Mini 482: Shrek Mafia - Game Over

[Mirth]

No, I fail to understand how a bandwagon clears someone of being scum. An easy lynch on an anti-town player is just as possible. I'm not particularly suspicious of DR, but I most decidedly don't like your certainty about him. What is your hunch based on exactly? Please elaborate?

[Oman]

activity surge FTW

I shall post here nowish.

[Oman]

Begins D2ish

Unvote Pug

he answered me.

Faerielord posts a horrible PBPA that says pretty much nothing at all.

In reality, you voted Grek, as you did nothing to stop his death.

I reject this theory that not voting for someone to overtake the wagon means that Mirth is responsible for the Grek lynch. I'd say the people on him are more responsible (even then 2 votes at deadline doesn't give us much).

Not acting is a similar choice to acting.

Yes, but Acting A is not simillar to not acting B when the two are mutually exclusive, Action A prevents Action B, but does not cause the inverse of Action B. I.e. Voting InHim prevents Voting someone who will overtake Grek, voting InHim does not cause Grek's lynch.

I don't like any of these votees, but since one of them is going to die, I'm going to vote the scummiest from the set.

Ouch, I heavily disagree with this. You don't vote the scummiest of A or B, you vote for who you think is scummiest. Nothing should control a pro-town vote.

But there is no reason not to vote.

This is true however.

If I look into Goldfish and decide that nothing she has said really bothers me, then problem solved.

Well? Has anything she's said bothered you?

Anyway, this is a pointless argument by both sides.

No its not. You're just not happy that Zindaras put up a defence and attacked you.

No, speculating isn't definate, but not speculating might miss some things too.

I agree with this. Speculation is okay, but if we start fishing I'm calling a stop to it.

Note my vote now.

I, too, am suprised that you didn't vote yesterday, but first thing today. You lose townie brownies.

If you want to try to destroy my playstyle, please do this after I've posted my conclusions. Thanks.

I've been waiting for these for a long time. More postnow plz.

and with Goldfish, everybody keeps saying that's her playstyle.

And you accepted this? Sad.

but I'm not going to vote for null tells.

Sounds like you're not going to vote at all, besides some half-baked HC vote. I'm damn upset that you're getting scummier as we go.

I was asking what you thought of Pug

saying

he protected me

You beleive he didn't really?

Why didn't you attack Goldfish though?<snip>as you're trying to cast suspicion on me for even looking at Goldfish.

Zind and Goldfish?

Mexal's 423 points out some...just wow stuff.

perhaps the reason there aren't any comments on Goldfish, because, apart from early posts about Ben and Inhim, the rest of Goldfish's not very numerous posts, are in response to people being suspicious of her and rather OMGUSy in a not particularly informative way.

Okay, good idea, BUT - Zindaras should be mentioning Goldfish's OMGUS and lack of post. They also shared suspect lists, etc. Zindaras could've/should've at least looked at Goldfish's OMGUS.

Simple; I do not believe that he protected Mirth. I believe that he targeted Jex last night.

This is s pretty heavy accusation. You seem pretty sure too? Any reason?

Oh, Zindaras just pointed out Mexal is pretty low in the Goldfish department to. Although, to be fair, Mexal came in way after Zindaras.

HAI Glork

Also, Adam/Fae is mostly hunch-based.

Yeah well I'm not going to

probably accept that Glork, Ben/Riki, and probably Adam/Faerie are town and move on with your life.

Based on Glork's hunch, sorry.

Glork, I disagree with your lack of desire to post your reasons. While I accept you do post little bits (Ben's wagon being full of gas etc. ) I don't like seeing people get away with that. At worst, regardless town or scum, I want to learn as much as possible and this is a great way for me to learn (hearing your tells either way).

I wanna put a

MAJORFOS: Zindaras and Goldfish

and a

Minor Fos on Mirth

For being slightly off D2.

[Glork]

No, I fail to understand how a bandwagon clears someone of being scum. An easy lynch on an anti-town player is just as possible. I'm not particularly suspicious of DR, but I most decidedly don't like your certainty about him. What is your hunch based on exactly? Please elaborate?

I shall take you under my wing and teach you The Way.

[Mirth]

Note my vote now.

I, too, am suprised that you didn't vote yesterday, but first thing today. You lose townie brownies.

There wasn't any point in voting for him yesterday. Didn't become suspicious of him until very close to deadline, and my vote wouldn't have changed anything at that point. Also keep your brownies, I have some chocolate cake left over.

and with Goldfish, everybody keeps saying that's her playstyle.

And you accepted this? Sad.

I accept that it seems to be Goldfish's playstyle. I don't particularly like it, and I'd really like to hear something from her that isn't an OMGUS reaction to someone calling her out on something, but I don't think annoying playstyle is necessarily a scum tell. I still don't have much of an opinion on her. Note all the posts where I'm asking her to say something, anything. My point isn't that she's not scum, but that I don't think there's enough evidence to be certain about her yet.

but I'm not going to vote for null tells.

Sounds like you're not going to vote at all, besides some half-baked HC vote. I'm damn upset that you're getting scummier as we go.

I think my vote on Haschel is justified for the time being. I'd like to hear a better explanation of why he was so sure of Grek's alignment because his previous posts don't satisfy me in the area. I read over them and don't see And why be upset that I'm getting scummier in your opinion? You suspecting me, whether or not it's justified suspicion, generate more conversation than posts stating you're in agreement with something I've said. Personally, I'm happy, I might get a decent argument out of you. I like arguments.

I was asking what you thought of Pug

saying

he protected me

You beleive he didn't really?

Maybe. I don't see any gain in protecting me. I'm not the most squeaky-clean person here. Unless I'm mistaken, scum want to kill powerroles and the most squeaky-clean townies. So the most logical, to me, night choices, would have been Pug or Jex (as Jex really didn't do anything worthy of suspicion yesterday). Now then, I'm assuming Pug, if Pug is the doctor, can't protect himself. So why choose to protect me over Jex, who more people seemed to assume was town? It seems like a waste of a protection, because it would have been eaiser for the mafia, given a choice between killing me and Jex, to pounce on me because I have an argumentative playstyle and try to lynch me, than Jex, who wasn't sparking any scumdars, if I recall correctly. Therefore I think it was an illogical choice (assuming that Pug is actually a doctor), and I'd like Pug to explain it.

Actually, in the same vein of discussion, I'm reluctant to discount Pug as a doctor, because, if Pug was scum, it would have been better to claim attempting to protect Jex (since Jex was the most squeaky-clean person here), as there is speculation about Pug's effectiveness. (Since Merlin wasn't the most competent of characters in the movie). That way, if Pug was lying, he could lie that his role was that of a semi-effective doctor, which, I think, would have been better to his cause than claiming to protect me. And here, I'd like to say, before I surely get accused of it, that I'm not giving away strategy, because, if anybody were to use this gambit now, it would come under suspicion for having already been mentioned. (I got crap in Mini 487 for spouting strategy. I just died in that.) Or, if Pug didn't feel like protecting Jex, why not protect Nox/you again? If Pug is the doctor and prevented the night one kill, that would have given Pug an innate confirmation of Nox/Your's innocence, no? So that, too, would have made more sense as a protection target.

Zindaras should be mentioning Goldfish's OMGUS and lack of post. They also shared suspect lists, etc. Zindaras could've/should've at least looked at Goldfish's OMGUS.

Agreed, but I don't think not mentioning it automatically makes them partners as Mexal seems to suggest.

At Glork: I'd prefer if you just answered the questions instead, thank you.

[DeliciousGoldfish]

So I am currently awaiting an answer from the Mod about a HUGE question...

I won't post until I've received an answer..... So I apologize for not posting rebuttal to these accusations of scumminess.

[Zindaras]

Gotta go home now, more later.

As is clear from my finished analysis, I didn't get any farther than Haschel's PbPA of me on Page 10, when she hadn't had any pressure on her yet. So everyone going all "WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT GOLDY'S OMGUS?", you're flat-out wrong. I didn't ignore Goldy, I just didn't get there yet.

I have limited time, so while I'd love to respond to the other points, I've got to go now.

[Oman]

if Pug was scum, it would have been better to claim attempting to protect Jex (since Jex was the most squeaky-clean person here), as there is speculation about Pug's effectiveness. (Since Merlin wasn't the most competent of characters in the movie).

I disagree. I feel less hesitation is lynching a non -effective doctor than an effective one. Claiming a usefull role is one of the reasons pug survived.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Vote Count

Pug89 (1): Haschel Cedricson
Zindaras (1): Mexal
Haschel Cedricson (1): Mirth
Oman (1): Glork

6 to lynch

[DeliciousGoldfish]

Why didn't the scum kill Pug? He claimed healer so it doesn't make sense not to kill him unless of course they feel like they can get him lynched pretty easily today. Uh oh, WIFOM!

I think that is the case, especially combined with the fact I was one of the votes on Grek. Why waste a NK on someone you can get lynched the day?

Now. About the SK. I can clearly see one here. And pugdoc blocked it.

So my question to the claimed doc is: Who did you protect?

I protected Mirth.
I don't think it's likely there's a SK because there were no kills at all N1. It's a possibility, but it seems unlikely both kills would have been blocked N1.

So since I was not roleblocked last night, someone would have protected InHimshallIbe since he, or he as in Glork, is still in this game. Or Glork has abilities that fiend against NKs.

That's right y'all, I am town-aligned Princess Fiona, the vigilante with super cool martial arts moves So now, either I get NKed tonight by the mafia or they keep me around in hopes I vigkill a townie.

I just want to know who decided it was some great idea to protect InHimshallIbe last night.

I really wish we at least had a probable list of players..... or at least "roles" and powers.

[Oman]

Firstly...WHAT! You killed a lurker with vig power. Okay thats fine but....

1) Does this mean pug is lying or does glork have NK immune? (I suggest Glork doesn't claim right now, this is enough)

2) Is Goldfish a 1-shot or not?

3) Is goldfish Vig or SK?

4) Would Goldfish have known if she was RBed? Is it possible it occured without her knowing? (I've never been RBed so I don't know if you get a PM or what).

[FaerieLord]

Firth of all, Faerielord, your post analysis really isn't particularly helpful. I especially appreciate how you admit to skipping posts too. Is there are reason for all the sarcasm sans analysis or did you just not take your happy pills this morning?

And didn't I say that? I said I didn't want to post it because it was just my brainstorm. And I skipped writing about the post, not reading them. I read every post thank you very much. Also, the analysis is there. It might be that maybe you didn't find it?

You think that the information from a complete WIFOM train of thought, based on motivations we don't know is more relevant than the information of 15 pages of thread ending in a three-way tie?

:goodposting:

I'm going to read the bandwagon again. It was troublesome that at deadline a person who was losing suspicion from himself died.

Also, @mexal. No DG because there was little DG in the thread

[Oman]

I'd like to see a little REAL content from Faerie.

[DeliciousGoldfish]

The Mod is to PM a player when they are roleblocked. I did indeed PM the Mod for this game and was informed that had I been roleblocked I would know about it.

The good part about my claim is that I have claimed the role with Princess Fiona and her martial arts skill and town aligned. A counter-claim right now would mean I might die, but they die the next day and it's a 1 for a 1 which.... is just a lame way to get a game moving. AND it leaves one less player for you guys to "worry" about... well... if you choose to believe me =)

I REALLY would like to hear a lot more about his block of Mirth. Seriously... Why?

I was going with a Lynch a Lurker basis, with his sketchy play in the beginning and refusal to show up and answer the many questions post at him.... and difficult questions too.

He was acting scummily in the beginning. And I go back to my scenario about the odds going towards the players even if they lynch incorrectly the first day. I was willing to risk InHim 1) because of his scummy play, he could become scum and 2) because he disappeared, tapered off, whichever... He was of no use and an extra lynch would set the town up for better odds in the morning.

And I am definitely in agreeance that NO MORE CLAIMS should come out right now. I am already in danger of an NK....

Unless we have two healers like this whole Pug/Mirth/InHim controversy. But my bet is Pug is lying.

My role out isn't too big of a deal... but another role would be a bad idea.

[Haschel Cedricson]

This is s pretty heavy accusation. You seem pretty sure too? Any reason?

Yes.

Delicious Goldfish is a vig

It looks like we have two scum caught right here, barring an explanation from Glork.

As for the Mexal/Zindaras debate, I actually think that both of them are town.

If I had to bet right now, I would say that the scum team consists of Pug89, Glork, and either FaerieLord or Mirth.

[Mexal]

The Mod is to PM a player when they are roleblocked. I did indeed PM the Mod for this game and was informed that had I been roleblocked I would know about it.

The good part about my claim is that I have claimed the role with Princess Fiona and her martial arts skill and town aligned. A counter-claim right now would mean I might die, but they die the next day and it's a 1 for a 1 which.... is just a lame way to get a game moving. AND it leaves one less player for you guys to "worry" about... well... if you choose to believe me =)

I REALLY would like to hear a lot more about his block of Mirth. Seriously... Why?

I was going with a Lynch a Lurker basis, with his sketchy play in the beginning and refusal to show up and answer the many questions post at him.... and difficult questions too.

He was acting scummily in the beginning. And I go back to my scenario about the odds going towards the players even if they lynch incorrectly the first day. I was willing to risk InHim 1) because of his scummy play, he could become scum and 2) because he disappeared, tapered off, whichever... He was of no use and an extra lynch would set the town up for better odds in the morning.

And I am definitely in agreeance that NO MORE CLAIMS should come out right now. I am already in danger of an NK....

Unless we have two healers like this whole Pug/Mirth/InHim controversy. But my bet is Pug is lying.

My role out isn't too big of a deal... but another role would be a bad idea.

So let me get this straight.

You are claiming vig, and you're claiming that you tried to kill inHim, a guy who hasn't posted in 3 weeks. You're also claiming that if you were role blocked, you would have known about it, but since you got no PM, you weren't role blocked?

I'm so confused.

[Zindaras]

Sneaking a post in while I should be working:

This is a really weird claim. I'm not sure why Goldy even claimed to begin with.

[Mirth]

Ah, just woke up, this is an interesting development. Not too sure what to make of it.

Couple questions about it:

The good part about my claim is that I have claimed the role with Princess Fiona and her martial arts skill and town aligned. A counter-claim right now would mean I might die, but they die the next day and it's a 1 for a 1 which.... is just a lame way to get a game moving. AND it leaves one less player for you guys to "worry" about... well... if you choose to believe me =)

I don't like the way this sounds. Fiona doesn't seem like the obvious choice for a vig, but I'm going to take your claim as true for the moment being. So some questions for you based on that:

1) Who, if anyone, did you attack night 1?
2) Why claim now and expose yourself to the mafia instead of waiting a bit and seeing what else happens? (My train of thought on this one: If Pug isn't lying about being the doctor, before your claim,if Pug were to survive this day, he would have been the best NK choice tonight, just in case. You just gave yourself away and possibly drew out our informartion about Pug. This is not a value judgement of whether I think this is good or bad, because it might give us a lot more information depending on how Glork acts, I'm just curious as to why.)

3. Why ask me specifically? Is it because I keep asking you to talk and stuff?
4. What is your opinion of the most likely scenerio here?

Since I'm asking you that, I might as well throw out what I think the possibilities are:
1. Glork has a NK-immune role.
2. Your status as Vig might be limited. (i.e. maybe you're a 50% vig or something)
3. Someone protected Glork.
3a. Pug is the doctor and lied about protecting me, and thus protected Glork (double why? why Glork and why lie?)
3b. We have another doctor who protected Glork. (why?)
3c. Glork is mafia and the mafia have their own doctor who protected Glork. (which would really suck.)
4. Someone has one of those annoying swapper roles, and possibly flipped Jex's night event with Glork's night event. (as this isn't a rollblock per say, you might not have gotten informed.)

Now then, I think that covers pretty much all of them. Which leaves two more things:

Goldfish, can you paraphrase what your role conditions are in the pm? So that we could get a better idea of efficacy?

Pug, I'd really really really like to hear from you right now.

[Oman]

3. Why ask me specifically? Is it because I keep asking you to talk and stuff?

Actually its refering to you, but asking Pug. Its Pugs "protect" of you that they want to hear more about.

My thoughts bolded:

1. Glork has a NK-immune role.

Possible

2. Your status as Vig might be limited. (i.e. maybe you're a 50% vig or something)

I doubt this highly, its not an extremely likely occurance in a mini. It could be true, however

3. Someone protected Glork.

The most likely so far

3a. Pug is the doctor and lied about protecting me, and thus protected Glork (double why? why Glork and why lie?)

This is a very interesting scenario. Pug has no reason to lie if he's town

3b. We have another doctor who protected Glork. (why?)

Protecting InHim/Glork is certainly an interesting move. I might take a look at who thought he was almost definatly town

3c. Glork is mafia and the mafia have their own doctor who protected Glork. (which would really suck.)

Another interesting possibility. Is it possible this mafia doctor protected a town player?

4. Someone has one of those annoying swapper roles, and possibly flipped Jex's night event with Glork's night event. (as this isn't a rollblock per say, you might not have gotten informed.)

Hmm...I'm gonna put this one very high on the list. Its almost a shrek role (Shrek 1 he transports Fiona). I personally feel this fits Merlin better than anyone else (bodyswap) So maybe Pug was lieing about that too. But who would protect InHim/want Jex killed?

I too want to hear more of Pug.

Glork are you NK immune? I thought this over and I think it benefits town above if not as much as scum. Basically they get nothing out of it except don't try to kill him, but they'll be trying to WIFOM the doc anyway. It would also be helpful to prevent any doc(s) from protecting him unneccasarily, as well as helping us get our head around this situation.

I am not liking a pug/Goldfish scumpair now. If they were they could have "chosen" the same target for their fakeclaim, which would mean that they would almost confirm eachother.

[Mirth]

3. Why ask me specifically? Is it because I keep asking you to talk and stuff?

Actually its refering to you, but asking Pug. Its Pugs "protect" of you that they want to hear more about.

Ah, I totally misread that just now. I thought the "of" was a "from" Haven't had my morning tea yet. I'm a zombie before I have my tea and prone to fits of dyslexia. I should go remedy that now.

As to the rests of your post: I don't see any reason why a scum doctor would protect a protown player. I don't have that one very high on my list of possibilities though, because in a game like this, it would seem kind of unfair. (Same for the swapper one, but anything is possible.)

I also don't think, if we have a swapper, that it would be a matter of protecting InHim/killing Jex, but swapping InHim (who wasn't the most squeky-clean person yesterday) with Jex (who was), thereby possibly protecting Jex from a mafia NK. I don't, however, think we have a swapper in this game, as they're really bloody annoying and likely to cause more harm than good.

As to scum, well, I think at least one person on the Nox bandwagon page 1 was scum by means of probability alone. So that's Mexal/camisade, Goldfish, or Glork/InHim (since both Jex and Glork are dead.)

What I think of Goldfish, well, fake-claiming Fiona would be a really stupid move, since she was a main character and probably in this game. I don't immeadiatly associate the role with Vig though, so either the Mod has an evil sense of humor or something or it is a fake claim...I'm inclined to belive it for the moment.

As to the other two, well, InHim was inactive and Glork is kind of getting on my nerves with his post style, but there's nowhere near enough talking from either of them to give me an opinion one was or the other. Mexal has some good posts, but that doesn't clear him of anything.

[Mexal]

I don't like the claim. What's the point of it? She wasn't under any pressure and she's just claiming she tried to vig someone and failed. It's worthless. I don't get it and I don't like it.

[Glork]

No, I am not NK-immune. And since I apparently was targeted for vigging, I feel obliged to claim. I am

Puss-In-Boots

, masons with Donkey/Dead-Rikimaru. (That's the other reason I

know

that Ben/Riki isn't scum.)



It's ridiculous to target a lurker/inactive for vigging simply because they are likely to be replaced (as inHim was) by an active player (such as yours truly). Was there even a case against inHim aside from his lurking? I saw at the start of day that Zindie mentioned being suspicious of the people who lynched Grak, but I felt that this was terribly misleading, as when I read, there was a substantial wagon on Grak, and inHim went active back in

AUGUST

. To pin the mislynch on inHim seemed ridiculous, which is also why I suspected Zindie coming into today.

[Glork]

By the way, I find it at least as likely that Goldfish was

roleblocked

. I have no idea why Goldfish assumed that I was

protected

. That seems a bit strange to me. Mind explainig, Goldfish?

[Mirth]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, what was the point in that Glork? Really? We only asked if you had nightkill protection, not who you were. Not only did you just out yourself (assuming you're not lying), but you outed DR as well. I call this a not very smart move and would like to know what in the name of the holy trinity of Darwin, Lamarck, and Mendel possessed you to do it? (as you can possibly tell, I am annoyed. When I am annoyed, my swearing is...interesting...)

DR, how do you feel about all this?

Also, Glork, this doesn't explain your reason for not suspecting Adam/Faerie.

[Oman]

Swappers are hilarious when you swap the doc for the godfather, and the godfather gets NK by scum! They're a great role, but deadly this early and in a mini as NKs are a big part of scumhunting.

(since both Jex and Glork are dead.)

You need more tea

I personally assosciate Fiona with an SK over vig. Pretty much because Fiona kicks everyone, regardless, and in the first movie she is pretty violent to the goodies Regardless, I doubt the town are all good characters and the scum all bad, its too obvious and leaves it open to a massclaim town win. Of course, could be a fakeclaim either name and/or role.

Goldfish is still the scummiest to me, claiming whilst not under pressure, the D1 OMGUS, its all a bit too much.

In fact why haven't I yet

Vote Goldfish

'Bout time I did.