Open Countdown! Mini 487! GAME OVER!

[Mirth]

Mirth: because I'm narrowing my SK search to those who weren't on HazQ wagon. And now that we know both deepfried/Xyzzy was active during that period (I forgot which player it was at the time, doesn't matter to my argument) I find it very unlikely that SK wasn't on that wagon. And deepfried/Xyzzy certainly wasn't on it.

Alright, so that would be pretty much everyone still alive except Xyzzy. Because at the point of Hazzel's lynch, the only people not on the wagon were myself and Xyzzy. And I made it clear my vote would probably migrate over to Hazzel closer to deadline (I think you beat me to it), so how exactly does isolating the Hazzel bandwagon help you?

[Raffles]

VC:
4 HazzelQ(

Kinetic, MGM, Stewie HeatherLou

)
1 MGM ( HazzelQ)
1 Kinetic(CuriousKarmaDog)

Watch this vote count, there is SK on that list, I'm sure of it.

I mean this.

[Mirth]

Yes, I again repeat my question. You then hammered, I probably would have agreed to hammer. And those would be the other four people still alive. So how exactly doe this help you?

[Raffles]

I didn't hammer at this point. I backed off to see if SK might hammer, and gave him plenty of time. MGM backed off, Kinetic backed off. And then deadline drew near, so those two hopped back on again. I subsequently hammered. Before that post I think I've already stated my intention to vote for HazQ (I maybe wrong about this point - it could have been after)

[Mirth]

You misunderstand my question. The only people still alive are the people on that bandwagon. I just don't see how the bandwagon will narrow things down.

[Kinetic]

Just timeline reasons: Raffles you voted to put HQ at -2, i placed him at -1, then MGM hammered. (Then I did a little hammer graphic that I've been waiting to do since I joined the site. )

As for the SK being alive... I think that might be a given at this point. I keep thinking why would Pooky keep the twilight going this long... seems to me that he might be waiting for the SK to send his kill. If I'm wrong, yay for me, but I'm not sure at this point.

If I die, my last will stands: I think heather is one of the mafia, and Stewie is still my top suspect for SK.

[Mirth]

Maybe Pooky hasn't had a chance to check yet. Also, the SK has been pretty much on deadline with his kills, so I think your previous guess about sending them in advance was probably right.

My opinion of who is what depends on what Xyzzy comes back as, since he's second on my list of who I think the SK is. (First, is still Kinetic. Mafiawise, I don't think MGM or Kinetic are mafia.)

[Raffles]

You misunderstand my question. The only people still alive are the people on that bandwagon. I just don't see how the bandwagon will narrow things down.

Ummm I take your point. You are almost right. But you are alive, for example.

[Kinetic]

Yea, but Raffles, by the end of Day 1, Mirth even said she'd vote for HQ... I don't think anyone alive wouldn't have at the end of the day...

[Raffles]

No I brought up that vote count because Sk could have easily hammered at that point, but he didn't. It was mid-week, HQ was very scummy, so ideal condition. That's why I smell a definite SK in those 4.

[Kinetic]

And you still don't understand... the SK doesn't CARE about those 3-4 days. Being on that list of yours or not, the SK could care less. They mean nothing. If we had hammered on Wednesday or if we hammered on Saturday, the SK STILL got a kill immediately after and we then had a week before the next one... The SK wins when we do not lynch in time and he gets a free kill with no reciprocation.

[Raffles]

SK would... if he is clever. We should strive to have as much discussion as possible before the next strike. And that means salvaging those 3-4 days.

[Kinetic]

That is pure WIFOM and you KNOW it. If the SK hammered early, people would look at him suspiciously (like Stewie now), no way the SK is going to do that early. Now what is the best way to try and throw suspicion off you as scum? Do EXACTLY what you would expect scum to do, i.e. hammer right now.

After two weeks of NO lynching, despite heated argument it wouldn't surprise me if the SK thought that even the lynch on HQ would falter and die out. It didn't and because of that he ALSO made his first substantial kill, and you guys nearly fell RIGHT into his trap when he killed CKD to try and frame me. Heck, you and Mirth tried to quick-lynch me.

The SK 'might' be on your little list Raffles, but honestly, you know the whole WIFOM case yourself, and there is no way you could say lynching early is GOOD for the SK. Lynching at all is bad for the SK. We were nearly in LYLO because of the SK and if HQ wasn't mafia we could have lost to the mafia real quickly.

[Raffles]

Contray, I don't believe it to be a WIFOM at all. Stewie's vote only made him look opportunistic (That is not to say he wasn't, he may well have been) was because of lack of contribution. Had it been anyone else voicing suspicion (like me) hammering on deadline would have been perfectly acceptable.

If I was SK, I would have definitely hammered at that point. Why? Because I could so easily get away with it. There are so many roads I could go down that are perfectly safe. I could advocate snappy lynching is a good thing like you do. I could say HazQ was scummy as hell. I could claim that I didn't think in the way that it would raise SK's kill rate. Etc. etc. Possibilities are virtually endless.

[Mirth]

Heck, you and Mirth tried to quick-lynch me.

This is false. I unvoted you when Heather put you at L-1 specifically to avoid quicklynch. (and then just got really fed up with waiting for xyzzy.)

But I agree that hammering 3-4 days before deadline would definately raise a few eyebrows. If you hammered that early, you kill a few possible days of conversation. Only reason to do this is if you're either sure or stupid. Only two types of players can be sure: Mafia (they'd be sure of who their partners are), and SK (he'd be sure of who isn't him.) Early hammer would just be endless WIFOM for the town along these points.

Also,

mod: can you please prod Heather

And, MGM are you read to share yet?

[Raffles]

The only reason it would raise eyebrows would probably be because I raised those issues. Back then, pretty much all active posters apart from CKD and I were thirsty for blood.

[Mirth]

The only reason it would raise eyebrows would probably be because I raised those issues. Back then, pretty much all active posters apart from CKD and I were thirsty for blood.

Uh huh. This isn't true. CKD wanted Kinetic dead, and I was quite adament about avoiding about not voting too far ahead of the deadline.

[Raffles]

You're right. I'll give you that. Didn't really notice it at the time though... sorry.

[Kinetic]

The only reason it would raise eyebrows would probably be because I raised those issues. Back then, pretty much all active posters apart from CKD and I were thirsty for blood.

I think its a little unfair to call me bloodthirsty. I was convinced that we NEEDED to lynch that day or else we were going to lose. I was also fairly convinced that HQ was scum.

I went with what I thought was right and pushed it hard. I think a lack of motivation to do so was a lot odder than anything Raffles.

[Mgm]

No I brought up that vote count because Sk could have easily hammered at that point, but he didn't. It was mid-week, HQ was very scummy, so ideal condition. That's why I smell a definite SK in those 4.

That just sounds like a setup. Why would the SK hammer early? They have the time to wait, contrary to the town.

[Mgm]

And to speak in Dr. Phil terms. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Up until a few pages ago, discussion was severely lacking. If the SK is scared of the additional discussion a 3-4 could cause, they're a wimp.

[Raffles]

And as a Dr. House fan, he maybe a wuss, but at least he's covering his ass.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

xyzzy was lynched!

He was a member of the Mafia!

*cue collective gasp plus creepy theme music*

Final VC Day 2:
4 xyzzy(Mirth, MgM, Kinetic, Stewie)
2 Kinetic(HeatherLou, Raffles)

[Raffles]

Seems our SK wasn't on the ball this time round... but cookies all round for lynching mafia!

[Kinetic]

Wow. That definitely is awesome. But Raffles, I think that the SK was waiting the same as us for an alignment here. Its late in the game, random killings aren't going to win him the game. That being said, he could theoretically kill anyone now and not have to worry about ending the game prematurely.