Mini 497 - Game Over

[kabenon007]

K. Just doin' my duty! What makes you think he is being more newb scum than newb townie? I don't see it, but maybe you can... enlighten me.

[joost]

Several reasons actually:
- He jumped on a bandwagon, which is suspicious. Smart scum wouldn't do that so openly, newb scum might.
- He caused confusion deliberately, which only benifits scum.
- He posts nothing of content, not even when people have asked him to. At least I would think he would post something like: "Sorry, I won't do it again" if he had the towns best interest in mind.
- He posts very little, even a newb should know that to catch scum you need discussion.

These are all reasons for me to be suspicious of him. The fact that he does it all openly makes me thing he's a genuine newb and could very well mean that he's just playing poorly as a townie. But right now I think chances of him being actual scum are little over 50%, hence my vote on him. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be town, but he's the most suspicous player at the moment.

[-TinVision-]

I apologize if I confused with my actions in the random stage, but that was not my intention. Random pressure, in my opinion, is a legitimate tactic to spur activity and instigate revealing reactions.

I think the case on dusterhan is quite shaky, given that it's based on a couple posts and then his absence. Speaking of which, mod prod/replacement, please?

Everyone seems a little jumpy. We've got a lot of time to discuss and choose the best lynch candidate as long as we keep the thread active, so let's not rush into anything until we've enough content to work with, OK?

[Nirp]

what's the latest vote count?

This is started to be somewhat suspicious. After you have been asked to explain yourself several times, all you do is ask for a vote count? This is starting to look like you are actively lurking.

FOS dusterhan

. I am still waiting for you to post some actual content.

[-TinVision-]

Unvote, Vote dusterhan

. I didn't find your initial behavior that scummy, but your purposeful lurking is very much so. This is the 3rd vote on dusterhan, with 7 to lynch, in case anyone was wondering.

[joost]

I think the case on dusterhan is quite shaky, given that it's based on a couple posts and then his absence. Speaking of which, mod prod/replacement, please?

Everyone seems a little jumpy. We've got a lot of time to discuss and choose the best lynch candidate as long as we keep the thread active, so let's not rush into anything until we've enough content to work with, OK?

I agree my case on dusterhan is shaky and truth be told I would not hammer him if I had the chance. But so far it's the only case I had against anybody and it's an interesting topic to discuss and to keep the game active.

You are acting strangely, Tinvision. First you claim we are jumpy and we should take our time until we get content and less than an hour later you vote for Dusterhan eventhough you say the case on him is shaky? I take it you somehow missed Dusterhan's post (#93) since you asked for prod. But this is suspicious behaviour, my friend.

FoS: -TinVision-

[Sephiroth]

Im not yet really suspicious of Duster. I don't at all like his "going with the flow post" but thats not nearly enough to convince me. I also don't at all like his recent post asking for a vote count, though it is more anti town then it is pro scum (yes there is a difference). Undecided on him for now.

[Atticus]

...

@Atticus: So do you think that my and destructor's actions are unwarranted?

As newbs, no. Being suspicious of someone for contradicting themselves is something anyone would do. In the early stages of the game though, I barely pay attention. The actions of most people in those first few pages are frivolous and carefree.

[Nirp]

I think the case on dusterhan is quite shaky, given that it's based on a couple posts and then his absence. Speaking of which, mod prod/replacement, please?

Unvote, Vote dusterhan. I didn't find your initial behavior that scummy, but your purposeful lurking is very much so. This is the 3rd vote on dusterhan, with 7 to lynch, in case anyone was wondering.

Why this rather sudden change of heart? The only post inbetween these quotes was my own post, which did not really offer an amazing new piece of information prompting such a move. If you indeed missed dusterhan's latest post (as joost said, your earlier post did imply this), why didn't you say so?

[-TinVision-]

I did in the initial much longer draft of my post and then accidentally edited it out along with a bunch of fluff. Sorry bout that.

[Cavane]

Sorry for the delay.

VOTE COUNT

Sephiroth: 2 (Nekka-Lucifer, dusterhan)
dusterhan: 2 ( joost, -TinVision-)
joost: 1 (Nirp)
Nekka-Lucifer: 2 (kabenon007, Aimee)
kabenon007: 1 (Sephiroth)
destructor: 1 (Atticus)
-TinVision-: 1 (destructor)

Not Voting: 2 (Knuck, Silver Phoenix)

12 Alive, 7 to lynch.

[joost]

I did in the initial much longer draft of my post and then accidentally edited it out along with a bunch of fluff. Sorry bout that.

Which post? #102 or #104?

[destructor]

I apologize if I confused with my actions in the random stage, but that was not my intention. Random pressure, in my opinion, is a legitimate tactic to spur activity and instigate revealing reactions.

How much pressure could you have hoped to apply by randomly changing your vote to Knuck? And again, I have to ask how could changing to Knuck possibly have been a better move so far as random votes go? You words are not fitting to your actions.

I did in the initial much longer draft of my post and then accidentally edited it out along with a bunch of fluff. Sorry bout that.

What?!
How did this address the question? And what are you trying to pull here?
Please don't blame me for finding the fact that you claim to have 'edited' out your reasoning, when the lack of it is bought into question, and still fail to present it scummy!!

This bit of side-stepping as well as your unconvincing words about your posts don't sit well with me at all. That's not forgetting the vote on dusterhan either, which again contradicts your words. My vote stands.

Vote: -TinVision-

scumscumscumscum

[destructor]

I'm going to

FOS: Atticus

because it seems like he's being as good as a lurker. I haven't picked up anything to suggest that he's pro-Town. If anything, it's like he's downplaying most discussions without really contributing much to them besides very general points.

[-TinVision-]

Which post? #102 or #104?

#104, of course.

Please don’t blame me for finding the fact that you claim to have 'edited' out your reasoning, when the lack of it is bought into question, and still fail to present it scummy!!

Who’s blaming you? “Failed to present my reasoning”? I did present my reasoning. IT'S BLATANT LURKING. You know the thing that you keep harping about in Atticus and ignoring totally in dusterhan?

The only thing I “failed to present” was the fact that I had overlooked dusterhan’s latest post, so I was working from a different set of facts in Post #102 and Post #104. My posts show a clear change in opinion that is completely explained by my having missed dusterhan’s post #93.

It would be greatly to your credit if you presented a coherent argument that didn’t appeal to emotion.

Vote: -TinVision-

scumscumscumscum

Repeating it doesn’t make it truer. You're looking extremely opportunistic, destructor.

[kabenon007]

I don't know which of you two to believe on this one, but if we look at the facts, the logical choice is destructor. The posts show a sudden change in TinVision's perpective on dusterhan. And the explanation is that he editted out his reasoning. But that could be a lie. The only facts we have are in favor of destructor's analysis.

[Knuck]

Everyone seems a little jumpy. We've got a lot of time to discuss and choose the best lynch candidate as long as we keep the thread active, so let's not rush into anything until we've enough content to work with, OK?

Unvote, Vote dusterhan

. I didn't find your initial behavior that scummy, but your purposeful lurking is very much so. This is the 3rd vote on dusterhan, with 7 to lynch, in case anyone was wondering.

This sudden change is odd and the defense for it is kind of weak, the whole pointing out how many votes he has is what got me, maybe hoping to pull more people in.



Also Atticus if you put a low priority on the first day of gaming then what exactly do you suggest we do? We have been actively seeking out answers, motives and actions by players but everything is quickly dismissed by you because "It's early in the game". So should we wait it out until someone makes a massively scummy move? I agree that it's hard to get a good read on things and new players will often jump around their decisions but one liners dismissing scummy tactics helps no one.

[-TinVision-]

I don't know which of you two to believe on this one, but if we look at the facts, the logical choice is destructor. The posts show a sudden change in TinVision's perpective on dusterhan. And the explanation is that he editted out his reasoning. But that could be a lie. The only facts we have are in favor of destructor's analysis.

You do realize there's no semblance of logic in this? I'm quite serious. Just try to construct a valid, much less a sound logical argument out of that post.

Let's try shall we:

1. Either TinVision is lying or he is telling the truth.

2. The posts show a sudden change in TinVision's perspective on dusterhan.

3. TinVision claims the change in perspective was caused by noticing dusterhan's vote request.

4. The only facts we have are in favor of destructor's analysis.


You see how the first three are facts, and the fourth is an opinion that is not logically derived from the first three? In fact, we can't reach any logical conclusion from the assumptions you've provided.


kabenon, you need to either :

a) construct a logical argument

b) admit that (4) is an opinion and that you were mistaken or lying when you said that you arrived at it using logic.



Note that this is the second time I've had to point out that my explanation of the shift in perspective is not the edit, my explanation is noticing dusterhan's vote request. The reason I didn't explain my change in perspective in my "Vote dusterhan" post was proofreading. There is a significant difference, so kindly stop misrepresenting me.

[kabenon007]

All I am saying is that destructor is right, you did change your mind suddenly. And there is no proof other than your word that you editted your post. Now I did miss that your explanation was noticing dusterhan's vote request. However, that was not the point of my post. The point was to say that if we were keeping a by the numbers score based on the facts we have, destructor would have won. But you will notice I did not vote for you, because I don't think makes you scummy. It is just something I noticed and thought should be brought up.

[-TinVision-]

Meh. All the philosophy classes I’ve taken have made me a little touchy about inaccurate use of the term logic. Anyway, I don’t really think that the fact that I did change my mind suddenly is a “fact in destructor’s favor”. It’s just a fact. You can interpret it any way you choose.

[joost]

Well I think it's a fact and it definitely isn't in your favour...

Meanwhile, where is dusterhan? I would like to hear him say something of content.

[Nirp]

Meanwhile, where is dusterhan? I would like to hear him say something of content.

Seconded. I think we have given him enough time by now, so

unvote, vote dusterhan

until he starts posting (or is replaced if he disappears entirely).

As for -TinVision-, I am willing to believe that his excuse is acceptable and that this was a simple mistake on his behalf.

[Atticus]

Sorry for not being able to post yesterday. Marching band, cancel, practice, ice cream, all that shiz.

[Atticus]

Knuck, I don't suggest that you exclude all information from day one and the random stage.

I

quite simply do not give as much thought to scum tells in that period of the game. And I thought some people were overreacting to TinVision. And I thought I'd tell them to chill.

Hey, Nirp, are you scum, or just opportunistic?

[kabenon007]

I was kinda wodering the same thing there Atticus. We have all established that dusterhan is lurking, we have asked him to post, and he hasn't. Why would placing a vote on him at this point do any good at all, unless Nirp was scum? I don't know, it does seem a tad scummy...