NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[talah]

Well I'm straight up saying none of the claims except the vig should be lynched, as I don't believe the claim.
I believe the others can exist.

Actually I thought you had something more cereberal.
I see your voting patterns and don't mind them really aside from the Performer wagon break but I question why you think it's a good idea to lynch AJ today.
(After our subsequent chats, that is.)

[Skybird]

Anyway, Vee, these were my questions - why did you just sheep my wagon on d1? Because I was most likely to be lynched?
And how about for zak? Because he happened to be most likely to be lynched on d1?
Note - you mentioned at least one of us was "most likely to be lynched" when you voted us. I'm asking you to clarify. What was YOUR reason to vote me and zak.

I'm pretty sure I had already answered this question multiple times already.

I went through your ISO VG and I don't see where you answered these questions once, let alone multiple times. Could you please point out where you answered them for me? If you can't, please answer them.

[Vedith]

To be honest. I'm not against the IaI lynch - Not because I don't believe him, at this stage I think we need to thing of play over claims. What did IaI actually gain from making everyone confirm a kill preventing role? I was expecting something good like "I roleblocked Jim". The fact that he shot you (which is confusing to why you anyway) and the fact that he did not start with this and then ask if there was a reason that you didn't die it my concern.

After that, we are exactly where we stood, apart from outing out 2 other roles (including his own) and adding an additional possible target of the scum.

AJ - He's not really top on my list now to lynch. I am still up for either FN just for information based results.

So there you have it.

[I Am Innocent]

Talah, here are my thoughts in response to ur post:

1) so in your dream world, I am scum with the other 4 claims being town because I am in a super strong scum team, one that you continue to make stronger in your head with each additional claim, one of which is an unlimited strongman as u suggested, yet you were the sole target and didn't die because the unlimited strongman.... (Finish the sentence please).

2) have u looked at my scum meta? I onced faked a cop claim as a mafia traitor and did not just get one town mislynched, but two on false investigations. So for your reasoning to say it must be a fake claim that scum IAI hadnt thought through is lazier than me not looking at meta before I used my vig shot. Look at my town meta, and more often than not, I'm pretty good at picking out the weak town mislynched targets from D1. Assuming I'm right about performer, that means your last 4 votes on D1 were on town players. I stand by my shot on u from N1, and would say there is a decent chance of more of that N2 (there's my hint for my N2 target)

3) to answer your question no I didn't look at meta. I never use meta unless I played with person before or maybe sometimes is someone else provides it. I work full time in a demanding job, I'm married with 4 kids, I usually don't play more than one game at a time, so yeah looking through others games is not really something I can afford to use my little free time to do. But once again take a look through my games and prove me wrong. You apparently have more time than me.

4) oh your imaginary scum team also has a JK. Why did sky birds note go through in your imaginary world where the other 4 claims are legit? Wouldn't scum want to discredit sky bird by leaving her alive without a result? Maybe town has a role blocker that blocked the scum JK? Problem with your dream world of the 4 legit town claims is that you can't make up a reasonable scum team to offset it that lines up with the actions we've seen at night. I tried to do that before my claim, and it gets even worse now when you add FAQs to the mix.

You say I diverted attention from performer. Well you appear to be diverting attention from the other 4 claimed players, making me wonder if there is more than 1 scum in there.

@group, I am also willing to lynch talah today. His vote on a player that can prove his role future nights while diverting attention from 2 roles that cannot is very scummy. Not sure why more of u can't see this!

[I Am Innocent]

@vedith, if I had started with that and talah said I'm 2 shot BP or something like that, would you have believed him?

I was hoping to catch talah in a lie and figured we'd have no more protective roles to out in a game of 14 with a BP Doc. And if we did it would cause me to disbelieve one of those claims anyway.

It was a minimal risk that had great rewards.

To everyone not named Talah, do you think there is scum in AJ/FAQ?

[talah]

After that, we are exactly where we stood, apart from outing out 2 other roles (including his own) and adding an additional possible target of the scum.

I think I fucked up that myself by saying it would be useful to claim kill-stopping or not roles.

AJ - He's not really top on my list now to lynch. I am still up for either FN just for information based results.

So there you have it.

Fair enough. I think it's more useful tomorrow after another message from each gets sent if we need to do so.

[Vedith]

@vedith, if I had started with that and talah said I'm 2 shot BP or something like that, would you have believed him?

Nope... I would have called her a liar.
Considering that she was so open to AJ being 2 shot BP.

Also - If AJ is scum, Talah is more or less guaranteed scum in my books.

[Vedith]

Fair enough. I think it's more useful tomorrow after another message from each gets sent if we need to do so.

I would like to suggest some names. I think that it shouldn't be myself or you. As we both can be seen as biased.
I think 3 names given that is all agreed, and each FN picks a name from those 3.

[talah]

Talah, here are my thoughts in response to ur post:

1) so in your dream world, I am scum with the other 4 claims being town because I am in a super strong scum team, one that you continue to make stronger in your head with each additional claim, one of which is an unlimited strongman as u suggested, yet you were the sole target and didn't die because the unlimited strongman.... (Finish the sentence please).

It's not getting stronger, it's the original theory I floated to Performer as an example of how easy it would be to counter the current claims.
I didn't modify it when FAQ claimed - it's still favouring scum.
I think your claim is bull because you have no flow of thought to back up submitting a kill against me.

It's not a "dream world" by the way, it's how I'm assessing the game.

2) have u looked at my scum meta? I onced faked a cop claim as a mafia traitor and did not just get one town mislynched, but two on false investigations. So for your reasoning to say it must be a fake claim that scum IAI hadnt thought through is lazier than me not looking at meta before I used my vig shot. Look at my town meta, and more often than not, I'm pretty good at picking out the weak town mislynched targets from D1. Assuming I'm right about performer, that means your last 4 votes on D1 were on town players. I stand by my shot on u from N1, and would say there is a decent chance of more of that N2 (there's my hint for my N2 target)

My problem is you had a convoluted reason to be "right" about Performer.
After that you decide to "Vig" a a pretty strong townie.
I'm guessing I was right on at least a couple of my Day 1 reads (including yourself).

3) to answer your question no I didn't look at meta. I never use meta unless I played with person before or maybe sometimes is someone else provides it. I work full time in a demanding job, I'm married with 4 kids, I usually don't play more than one game at a time, so yeah looking through others games is not really something I can afford to use my little free time to do. But once again take a look through my games and prove me wrong. You apparently have more time than me.

I work in a full time job as well. My boss is away this week and our third has been away on stress leave for 3 months. I'll take breaks when I need and you really *should* look at my scum meta as it takes a whole lot more fucking time for me to come up with something as scum, than it does for me to act as I usually do as town.
Is this comment game-related or are you just saying that I have more time than you?
How does that relate to your decision to submit a "vig" against me though?
Are you saying you had no time therefore you submitted a shitty vig?

4) oh your imaginary scum team also has a JK. Why did sky birds note go through in your imaginary world where the other 4 claims are legit? Wouldn't scum want to discredit sky bird by leaving her alive without a result? Maybe town has a role blocker that blocked the scum JK? Problem with your dream world of the 4 legit town claims is that you can't make up a reasonable scum team to offset it that lines up with the actions we've seen at night. I tried to do that before my claim, and it gets even worse now when you add FAQs to the mix.

Yeah my imaginary scumteam, is, imaginary. I was giving a specific example of roles that could easily account for the current claims because hey - people were super keen on claims-lynching. I thought they were possible.
Scum can't discredit Skybird. The slot claimed *first* as I have already mentioned and you don't seem to be interested in actually thinking through. Town has a roleblocker? ok Kappa. Again with "My dream world". Come up with a better working theory that accounts for the N1 nightkill and I'll think about it.

What's the problem with my "dream scum-team" that it doesn't line up with what we've seen?
You just said that precisely so please correct the several posts I've made supposing why the current PR-claims (except for yours) are hyperbolic and unrealistic.
Because I don't belive your claim and I've made it pretty clear that there isn't a good reason to lynch any claim except for yours today.

You say I diverted attention from performer. Well you appear to be diverting attention from the other 4 claimed players, making me wonder if there is more than 1 scum in there.

Where did I say you diverted attention from Performer?
I said you protected him by making up a claim that didn't exist.
I said others protected performer.
It's not the same thing.

@group, I am also willing to lynch talah today. His vote on a player that can prove his role future nights while diverting attention from 2 roles that cannot is very scummy. Not sure why more of u can't see this!

Mokay good lynch. Well thought through. OMGIS

[talah]

Fair enough. I think it's more useful tomorrow after another message from each gets sent if we need to do so.

I would like to suggest some names. I think that it shouldn't be myself or you. As we both can be seen as biased.
I think 3 names given that is all agreed, and each FN picks a name from those 3.

I'm flexible but cautious and will give reasons if I disagree.

[Vedith]

I'm flexible but cautious and will give reasons if I disagree.

That's fair enough. I think that we should go by the majority for agreed names.
I still think that 1 FN is lying, it's just a case of who.

@Titus - What's your view with the 2 FN doing this?

Additional - FB is in this game! Nice!
*Waves franticly* Hi FB!

[I Am Innocent]

Regarding AJ/FAQ claims

:
I don't think we have enough evidence / good reasoning to lynch either today.
Even as a hypothetical - my current running theory being that there are simple enough roles which would counter the current town PR claims (minus the Vig claim which I don't believe for a second if it was rounded up to the closest integer) - Consider what I suggested to Performer.
Scum
= 1 unlimited strongman
= 1 jailkeeper
= 2 goons

If there is an unlimited strongman why was there no night kill?

If there is a JK, why did sky birds note go through assuming those 4 claims are legit.

The only answer is those 4 roles can't be town, and the obvious fake is most likely AJ/FAQ.

[talah]

To create chaos and confusion? Though it didn't end up in your favor and attracted a ton of attention to you.
Ehhhh mehhhh idk now. All these claims are crazy.

IaI's info doesn't explain how there was an NK from mafia that night.

Well assuming the bodyguard is the legit claim, I'm wondering if both his bullet's are gone on that vest of his.

Sorry couldn't help it.

I just skipped back 3 pages reading up and found IaI's thoery on the missing nightkill.

Apparently I was targeted by both scum and him.

[talah]

Regarding AJ/FAQ claims

:
I don't think we have enough evidence / good reasoning to lynch either today.
Even as a hypothetical - my current running theory being that there are simple enough roles which would counter the current town PR claims (minus the Vig claim which I don't believe for a second if it was rounded up to the closest integer) - Consider what I suggested to Performer.
Scum
= 1 unlimited strongman
= 1 jailkeeper
= 2 goons

If there is an unlimited strongman why was there no night kill?

If there is a JK, why did sky birds note go through assuming those 4 claims are legit.

The only answer is those 4 roles can't be town, and the obvious fake is most likely AJ/FAQ.

Hi, as I said it was a realistic combo that easily countered the current claims.
It makes a bit of sense as far as I'm thinking.
But I dont' expect Molla to be so vanilla about it.

We have no flip so I want more info.

[Vedith]

The only answer is those 4 roles can't be town, and the obvious fake is most likely AJ/FAQ.

Well, obviously the 4 roles are not all town and there is scum within these 4 (Probably 1, but max of 2).

[talah]

If there is an unlimited strongman why was there no night kill?

Strongman was under threat from town PRs Day 1 and the Jailkeeper utility was used to protect instead of to block.

If there is a JK, why did sky birds note go through assuming those 4 claims are legit.

See above. Friendly neighbour only confirms themself once. They can send multiple messages to do so.
Tell me how Skybiurd gets overlooked in any other scenario considering she calimed first. There's nothing unique about the theoretical scumteam. She still didn't get killed or blocked.

The only answer is those 4 roles can't be town, and the obvious fake is most likely AJ/FAQ.

You're really not interested in thinking through things from a town perspective huh.
How about you iterate through the current claims and what you think about them.

Because at the least you should be thinking that one of AJ or myself is Town due to the no-kill.

[Luna Fox]

If performer was jailkept, any investigative result would come back as no result

This is wrong, you're thinking of a rolestopper+roleblocker variant, not a jailkeeper (Protection+Roleblock)

The only answer is those 4 roles can't be town, and the obvious fake is most likely AJ/FAQ.

Well, obviously the 4 roles are not all town and there is scum within these 4 (Probably 1, but max of 2).

You mean 5 right? 1 BP Doc + 2 FNs + 1 Vig + 1 BG

[Luna Fox]

Also sorry talah but i agree with IaI here, if scum had a roleblocker they'd have blocked the FN, im guessing they have a limited strongman, but that's at best just a guess

[Aj The Epic]

I just don't think all those roles can prove themselves at night. Some will fall out naturally.

[Vedith]

You mean 5 right? 1 BP Doc + 2 FNs + 1 Vig + 1 BG

No, I mean 4.
I have already suggested that I didn't like the play from IaI.
However, if he is town, the role would fit perfectly with 1 of those 4 being scum.

[Luna Fox]

My PoV is that Aj is a scum doc.

[Aj The Epic]

And unfortunately nothing I do will help you understand that you're wrong.

[Luna Fox]

My issue with Aj's claim is the way he claimed, as if just for claiming he should be off the lynch pool, and not because he's town.

[Vedith]

The way he claimed?
You mean with 1 vote on him and under no actual pressure at that stage?

[Luna Fox]

You mean with 1 vote on him and under no actual pressure at that stage?

That's part of it, i didn't think much of it until we had the BG claim.
Mostly he's been going "My claim will resolve itself, i shouldn't be lynched because i'm a doctor, i'm a threat to scum" things like that bother me a lot.