Blitz 1: C9++ (GAME OVER!)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

K. I'll give you time to do that and leave the thread alone for today. I don't know when deadline is but I think it's coming soon.

[Persivul]

As I've stated previously, you can't prove a negative. The burden of proof is on the wagon to show why he's scummy. I've shown clearly that they hadn't come remotely close to doing that. Therefore, the wagon was bad. I didn't need to prove that Blocky was town in order to reasonably oppose that wagon.

I didn't ask you to prove he was town.

I asked if you thought he was town.

I don't know - there's not enough to go on.

Point is that I don't need to town read him in order to judge that the wagon is bad. There just wasn't enough evidence presented to warrant L-1. Lynches that are not discussed adequately are not in town's favor.

[ProHawk]

Looking at the vote count ocean would be a good person to push

[ProHawk]

Where do you sit ETL?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

2 days as of this post.

p-edit: You didn't say any of that when I was asking you to justify your position. In fact, you are now taking my reasoning that I gave Titus when she presented her case.

p-edit: I strongly think Persivul is scum. His argument against your wagon was the fact that it had a lot of votes on it. Check his ISO, you will see it right there. I said that was bad, along with several of his other posts that I didn't like, and then Titus asked me to help push your slot. I asked her for the case because I didn't feel strongly about him. She gave me a bunch of IIoA and crappy PBPA which I dismantled into it's relevant points (one, maybe two items), which Persivul has now appropriated in an attempt to say "You're doing the same thing as me so why am I scummy for it?" I encourage you to read both of our ISOs and come to your own conclusion.

[Persivul]

Is it an actual miscommunication going on here that is preventing you from understanding what I'm saying or are you twisting words on purpose? I'm trying to understand why you seem completely unable to respond directly.

p-edit: hi prohawk.

Personally I think your head is so far into your tunnel that you'll never be able to see out of it, and that's why you don't understand me. Note that I haven't voted you or pushed you, as I think this is TvT and you're just stuck in your ego and can't let it go. Within our argument, I'm more concerned about Kop shifting gears without reason.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I haven't seen enough from Ocean to have any strong feelings but would not object to a wagon there.

p-edit: How is that even an answer to my question.... I asked you a question and it took over 24 hours and 100 posts for you to answer me straight.

[Persivul]

p-edit: I strongly think Persivul is scum. His argument against your wagon was the fact that it had a lot of votes on it. Check his ISO, you will see it right there. I said that was bad, along with several of his other posts that I didn't like, and then Titus asked me to help push your slot. I asked her for the case because I didn't feel strongly about him. She gave me a bunch of IIoA and crappy PBPA which I dismantled into it's relevant points (one, maybe two items), which Persivul has now appropriated in an attempt to say

"You're doing the same thing as me so why am I scummy for it?"

I encourage you to read both of our ISOs and come to your own conclusion.

Yep.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm actually just going to step back from this - I'm done interacting with you, Persivul.

[ProHawk]

What does Titus think about ocean?

I'm going to start here.

VOTE: Ocean

[Persivul]

I haven't seen enough from Ocean to have any strong feelings but would not object to a wagon there.

p-edit: How is that even an answer to my question.... I asked you a question and it took over 24 hours and 100 posts for you to answer me straight.

Because, as noted, the question is a red herring.

I don't need to personally have a read on Blocky to see that the evidence presented against him is insufficient to warrant L-1.

How is it that you don't understand this concept?

[Titus]

What does Titus think about ocean?

I'm going to start here.

VOTE: Ocean

Help me with Blocky and I will help you with Ocean. In a very straightforward way.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

He is blocky......

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Since when do you bargain Titus? I'm liking you less and less.

[OceanWind]

@Kop

, answer the questions I left for you in my previous post (497).

Can you also quote specific arguments that Persivul brought up and why you thought they were a good defense?

Yes but that would make me be a white knight.

This is not an answer. I do want to see what parts of his defense you liked.

Shouldn't you be voting Persivul here

Why would I be doing that? I think you misread what I wrote in the post you quoted. Read it again.

Like really I'm reading this as "I'm sheeping etl's scum read and then voting somewhere else"

Then either you are reading it wrong or confusing my post with something else. I have no idea how you could get that impression from what I wrote because it's the complete opposite. I said that between Persivul and EspeciallyTheLies's arguments, EspeciallyTheLies argued well whereas Persivul was unable to hold his own in a graceful or elegant way. That tells me that EspeciallyTheLies is relatively experienced whereas Persivul is a newbie. Ranger's characterization of how the argument went down isn't something I think a town player could genuinely believe. At that point, I didn't have a good alignment read based on Persivul's own posts. Since then, his posting has moved townward with his cases on Marge and Kop.

Who sucks up to newbies d1 in a game that could have a sk and a vig

Scum do that because newbies are easily susceptible to buddying and often don't have the experience to closely scrutinize people that agree with them. Vocal newbies like Persivul are good targets to buddy because they can be brought deep into the game as opposed to very good players that need to be night killed early on. What does having an sk or a vig do to change scum behaviors?

@Flubbernugget -

What are your reads on EspeciallyTheLies, Ranger, Persivul, Kop, and Marge?

I haven't seen enough from Ocean to have any strong feelings but would not object to a wagon there.

Then I suggest you read my posts. It's clear that you haven't read because there are things that I addressed to you/are relevant to you that you haven't responded to. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that in a fast pace blitz game and your tunnel of Persivul, you missed my posts. That's easily solved by ISOing me.

VOTE: Ocean

Have you read the thread?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But mostly because your case fell apart.

p-edit: I read every post. I saw you address me but I was mobile at the time and then forgot but at the moment I don't have the energy/will to go dig it up. I'll get to it in a bit here. If you feel like having a real-time conversation, I'm all for that. I operate much better that way.

[Persivul]

p-edit: I read every post.

Except the one where I changed my vote from Blocky to Margeside...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So, you think I'm town, but you like poking at me because....?

[OceanWind]

But mostly because your case fell apart.

p-edit: I read every post. I saw you address me but I was mobile at the time and then forgot but at the moment I don't have the energy/will to go dig it up. I'll get to it in a bit here. If you feel like having a real-time conversation, I'm all for that. I operate much better that way.

I think you are headed on the wrong track with Persivul. His early posts weren't all that impressive but his case on Kop is something I agree with and I liked his Marge push.

The way Ranger and Titus are defending him is way too obvious to be something scumbuddies do to each other. I feel that Persivul is town and at least one of Ranger or Titus are scum, Ranger being the more likely one. You are conf-biasing most defenses of Persivul as partner to partner but the game makes more sense if Persivul is town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

way too obvious to be something scumbuddies

Keep in mind that this is exactly what scumTitus does.

[ProHawk]

I have not. What is it about the thread that would make me unvote you?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ranger's characterization of how the argument went down isn't something I think a town player could genuinely believe

There's no accounting for stupidity. I wouldn't put it past anyone.

[OceanWind]

@EspeciallyTheLies

- I still have Titus as scummier than Persivul. As for Ranger, consider this post:

Well to put it bluntly, I think you're scum pushing him, and in the engagement between you two, he comes out on top. I don't think your points hold water, I think his posting looks town, so I will not be voting him.

It's smug in a way that feels like Ranger knows she's right about Persivul.

[Persivul]

So, you think I'm town, but you like poking at me because....?

...you're a tunnely douchebag who's letting scum coast.

A town read means I don't vote you. It doesn't mean I'm sharing warm showers with you. I'd only do that with Margeside, and I think she's scummy.

[OceanWind]

I have not. What is it about the thread that would make me unvote you?

I don't care about you unvoting me. I really need more content from you as you are at L-2 and there's a good chance you're getting lynched today. If you are town, help us read you.