NY 193 : Werewolf Mania (GAME OVER- TOWN WIN)

[I Am Innocent]

vote:ika

I'm joining this wagon until I feel like killing someone else.

Thoughts on Snarky and Blackstone?

[I Am Innocent]

Not blackstone, blackstar.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: I Am Innocent

indeed you are

Chance this is scum being cheeky
VOTE: Lobster

Serious? I get this almost every game during RVS.

@Xkfyu: Yes. I also play on another site and that isn't a problem there, but on MS I did notice many players dislike being scum. Some even state it explicitly (me included; although I'm not one to opt-out of a game after it has started).

Examples please.

"what is your opinion on everyone else that is both on and off your wagon?" is such a garbage question this early into the game.

Yes, this is NOT a question you ask on a RVS wagon

Really? I found that quick wagon to be interesting. Did you have a problem with how JarJar disected those on and those who seemed to avoid it?

It doesn't worry me. Its just annoying because you're so focused on me that

you won't be paying attention to the actual scum.

He can't BE the actual scum?

Nice catch.

It doesn't worry me. Its just annoying because you're so focused on me that

you won't be paying attention to the actual scum.

He can't BE the actual scum?

I'm kind of getting that feeling from him. He mentioned that he was "tunneling me" until I proved that I'm town. There's no need to be solely fixated on one person this early in the game, so he might be thinking that he can somehow find one flawed thing that I say and use it to make the town mislynch me. Or maybe he just really is paranoid haha.

Not sure you understood JarJar's point.

**************

Through page 5

[Almost50]

@IAI: Check my most recent game for numerous examples of players stating they hate to play scum, and some explicitly suggesting they would lurk and/or sub-out.

[I Am Innocent]

Anti-town on the surface. I think the chances of him being scum are slimmer than what I previously had in mind. Why would a third party scum do that? Could he be a PR role and lying about being VT in order to lead scum away from trying to kill him? Is he trying to identify scum that might latch onto him?

I took a step back because I could see newb-town Almost50 messing his VT roleclaim up like this. It would be a very bold move as a scum-gambit (from an inexperienced player) - as it brings immediate focus/attention to his slot. Experienced scum do not actively create WIFOM on their slot to this degree this early.

What about panicked scum?

We need a wagon driven by a case based on scum-indicative behaviour - then look at the reactions/votes/arguments for and against around it.

This is the biggest pile of horse crap ever. I can't tell you how many times I've seen "a case based on scum-indicative behaviour" on town. Town are reckless, and not in the know, so their play typically comes off as scummy. Scum are in the know, and most play it safe, thus they feel townie. You want to catch scum, get a few wagons going, and later in the game, you'll have all the clues you need. Force scum to take stances, and the best way is through their vote.

Happy with my vote where it is.

The idea that ika requires pressure to be sorted is nonsensical. His alignment becomes glaringly obvious as the game goes on regardless.

Really? I find him (along with PeregrineV) to be the hardest to read on MS.

************

Just saw something else on my catchup that I need to cross reference from my phone reading earlier

[Nero Cain]

vote:ika

I'm joining this wagon until I feel like killing someone else.

Thoughts on Snarky and Blackstone?

Didn't like blacks #73 much. Could be shadowing scum. Also don't much like that post about jow there is nothing to really talk about.


I'm also debating weather or not I find

First, I think we're out of rvs so, UNVOTE:

scummy.

Like on one hand its a true statement but on the other I feel like there was no rean to really annouce it...like he was afraid of leaving his vote on his RVS target and I'm not sure that comes from town.

[Nero Cain]

Right. I formed opinions on TWO or THREE players. He's asking for my opinion on EVERYONE ELSE. How could I possibly have an opinion on that many people?

Like I can understand asking about others ON the wagon. But on and OFF the wagon?

Eh.....

I guess I didn't really read it like that. Like after Xkfyu voted there were only 4 players that posted before he asked you that. Though it was clear we were talking about those 4 and the other 2 voting you and not every single player in the game. Though I guess I could be giving Rose more credit then I should, idk.

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI: Check my most recent game for numerous examples of players stating they hate to play scum, and some explicitly suggesting they would lurk and/or sub-out.

I'm married, with 4 kids, extremely demanding job, active in my church, and coach two of my kids athletic teams...long story short, I don't have time. Why don't you get me links and post numbers and save me some time.

Sorry for the rant, but your attacking me due to "my lurking" ticks me off. I almost always play 1 game at a time here, follow on my phone, and get to posting when I have a free hour or so.

[I Am Innocent]

@JarJar: So you won't let go even after I role claimed. This makes you either scum or a very misguided town who will not be too beneficial to town on the long run.

UNVOTE: BlackStar

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

You're continued beating of the already very much dead horse is preventing the town from scumhunting elsewhere. There's NOTHING to be found here when I have stated, repeated and further reasserted my will to be the lynch of the day some 7-10 days later on. If you're going to spend a whole week inspecting my case and mine alone then I'm not sure my initial read on you was spot on (I'm getting well used to including scum in my initial town reads, so this doesn't at all surprise me).

In fact; at this point I'm willing to accept 15 other votes on me w/o considering it being scummy. Yours, and YOURS ALONE is the one vote I'd consider to be a STRONG SCUM TELL if you do cast it on me.

My current reads (subject to change at any given moment as the game goes on):

9. JarJarDrinks : 31 posts. Leaning town. Active, argumentative & persistent.

I think I need more explanation on how you got from the vote to leaning town.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm also debating weather or not I find

First, I think we're out of rvs so, UNVOTE:

scummy.

Like on one hand its a true statement but on the other I feel like there was no rean to really annouce it...like he was afraid of leaving his vote on his RVS target and I'm not sure that comes from town.

Hmmm, not one note on BeBop from the first 6 pages. Definitely under my radar, will keep an eye out.

[I Am Innocent]

Will finish my catchup later, but since I'm leaning town on JarJar

unvote JarJar
vote BlackStar

[Nero Cain]

Really? I find him (along with PeregrineV) to be the hardest to read on MS.

I think reading Ika is p EZ. He's never pro-town regardless of alignment but I'm basing his scum meta off of the other NY game where we lynched him. I'm not sure if he still hammers at l-1 with reckless abandon anymore. The only thing is if he's trying to change his play and fuck with that do nothing as scum meta.

[Almost50]

Here's an example. I can't be bothered doing a search in detail though.

I like town and 3rd party. My scum game is right down there with the worst of them. Generally I lurk then replace out. I can't fake scum hunting to save my life

[Almost50]

I think I need more explanation on how you got from the vote to leaning town.

I think it pretty obvious I read JarJar as town all along, and that my vote on him was to make my point go through to him.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm not even sure why this is an issue. I've already explained it. We have a hydra together, we've played together a lot, we are friends, so it is very easy for us to read each other.

How can U not be sure why it's an issue? You tell us you have a townread on someone so people question you about it. That's like, yaknow, mafia.

[Ricastle]

Alright, I've read up.

VOTE: SilverWolf

[JarJarDrinks]

8. BeBopReBop RhubarbPie : 4 posts. Very weak town lean. Being wary of me is only natural.

Except that I soft defended you.

Yup, not sure why he'd think ur wary of him.

I write up some notes after my

job interview tomorrow

(wish me luck!). Right now its

3 am and I'm heading to sleep.

O_o make better life choices .

j/k good luck to ya

Next, almost50. Read his meta before digging too deep into this. I'm not going to attempt to read him day 1 after defending him last game only to find out he was scum, but this sort of play seems normal for him.

Have you seen his town meta?

Only a little of what I read of his town game on this site. I haven't bothered with his off site games.

Seems weird that you'd defend his play in this game then. Why would you think this sort of play was normal for him? I feel like seeing that his play this game was similar to the scum game u played w/ him should give you the OPPOSITE opinion.

[Xkfyu]

@JarJar: So you won't let go even after I role claimed. This makes you either scum or a very misguided town who will not be too beneficial to town on the long run.

You claimed VT, you buffoon. This reads like you honestly expected your claim to relieve pressure from you, nay, that you made that post for such an intention.

Why wouldn't he expect that? Is that not the exact intention of any claim?

After someone claims, the onus is on town to decide whether or not that person is lying. Sure, some questioning and pressuring is necessary, but at some point, a decision must be made and we have to move on.

Either the majority believes Almost50 (at least for now), and we look elsewhere for scum, or the majority thinks he's lying and we should go ahead and lynch him.

Either way, this fiasco has become a major talking point that hasn't really led us to anything concrete. I think every just needs to make up their minds about Almost50, so that we can get past this.

[Xkfyu]

There's def scum in here defending him if he's town and if he's scum, likely a scumbuddy in here.

So basically what you're saying is that, regardless of ika's alignment, you believe one of {Keyser, Zulfy, Ricastle} is scum?

Yes

For the record, I think you're probably right.

@Xkfyu - please explain why "one of {Keyser, Zulfy, Ricastle}" is "probably" scum. Why are you ruling out the possibility of town challenging town, or town challenging scum?

I'm not ruling anything out. I don't think you're all scum. Just one. Therefore, there are "probably" two town players in that list as well.

Once I catch up with the thread, I'll circle back and explain exactly why I believe this to be the case.

[JarJarDrinks]

I think it pretty obvious I read JarJar as town all along, and that my vote on him was to make my point go through to him.

I didn't get that impression:

Spoiler:

@JarJar: So you won't let go even after I role claimed. This makes you either scum or a very misguided town who will not be too beneficial to town on the long run.

UNVOTE: BlackStar

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

You're continued beating of the already very much dead horse is preventing the town from scumhunting elsewhere. There's NOTHING to be found here when I have stated, repeated and further reasserted my will to be the lynch of the day some 7-10 days later on. If you're going to spend a whole week inspecting my case and mine alone then I'm not sure my initial read on you was spot on (I'm getting well used to including scum in my initial town reads, so this doesn't at all surprise me).

In fact; at this point I'm willing to accept 15 other votes on me w/o considering it being scummy. Yours, and YOURS ALONE is the one vote I'd consider to be a STRONG SCUM TELL if you do cast it on me.

You really think it was OBVIOUS that you were townreading me?

And you're basically admitting that you voted me for ONE reason: to save your own ass. Which totally conflicts with your whole "sacrifice me" attitude.


And I know I said I'd lay off you but this shit can't be ignored.

[Xkfyu]

Silver, when did this hydra of yours occur, and what exactly was the nature of Ika's play in that game? Unless I am provided evidence to the contrary, I will consider the statement I made nothing short of an objective fact.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=64698 Scum

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=64575 Town

Please be careful assuming you know someone's alignment based on meta as people can manipulate their meta.

Isn't that essentially what you and ika are doing to one another, though?

[Xkfyu]

sounds good i am nearly done with reads this is what i have so far if you want elaboratiosn feel free

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie - need more
golden - scum lean
IAI - need more
kiser - town
nero - null scum
rise - ask for read on me
silverwolf - town <3
snarky - leans scum
TBR - null scum? (this one is very gut based)

Don't forget me.

i know there was encrypotor/daytalk thing and whoever first said that is also prob town.

[Xkfyu]

its not wierd for me to turst her considering she knows every tell in the book that i haev and that i know most of hers as well

Please be careful assuming you know someone's alignment based on meta as people can manipulate their meta.

[Ricastle]

Not in that context, no. His goal in that post was to explain his actions and intentions, with his identity as a VT being a major part of that. The claim in itself was mostly unimportant, and had the post been nothing but a VT claim then he would most likely be close to L-1 right about now.

VT is the most worthless claim of all time. Nothing should be made out of it alone. One that acts as if it means anything on its own is nothing more than a fool as far as I'm concerned. And one that acts as if they deserve leeway due to it is someone I will not be letting out of my sight.

[Almost50]

1- I town-read you BEFORE this post. That's why I kept trying to convince you to look elsewhere and save me for last. If I scum-read before I would have been all over you.

2- You still didn't get my hint. I had to express it in a stronger way. I voted you, but not before I explained "This makes you either scum or

a very misguided town

". Then I followed with "I'm willing to accept 15 other votes on me w/o considering it being scummy. Yours, and YOURS ALONE is the one vote I'd consider to be a STRONG SCUM TELL if you do cast it on me."

Now I do believe my message went through there and you said you'd lay off. I only wanted you to do that for 48-72 hours to see what else is going on in the game. Now someone else managed to bring you back to the same point, and -I think- you should be more concerned about them and why they needed to make a U-turn to this same point when it has been "temporarily" put on the shelf for later on. It serves no purpose (at least from a town point of view) to spend most of our time dwelling on the same point over and over again. It does not help the town in any way, shape or form to focus on just one player all of the time.

Now -with all due respect- I'm not going to respond to anything related to this particular issue anytime soon. Anyone who brings it up before next Wednesday gets to talk to the hand.