moving so quickly once performer hit L-1?

[FA_Q2]

Why zakk?

That is a no information lynch. There is zero from his interactions to tell us who his partners might be if he flips scum and if he flips town there is nothing as well.

With performer, even a town flip gives us some info on Titus. I can go for Vegee but that is essentially a policy lynch.

[Luna Fox]

Why zakk?

That is a no information lynch. There is zero from his interactions to tell us who his partners might be if he flips scum and if he flips town there is nothing as well.

With performer, even a town flip gives us some info on Titus. I can go for Vegee but that is essentially a policy lynch.

He's voting people for being scummy instead of being scum, which reeks of low-hanging fruit hunting.

[ChannelDelibird]

Why zakk?

That is a no information lynch.

I can go for Vegee but that is essentially a policy lynch.

Checks out.

[ChannelDelibird]

He's voting people for being scummy instead of being scum, which reeks of low-hanging fruit hunting.

Feels like you're overstating how much there is to say about zakk's alignment to make yourself feel better about what is, let's face it, almost entirely a policy lynch. Just own it if this is what's going to happen.

[Luna Fox]

He's voting people for being scummy instead of being scum, which reeks of low-hanging fruit hunting.

Feels like you're overstating how much there is to say about zakk's alignment to make yourself feel better about what is, let's face it, almost entirely a policy lynch. Just own it if this is what's going to happen.

I will own it, i never said i wouldn't, but that's the conclusion i came to after my back and forth with him.

[Aj The Epic]

CBD, your unofficial vote count is at least a bit wrong, I'm voting performer right now.

I don't understand derailing the wagon before we could at least get a claim from it. Now we're just wasting a lot of build-up on this from someone a good deal (near majority) had as scum for a policy lynch. I want his lynch even more right now to know if scum was helping this derailing.

The only lynch I'd agree to with CDB is Fa_q2's. We've got too much information to just settle a policy lynch after an entire week worth of information. It would be better to hope a vig takes him over actually lynching him.

I'm obviously disappointed with CDB's read on me off of one post where I made it clear I was going to work with Luna over arguing with her. If that is your entire basis for a read out of 120+ posts plus is a comparison when I'm calling Luna scum to town and wanting to work with her, it's a sadly shallow read.

[ChannelDelibird]

I don't understand derailing the wagon before we could at least get a claim from it.

Because the wagon is

duuuuuuuuumb

. The fact that it got this far does not oblige us to push it any further; it's a sunk cost.

The only lynch I'd agree to with CDB is Fa_q2's. We've got too much information to just settle a policy lynch after an entire week worth of information. It would be better to hope a vig takes him over actually lynching him.

I agree in that I'd rather lynch TheWorst or FAQ than zakk. But a policy lynch on zakk is significantly better than either likely town Performer or likely town Titus, the other major wagons right now.

I'm obviously disappointed with CDB's read on me off of one post where I made it clear I was going to work with Luna over arguing with her. If that is your entire basis for a read out of 120+ posts plus is a comparison when I'm calling Luna scum to town and wanting to work with her, it's a sadly shallow read.

If it were a more developed read, I might be doing something about it, but it does bug me that you made a show of saying 'townhunting is bad' then later were happy to say 'let's POE this based on our mutual townreads'. Also note that reading a player isn't about aggregating all of their posts to say 'well, their average post is X amount of scummy' - one particular post or set of posts can be enough to see what you need to see.

Again, if I were more sold on this, I'd say so. But I don't think that the contradiction shown is a good look for you, and the rest of your posts didn't push me an awful lot in the other direction.

[Aj The Epic]

Let's get this out there: I wasn't going to participate in PoE. I wanted Luna to do it because I had no idea what to think of Choof/banana.

Do you want to just agree to Fa_q2 as a middle ground over Zakk? I'd much rather not take a PL and would jump immediately to get something better than a PL.

[ChannelDelibird]

UNVOTE: zakk
VOTE: FAQ2

[Aj The Epic]

UNVOTE: zakk
VOTE: FAQ2

[Aj The Epic]

lol just c/p'd and forgot you had zakk there :/

[ChannelDelibird]

Ruleset prioritises intent, you'll be fine

[BBmolla]

VOTECOUNT ONE POINT TIRTERN

PERFORMER - 4 - FA_Q2, TALAH, VEEGEE, SKYBIRD,
ZAKK - 3 - VEDITH, TITUS, LUNA FOX,
TITUS - 2 - ZAKK, BANANACUCHO,
FA_Q2 - 2 - CHANNELDELIBIRD, AJ THE EPIC,
AJ THE EPIC - 1 - PERFORMER,
VEDITH - 1 - I AM INNOCENT

NOT VOTING: THEWORST,

DEADLINE: (expired on 2015-09-30 20:05:00)

WITH 14 ALIVE IT TAKES 8 TO LYNCH

[I Am Innocent]

Not sure why there is such a resistance to a vedith wagon. Of the four above with more than 1 vote, I lean towards faq2

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah that iso is pretty unimpressive.

unvote vedith
Vote fa_q2

[talah]

Welcome finally CDB, yes I did happen to look through the replacement queue after getting shitty about it and saw it was likely a cross-replace (as I presume was Titus). Still as you say, pretty non-alignment indicative.

There are a couple of things I want to address in your entrance post, particularly with regard to my questions to Vedith and IaI and their similarities and differences. Just telegraphing that, as you've characterised at least one question to Vedith as 'Nitpicking' when even more than a rudimentary glance at it would see more purpose than that. I've happened to have had the opportunity to have somewhat realtime conversations with both and there is a bit of insight to both, even if you believe my conclusions were/are likely, misunderstandings.

Anyway I'm happy enough with either of Zakk or FAQ as compromises. I do think, however, that Performer should have been pushed at least to claim and possibly to some more serious discussion of whether the content he's providing is anywhere near likely town.

But anyway I've got to go to work and will do this simply because FAQ was on the Performer wagon and Zakk's votes have been largely meaningless.

UNVOTE: Performer
VOTE: Zakk

[Luna Fox]

Unvote
Vote: FAQ2

mfw i keep switching between my scumreads can we all please agree on something already :<

[Performer]

Why zakk?

That is a no information lynch. There is zero from his interactions to tell us who his partners might be if he flips scum and if he flips town there is nothing as well.

With performer, even a town flip gives us some info on Titus. I can go for Vegee but that is essentially a policy lynch.

Thanks for your answer to my question in 982, FA

VOTE: FA