Mini 482: Shrek Mafia - Game Over

[Mexal]

I'm so confused.

[Mexal]

So just out of curiousity, who hasn't claimed? Me, Oman and Haschel?

[Oman]

Wait: I have an idea.

We get role on lynch, but not on NK, right? I believe beyond all doubt 1 of the three claimed docs, and I believe another (that hasn't claimed) because of they way they're playing (very doc).

That leaves 2 unconfirmed docs out of 4 in my mind.

I think the lynch today is out of A) Pug B) Zindaras or C) Goldfish.

I believe Goldfish is a killrole. Whether SK or vig or scum is different. I can believe SK or vig before I can believe scum.

Pug is the shiftiest so far. And in my mind the best lynch.

Zindaras, who did you protect last night? Zindaras is another of the unconfirmed docs, and that puts her second to Pug in my mind.

Glork and DR are right out, as is Mirth. I'm really not happy Mirth has taken to quoting role PMs, really not happy, even just on principle.

My vote stands.

[Mexal]

Wait: I have an idea.

We get role on lynch, but not on NK, right? I believe beyond all doubt 1 of the three claimed docs, and I believe another (that hasn't claimed) because of they way they're playing (very doc).

That leaves 2 unconfirmed docs out of 4 in my mind.

I think the lynch today is out of A) Pug B) Zindaras or C) Goldfish.

I believe Goldfish is a killrole. Whether SK or vig or scum is different. I can believe SK or vig before I can believe scum.

Pug is the shiftiest so far. And in my mind the best lynch.

Zindaras, who did you protect last night? Zindaras is another of the unconfirmed docs, and that puts her second to Pug in my mind.

Glork and DR are right out, as is Mirth. I'm really not happy Mirth has taken to quoting role PMs, really not happy, even just on principle.

My vote stands.

At this point, does it matter if you out someone? There are only 4 people by my count that hasn't claimed, you and I being 2 of them. That leaves only two people left. So, what exactly does it matter?

I said 3 people earlier but I went back to the list and forgot Faerielord.

So of your potential docs, the only people it could be would be Faerielord or Haschel. It's not hard to narrow it down some.

[Mirth]

Zindaras: ...I am so confused...are you counter-claiming me? Also, who did you protect the first night?

If this is a doc-game, then I'm going to venture a guess that Grek was also a doctor since there seems to be a royal family theme going on here if Zindaras isn't making an oppurtunist claim.

Glork and DR are right out, as is Mirth. I'm really not happy Mirth has taken to quoting role PMs, really not happy, even just on principle.

I didn't quote my role PM. I can assure you that my role PM did not include any of my pre-tea gibberish.

I also still don't understand why you're so anti-Goldfish here.

[Zindaras]

I'm still sneaking in my posts while I should be working, but I've managed to finish pretty much everything by now. I should be able to post more expansively this evening.

Zindaras: ...I am so confused...are you counter-claiming me?

No. If anything, I'm doing it to lend credibility to your claim. With quotes like this:

I can not see three docs in this game.

I think it was a good play to claim at this point.

Also, who did you protect the first night?

Oh, yes, sorry. 007flash failed to send in a target.

Impressive, isn't it? Failing to send in a target on Night 0?

[Oman]

I also still don't understand why you're so anti-Goldfish here.

OMGUS, and that strange earlier vig claim, Goldfish looks the second worse to me.

I don't really want to jump on these guys, as I feel they're both very protown, but could Glork and Riki be taking a gambit on this mason thing?

No, I don't think so.

I prefer lynching pug to lynching Goldfish, because pugs death will give us some insight into the other docs. I can see maybe 3 docs with 2-3 of them being town (not going to discount a scumdoc). Do we want to finish this massclaim or what? The only role I'm not sure of is Mexal's.

[Mirth]

I'm going to say that I have no opinion on finishing mass-claiming. I'm not a fan of claiming, but since I felt compelled to do it myself, I'm of the opinion that the non-claimed people should decide at their own descretion.

Zindaras, just one more question for you: what made you choose DR?

And now I have to get going. (This is another one of my days on less than 4 hours of sleep, so lets hope that my liquor-spiked breakfast tea holds up until I get back home.)

[Mexal]

I also still don't understand why you're so anti-Goldfish here.

OMGUS, and that strange earlier vig claim, Goldfish looks the second worse to me.

I don't really want to jump on these guys, as I feel they're both very protown, but could Glork and Riki be taking a gambit on this mason thing?

No, I don't think so.

I prefer lynching pug to lynching Goldfish, because pugs death will give us some insight into the other docs. I can see maybe 3 docs with 2-3 of them being town (not going to discount a scumdoc). Do we want to finish this massclaim or what? The only role I'm not sure of is Mexal's.

I don't know if there is a benefit for me to claim now. I'm not a doc so it's not like I can contest any of those other claims. If people really want me to claim, I will, but at this time, I don't think it's the right move.

[Pug89]

I don't have much time right now and there's a lot I need to read through but something I saw:

especially if Pug is lying which it seems he was

Why does it seem like I'm lying? Just because it appears there is more than one doctor doesn't mean I am lying. It does mean that Nox/Oman wasn't necessarily targeted N0 so I'm less sure he is town.

[Haschel Cedricson]

So of your potential docs, the only people it could be would be Faerielord or Haschel. It's not hard to narrow it down some.

Yeah, with this quote, FaerieLord now knows that I'm the other doc, so I'm just going to claim to the rest of you.

I am Prince Shrek, doctor. I protected Jex on Night 1 and Oman on Night 2.

Now we're in a tricky situation here; Pug, Mirth, Zindy, and myself have all claimed doc. Out of these four, I think that Pug is the most suspicious because simply because he claimed first, and doctor is a common role for scum to claim.

[Mexal]

Alright, with so many doctors, I should claim as well. The reason being, I don't want to get NKed because I refused to claim and someone thought my role was worth hiding. With all these docs, I'm sure at least one of them can protect me.

Anyway, I am Pinocchio, and I am the cop. Camisade investigated inHim N1 which is why I believed Glork and refused to lynch him D1. I investigated Haschel N2 and he is town therefore I believe his claim.

[Mirth]

Mmm homemade samosas ^____^ ~Mirth is happy. Mirth loves the Indian grocery across the street.~

Glork, I'd like to hear what you think of all this.

Hmmm... Interesting...Shrek as a Doctor and Fiona as a Vigilante...I'll have to wonder about that one.

Followin question to Zindaras and Haschel (since I already gave my logic): what were your thoughts when Pug claimed?

Also, claims so far, in order of being made:

Pug -- Merlin -- Doctor
Goldfish -- Fiona -- Vigilante
Glork -- Puss in Boots -- Mason
DR -- Donkey -- Mason
Me -- King Harold -- Doctor
Zindaras -- Queen Lillian -- Doctor
Haschel -- Shrek -- Doctor

Now then, if at least two of the doctor claims are real, then we don't know who the night 1 target was. Which means that Glork and DR might not actually be cleared as town. Gosh darn it.

This leaves 3 people not claimed and 2 dead townies whose roles we don't actually know. I still think Merlin fits the theme the least, but it's not a guarentee. I would also venture the following guess: I'm going to assume the bad guy is probably Prince Charming (baring the Mod playing with our heads more than he already is.)

[Mexal]

Now then, if at least two of the doctor claims are real, then we don't know who the night 1 target was. Which means that Glork and DR might not actually be cleared as town. Gosh darn it.

I am clearing Glork and DR. Glork is town and by extension, that makes DR town.

[Mirth]

Hmm I seem to have missed Mexals post. Oh well. Interesting claim. Mexal, why did you investigate Haschel and not Pug?

[Mexal]

Hmm I seem to have missed Mexals post. Oh well. Interesting claim. Mexal, why did you investigate Haschel and not Pug?

Because no one countered him day 1. I was going to leave the claim. I didn't expect there to be 3 other doc claims. I didn't want to waste my investigation on a non countered doc. I investigated Haschel for three reasons. 1. There were times he made long posts that really lead to no conclusions and that made me a little suspicious. 2. I found you pro-town and you found him pretty suspicious. 3. There were other times his posts were quite good and I wanted to know which side he was on so I knew which way to read the posts.

[Mirth]

Hmmm...sounds reasonable. I'm going to need to do a total reread though. I'm just really exhausted right now and owe a partial reread to the currently deadlined newbie game I'm in, so it might be a while before I can reread this one.

Questions thrown out at random players:
FaerieLord: what are you thoughts about the mass claiming?
Goldfish: I'd like to get your thoughts also.
Pug: Do you think any or all of Haschel, Zindaras, or myself are lying?

Mod: are you sitting back and laughing at us?

Oman: Was Haschel who you thought the other doctor was? If so, what do you think gave it away?

[Mirth]

Oh, and my last question that I forgot: Haschel, how were you so sure of Grek's innocence yesterday?

[FaerieLord]

@zindy. haha! pug, name claim please. i think we might be on to something here, sir king, mrs queen and dear prince

@all. if everyone agrees, I'll claim. but i don't see why i should now. i'm not a doc though

@oman. i'll tell you what we'll do about this. dg, from now on, don't kill another person unless we say so. ok? That way an sk would misobey to win wouldn't he now? And trust me, it'll work

@Mass claim. If townies agree, I'm all for it. Though I'm still SNIFFING! into the doc affair

Now first of all, I think the best bet is to direct everyone in places. Doctors, all of you protect each other circle wise for now, that way we can see if there is a whole in the loop. IE: Pug proc Mirth, Mirth proc Hasch, Hasch Proc Zindy, Zindy proc Pug.

Meanwhile, Metal can investigate whom he finds suspicious from this circle of logic.

DG should absolutely no kill this night as it'll fuck up or thoughts and most prob put as at a worse position.

I'll do my stuff (I'm not vanilla)

Masons talk to each other

Mafia go to hell.

How does that sound?

Also, now the only pRoblem we have is a day Kill. and with all these claims it would seem like either me or dg are the only possible lynches in this plan, so I Think I should Claim soon...

[Mirth]

Bad plan, Faerie. Mexal probably dies in it. Better to lose a doc than the cop (since we might have 4 of them).

Pug already did name claim. He claimed Merlin, the nutty wizard/Artie's ex-teacher.

Since Faerie claimed Not!Doc, I'm going to do something very uncharacteristic and demand claims from both Faerie and Oman. I will only explain why after they claim. I have a plan. I don't mind if Faerie waits for other peoples input on a claim, but I *demand* a claim for Oman.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Oh, and my last question that I forgot: Haschel, how were you so sure of Grek's innocence yesterday?

Basically, everything he said pointed to misguided town instead of scum. His plan, although inherently flawed, was consistant with itself, and I felt that scum under as much pressure as he was would have cracked at some point, which Grek never did.

Even after the trap-debate, Grek's posts made sense from a town standpoint.

[Glork]

Glork, I'd like to hear what you think of all this.

I'm glad you value my input... but I'm trying to sort through this mess as much as anybody else.

First of all, I find it deliciously ironic that I stated how few games tend to have multiple Doctors, and this just so happens to be a game that revolves around having multiple Doctors.

I believe that the Cop and the Vigilante are both legit. Any scums who have fake-claimed so far will almost certainly be among the "Doctor" group. I still believe that Goldfish's claim, while ill-advised, was probably intended as she meant. There is zero reason to believe that she would out herself as a killing role unless she were protown. Furthermore, there is credibility to her claim based on the fact that she claimed to try to kill me

well before

she could have known whether or not

Based on order of claims, the second claimed Doctor (Mirth) is almost certainly legit. Based on Herschel's reaction to Pug's claim, his vote for Pug today, etc., I am willing to believe for now that he is more likely than Zindaras/Pug to be a Doctor.

Pug could have easily been scum fake-claiming to try to draw out "the" real Doctor.
Zindaras could very easily be scum who recognized the theme (and may even have guessed HerschelDoc as well) and joined the Doc-Claiming wagon. Neither of these two players are in any way cleared based on claim.

Looking at rolenames will probably not help us at all. KScope almost certainly has provided rolenames for the scums to claim, and I wouldn't discount the possibility of ShrekDoc and FionaVig.

Zindaras:

Why did you protect Riki last night?

FaerieLord and Oman:

Please claim as soon as possible.

Goldfish:

I agree with FaerieLord's assertion that you are not to kill unless we as a collective demand it. And even then, you are to kill exactly who we tell you to kill. Though I find it likely that you're a Vig, I don't want any loose cannons screwing around with our carefully laid plans. If you deviate at all, I

WILL

push for your lynch relentlessly. Am I crystal clear on this matter? Your "Vig" ability is now effectively a "Second Lynch" for the town.


Since we are (already!) at the massclaim stage, the game will likely be won or lost based on our ability to discern who is lying and who is telling the truth. From my perspective, I would give 90% that Mirth is town, 90% that Mexal is town, and probably 75% that Herschel is town. DR and I are obviously town. That's a pretty strong basis from which to work.

The other thing a Massclaim does for us is, assuming that no protown roles lied, it negates the "No Reveal" nature of the game.

Oh, I just had a thought.
At some point, I would like to go through the game hunting for possible breadcrumbs from Jex, as she was the only player nightkilled. It would be very helpful to know what her actual specific role was. I would

strongly

suggest that the rest of you do the same. If somebody finds something in Jex's posts, please point it out to the rest of us.


Sheesh. I think that does it. This game definitely just got a *LOT* more interesting. Once all of the claims are laid out and we've assessed which ones we believe, it'll be time to set a course of action. But we'll get to that later.

[DeliciousGoldfish]

I still don't see how I am this giant target.

No one has counter-claimed being Fiona. Fiona... Well... How could she be mafia? And how could I be lying about being 'Fiona' when Fiona is one of the main characters, along with Shrek?

With that, Oman looks terribly desperate.

Pug still looks suspicous. Merlin... I don't know, I think he's a whacko doctor or mafia. I never saw Shrek 3, but seriously, what Jex wrote from wikipedia about Merlin and his tendency to have his plans backfire... I don't know what to think.

As for the people who haven't claimed (Oman whom I already addressed, and Faerie)... They look very suspicious in my eyes as most claims at this point are very valid... But only because I'm guessing the Mod used the

main

characters in the game.

[Glork]

Ugh. The WIFOM of this is terrible.

In flavored games, many mods intentionally shake up the mafiagame-alignments of players from movies. In the Princess Bride Mini, the mafia consisted of Rugen, Humperdink, and Albino, but

FEZZIK

was given as a safeclaim for the scums. The strength of that claim (nobody guessed that Fezzik would be fake or scum until it was too late) helped the mafia win that game.

I also know for a fact that, long ago on another forum, KScope modded a Harry Potter themed game in which all of the obvious/main good guys from the movie were also good guys in the game. An early massclaim broke the game open because everybody who had a weak/obscure claim was killed. I survived last, claiming my role of Snape and asserting that I was protown, but we as a mafia never stood a chance.

KScope knows full well that he must craft a setup where simply claiming a rolename will

not

cause the town to auto-win. I would strongly caution against using rolenames as a basis for dertermining town/scum.

Incidentally, I don't even remember who Artie was in the movies, and Grek died as Artie/Protown.

[Mexal]

Glork, if you call me 90% town, then you have to move Herschal to 90% town since I investigated him night 2 and he came up town. If you believe my claim, then you have to believe my claim that Herschal is town.