Open 42 - Friends and Enemies - (Game Over) before 495

[Sir Tornado]

Not so random

Vote: YogurtBandit

[Sir Tornado]

Why the vote change Shanba?

[Sir Tornado]

I favour YB lynch at the moment. He's on my list of persons to not allow to live until endgame because he's very difficult to get a read on (He always seems to be scummy to me), and I am following this strategy henceforth in all games I am in with YB (this is because I have lost 2 endgames with YB, and both of us were town on both the occasions)

I don't find Lemming's and Shanba's exchanging all that alarming. This is mainly because I avoid such outrageous interactions with my scum buddies when I am scum this early in the game. It serves absolutely no purpose except linking both of you subconsciously in the town's collective mind.

[Sir Tornado]

Urgh. I dun like this argument here too much. Your reason for wanting to lynch him is weak (you don't even think he's scum, necessarily) and you coincedntally want the player wiht the most votes to be lynched. Unvote, Vote SirT

You do realize that I voted for YB

before

any one else voted, don't you? At that time, he had zero votes on him.

And, no, that is not WIFOM. You can generally label any hypothetical case as WIFOM in mafia, which they are not.

[Sir Tornado]

They are not WIFOM, because you expect the scum to follow general pattern in their behaviour. Tracking down those patterns is a very good way to hunt scum. So, how do you distinguish a scum tell from something that looks suspicious, but is actually not suspicious?

You try to put yourself in the scum's shoes and ask yourself whether you would do such a thing as scum. Almost everything the scum does, they do to gain some sort of advantage. There are many things, especially in the first few pages which get labeled as scummy, but when you think about it a bit further, there is no reason for scum to do those supposedly scummy things; they don't get any benefit out of it.

If you and Lemming were scum, I really don't see what you would gain by doing whatever you did. I am not saying you are not scum; what I am saying is that I won't label both of you as scum because of that interaction alone.

[Sir Tornado]

Unvote

Vote: Shanba

You are agreeing too much with me. Plus, I don't like the way you let me off for crap reasoning to justify my vote for YB.

[Sir Tornado]

I clearly stated that it was

not

random when I voted YB.

[Sir Tornado]

EmpTyger: It is not my fault that others started building up the YB wagon. I feel odd that you call me out for not giving reasoning for YB vote sooner, and then ignoring my reason altogether (do you find my reason for voting YB scummy?)

Also, I see that YB is lurking more than I was. You haven't called him out for lurking either. May I ask why?

unvote

Vote YogurtBandit

FOS: Shanba

[Sir Tornado]

Simenon: Why are always voting for the same person I am voting?

Unvote

Vote Simenon

Go ahead... vote for yourself :p

[Sir Tornado]

Any reason why I shouldn't trust your vote record?

Yes. I hate when people agree with me all the time. It makes me think they are trying to make some sort of connection with me, and usually only scum do that sort of thing. That sort of play by scum was precisely the reason why the scum won the last F and E.

[Sir Tornado]

Vote: YB

to put him back on -1.

This was my wagon. I want to be on it if YB gets lynched.

[Sir Tornado]

Mod Edit: Vote Count

YogurtBandit[4](Simenon, Samruc, Lemming1607, Sir Tornado)
Lemming1607[2](Khelvaster, Shanba)
Jex[1](Per)
Crub[1](Jex)
Khelvaster[1](EmpTyger)


Not Voting[2](YogurtBandit, Crub)

I meant

Unvote

,

Vote YB

[Sir Tornado]

Sir T is actually advocating a YB lynch on Page 3 – wow. Because of previous games he has played with him. I would rather wait and see what YB has to say in this game first, or have him replaced.

My case against YB would drop if he gets replaced, so I would love a replacement for YB.

The problem with YB, as I am sure you will notice in this game, if he indeed posts, is that he really doesn't say anything at all. He actively lurks so much that it is hard to say whether he is scum or not. I'd rather lynch off people like that early on rather than let them survive till endgame and make a mis lynch (he voted me, a claimed cop, in a newbie I recently played with him at LyLo allowing the scum to quick lynch me)

So, a YB lynch is a policy lynch as far as I am concerned.

[Sir Tornado]

I do not agree with policy lynches. Also, wth is the point in unvoting him if you're just going to revote him later?

To show you (and everyone else including Simeon) that I find people agreeing with me so early in the game as suspicious.

The logic I use for playing is much different than what most people use, and it borders on being scummy. The scum tend to subconsciously find my logic good for them D1, like this YB wagon. For example, if YB turns up town, you can be sure that atleast 2 people on his wagon (excluding me) are scum.

Same goes for Crub, who at this point looks scummy to me for "empathising" with me.

My ideas and method of playing tends to be a bit radical and unorthodox. It is scummy to agree with it without any argument.

[Sir Tornado]

When you vote for the person I vote, you are agreeing with me on the fact that the person we are both voting is scummy.

[Sir Tornado]

So, you don't think the person you are voting for is scum? If that is the case then why are you voting for that person?

[Sir Tornado]

Unvote

[Sir Tornado]

Has anyone played with Simenon before? Is this how he normally plays?

[Sir Tornado]

Crub = scum.

And, he tried to scum link me early on in the game in his opinion about YB bandwagon. Jex seems to do more or less the same thing in post 157.

[Sir Tornado]

Oh yeah, and

Vote: Crub

[Sir Tornado]

There is a small problem with your case. You have to turn up town first, which I don't think you will. Your post 162 reeks of scuminess.

[Sir Tornado]

Unvote

I somehow missed the Jex and CO votes on Crub.

Why are you voting Crub?

[Sir Tornado]

rub, in your 164, you say "Scum tells are scum tells" with regards to posts by Simenon. May I ask you where exactly did you find scum tells in Sim's play?

[Sir Tornado]

Mod Edit: Vote Count

Crub[4](Jex, ChaosOmega, Simenon, Sammich)
Simenon[2](Crub, Lemming1607)
Sir Tornado[1](Shanba)
Lemming1607[1](Per)


Not Voting[3](AlSleet, Samruc, Sir Tornado)

I'll explain my reasoning tomorrow.

FYI: Sim never said he agrees with other people. Check again.

[Sir Tornado]

Simenon... is your post 176 suggesting some sort of "too scummy to be scum" argument?

[Sir Tornado]

Bah, I seem to be lurking a lot in this game... should post more. Rereading now.

[Sir Tornado]

Sammich: Masons should be outed ONLY if the masons are certain they have at least 2 scum, and that too only one should claim at all, keeping the other two secret. Outing masons at this point makes absolutely no sense at all.

[Sir Tornado]

I died? heh, I was actually thinking of making a big post here right now on who I think was scummy before I saw it...

Well, here's the customary: Go town!

[Sir Tornado]

Did the mafia kill me because they thought I was a mason?

[Sir Tornado]

I thought that is the key to play this setup. Pretend that you are a mason, unless you are a real mason. I did the same thing when I was scum in the last F & E to such an extent that one of the two confirmed masons fake claimed me as their third partner.