Blitz 21 - Hope plus One ―kibou― [End]

[KTthecreeper]

Okay Mad king's chainsaw defense has convinced me that scatterplot is scum VOTE: Scatterplot

What does this mean? Mad King Ashnard hasn't been defending Scatterplot, at all.

And what makes Scatterplot a better vote than PhantomCobalt, if you have such a strong meta read on PhantomCobalt?

I said I respected his chainsaw defense witch means defending yourself with an attack on the attacker witch is called a chainsaw defense.

I droped my vote on phantom because I think plot is a bigger threat as scum.

Spoiler: something i'd post on md

that's not what chainsaw defense is (or at least not what ppl mean around here when they say "chainsaw defense).

when ppl on ms say "chainsaw defense" they mean defending another person by attacking that person's attacker. it used to be treated as a "scumtell" (see: tarhalindur's standard scumtells, the basic idea is that scum will chainsaw defend their scumbuddies), but it's since grown into a meaningless buzzword. it's ESPECIALLY meaningless in the absence of flips.

well RIP all the times I defended myself by attacking the person attacking me and getting call out for a "chainsaw defence"

[hiplop]

Scatter why say Expedience's meta read is valid? You're stating the obvious.

this.....

might be scum

plot or ether remind me why you're townreading this again, plz.

Its a playstyle thing I fear

Sakura is so so so scummy holy shit

Phantom wagon is a steaming pile of dicks. Dude is VI not scum.

Talah might actually be scum.

Expedience is an awful wagon and you should feel ashamed.

Are scum really this brazen about chainsaw defending Scatterplot?

finally being reasonable. Talah fucked up and is obvious scum. I'll give you some credence on plot in the future but like really, talah is scum dont tunnel.

Spiffy is town, but he's wrong on sakura I think.

Well you're wrong on the second. I'm not really sure about Sakura yet.
The "meh" on me seems okayish at this stage but I do tend to try to get a read on her fairly quickly (at least historically) so that could be stalling so she can go either way depending on where I end up.

Also what's with your assertion that Sakura an I don't know each other? Is that the basis of your scumread on me?
We've played a bunch of games together, but only one semi-recently before this.

So you, sir, appear to be trying to reinforce a bad read with bad assumptions.

Bad strawman is bad. It is NOT contigent on you not knowing eachother. Your interactions are awful and she overreacted like sakura does trying to deflect your wagon. That is seriously different than the misrep here. Seriously.

I think sakura is trying not to atep on any toes, spiff. How do you think she isnt?

Anti/Spiffmarq/plot are all town I think. Talah is still scum

[Trebuchet MS]

hiplop why are you town reading me?

Because usually I have to twist your arm to get you to recognize town me and you go to great lengths to convince everyone I'm scum.

So your seemingly arbitrary town read makes me paranoid.

~Spiffy

[hiplop]

Same feeling about you, actually lol. I think I'm right this time, honestly

I'm getting spifflop vibes, and especially marquis is super townie

[Mad King Ashnard]

That's 4 votes.

More until they start answering for their unexplained reads and for their deliberate refusal to claim a position on me.

[Ranger]

I wouldn't place hiplop so high, but I more or less like your reads.

That's because you're on the top this time. :P

Spoiler: responding to Scatterplot, on my readslist

{hiplop, Antihero} - hiplop because of his casual entrance saying that he was top tier? and for scumhunting on page 1? antihero for his song lyrics entrance? (he does that every game with a different song, it's his thing), for naked voting instead of overexplaining his vote? for his lack of self consciousness?

Close: hiplop's RVS seemed town, and then his casual attitude towards me, along with him seeing many of the same things I did, made him town. Antihero is similar: his reads look good and driven by town, with a casual attitude I think comes from town.

{Scatterplot, Wisdom} - me because i'm town*, wisdom because he's scumhunting and trying to figure people out? for attacking people who townread him instead of accepting the townreads as a gift?

Wisdom would "scumhunt" and "try to figure people out" alignment regardless, and probably also attack people who townread him. However, he's town because of WHO and HOW he's scumhunting on, so yes. You're in that same tier because while I don't agree with all your stances, I understand where they come from and think they're a town thought.

{Trebuchet MS} - for treating the game thread like their hydra pt and for voting talah?

Close enough. I liked their entrance, and they haven't done anything else to make me dislike them.

{Mad King Ashnard, PhantomCobalt} - for needing to see more from both of them?

Pretty much, yeah. Both are players I've previously found synergy with, yet also players who I have not always agreed with, while having us both be town. So I need to figure out if our lack of synergy is because we're simply not synchronized this game, or if they're actually scum.

{Ankamius} -for not doing very much yet?

More or less. Ankamius had the chance to do something. He didn't. That set off red flags.

{Sakura Hana} - trusting wisdom's read there?

No, my reads are my own. I didn't like Sakura Hana's entrance. In hindsight, on rereading it, it's not quite as bad as I recall, meaning I'd probably switch Ankamius and Sakura, but it's still not great.

{KTthecreeper} - for not grokking rvs? for saying something about phantom's meta and then recanting it as rvs? for playing mediator trying to get people to be nice instead of scumhunting? (i'd put "for townreading me too easily"in here but i doubt that's one of your reasons)

All of this and more. KTthecreeper has done many things worthy of voting.

{talah} - for butting in between wisdom and sakura, then sheeping wisdom (like everyone else said)?

If by that, you mean 13/17, then yes. Nothing I've seen from talah has changed my opinion of how bad that was.

[Ranger]

Now I think Expedience is town.

Believe it or not, I agree.

I have no reason to discredit you. You are town, Plot is town, so stop helping scum by tunneling on town. That's all.

Wisdom's name is highly appropriate.

I also think it's silly that we wagoned an Australian who has probably been asleep this whole time to hit the game off. But that's unrelated.

My stance on this shall forever be: it doesn't matter if the player being voted is or isn't around. Scum are scum. We lynch scum. We do that by voting scum. So a player who is scum doesn't get a pass just because they're not posting.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

Wisdom, you're wrong about Sakura Hana.

This

is scum.
It is not scum bussing.

It is just scum. Being opportunistic.

VOTE: phantomcobalt

While I need more time to be sure (there is the

possibility

of PhantomCobalt being scum), PhantomCobalt looks like the shiny to me.
As in, flashy and distracting, but ultimately not scum.
Sort of like a less-vocal version of Ashnard.

I'd much prefer we focus on talah/Ktthecreeper/Ankamius. Especially given this:

This is disgustingly scummy, too.

[Ranger]

VOTE: trebuchet ms

*sigh*

This is going to be one of

those

games.

Where a lot of TvT fighting happens, people keep getting distracted by all the shiny, going after a target for nonsensical reasons, defending a player who is town, getting scumread for defending that town player by another town player misreading said town player as scum, and the vicious cycle will continue while the scum--who everyone has vague scumreads on but won't pursue--won't be successfully wagoned in spite of my best efforts.

And then I'll die.

And continue ranting about the above from the dead topic.

[Ranger]

FTR activity is literally the worst possible metric anyone can use to try to read me. I have every level of activity you can think of in at least one game as both alignments.

Sure, sure, I won't scumread you for lurking, that's totally fair!

I will, however, scumread you for

active

lurking.

You're doing nothing.
Literally, nothing.
You and talah both, and to some extent KTthecreeper too.

[Ranger]

Anti/Spiffmarq/plot are all town I think. Talah is still scum

And this would be why hiplop is one of my top townreads.

[Ranger]

...Speaking of which...
{hiplop, Antihero, Wisdom}
{Scatterplot}
{Trebuchet MS, Mad King Ashnard, PhantomCobalt}
{Sakura Hana}
{Ankamius, KTthecreeper, talah}

This is everyone, save Ankamius and KTthecreeper, moving up. Not anyone (except Ankamius and KTthecreeper) moving down.

[hiplop]

explain kt? I actually cant remember them even posting

[Ranger]

explain kt? I actually cant remember them even posting

Part of the problem precisely.

KT's posting's blending in without making an impact.

You? Impact. Me? Impact. Antihero? Impact. Wisdom? Impact. Scatterplot? Impact. Trebuchet? Impact. Mad King Ashnard? Impact. Heck, even PhantomCobalt has had an impact, albeit a negative one. And while Sakura Hana is contestable, to me Sakura has had impact.

Ankamius, KTthecreeper, and talah all have not.

[talah]

Well you're wrong on the second. I'm not really sure about Sakura yet.
The "meh" on me seems okayish at this stage but I do tend to try to get a read on her fairly quickly (at least historically) so that could be stalling so she can go either way depending on where I end up.

Also what's with your assertion that Sakura an I don't know each other? Is that the basis of your scumread on me?
We've played a bunch of games together, but only one semi-recently before this.

So you, sir, appear to be trying to reinforce a bad read with bad assumptions.

Bad strawman is bad. It is NOT contigent on you not knowing eachother. Your interactions are awful and she overreacted like sakura does trying to deflect your wagon. That is seriously different than the misrep here. Seriously.

Bad strawman is bad? You're going to need to explain that little doozy to me, since the only real indication of *why* you find me scummy is directly with regard to my association with Sakura.

So my problem with talah is that talah got in the way of sakura and wisdom. and my problem with you is that you're getting in the way of me and phantom by being impatient and demanding answers NOW NOW NOW when I will explain my reads when i'm ready. I'm not going to lynch anybody based on unexplained reads, I'm not going to derail a wagon with unexplained reads, but i'm not going to explain reads that are still in progress.

YEP! For two people who don't know eachother they sure are talking to eachother INCREDIBLY strangely.

I wouldn't place hiplop so high, but I more or less like your reads.

i FLY HIGH LIKE PAPER GET HIGH LIKE PLANES

(I left the last bit there as an example of the other drivel you're injecting into the thread.)

Aside from that all you'd said was "why so aggressive" and then directly quoted my Post 15 and said it was scummy. No reasoning.
So rather than explain why your associative tells are rock-solid, you're actually saying that

I'm

talking crap when I address the only reasoning you've provided.

Here's your case:
talah's aggressive
Post 15 is scummy
Sakura and talah's interactions are awkward
They're even MOAR awkward because they don't know each other

Then when I point out that we do in fact know each other...

You're strawmanning, I didn't say my case was about you knowing or not knowing each other!!!1

---
You and Ranger both appear to be doing this thing where you cheerlead the talah-scum case, and anyone indicating that I might be scum, but fail to address me or attempt to get a read on me, directly.
You also both fail to do anything else to reinforce your own "cases".

For example:

{talah} - for butting in between wisdom and sakura, then sheeping wisdom (like everyone else said)?

If by that, you mean 13/17, then yes. Nothing I've seen from talah has changed my opinion of how bad that was.

This doesn't say anything about why those two posts are bad, just obliquely refers to them and moves on.
(Interestingly it leaves out post 15 which you yourself took umbrage with.)
However, seven out of eight of Rangers last posts refer to me being scum, and the only development of reasoning is (see below) which is also pretty terrible.

So you two are actually in my scumpile just because of how bad your arguments are.

---

You? Impact. Me? Impact. Antihero? Impact. Wisdom? Impact. Scatterplot? Impact. Trebuchet? Impact. Mad King Ashnard? Impact. Heck, even PhantomCobalt has had an impact, albeit a negative one. And while Sakura Hana is contestable, to me Sakura has had impact.

Ankamius, KTthecreeper, and talah all have not.

When did "impact" become a thing that only Town are capable of - therefore blanket town-reads are handed out on that basis?
This extremely poor reasoning. Also your latest readslist moving everyone else "up" only appears to serve to work around Mad King's issue with them being in a tier *below* Scatterplot.
What you've in fact done is picked out two others as "scum" and moved them down and then adjusted your townlist to be more palatable for RC - who incidentally I'm now leaning town based on this appeasement.

VOTE: Ranger

Happy to lynch hiplop
Open to lynching Scatterplot

[Wisdom]

I'm townreading Expedience now

bad

[Wisdom]

There's probably scum among Wisdom, RC hydra and KT because I can't get a read on them

Thatd be KT

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, you're wrong about Sakura Hana.

I know. Sakura is town.

[Wisdom]

Ranger, you forgot Experience.

[Wisdom]

Expedience*

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Ranger

Happy to lynch hiplop
Open to lynching Scatterplot

All three are town.

[Wisdom]

Phantom/KT/Expedience and maybe Ankamius if one of them is wrong. Everyone else is town.

[Ranger]

Sorry, my bad, Wisdom.

Expedience is a townread of undefined strength. Maybe he's a stronger townread, maybe he's a weaker townread. For now, stick him in the same tier as the others:
{hiplop, Antihero, Wisdom}
{Scatterplot}
{Trebuchet MS, Mad King Ashnard, PhantomCobalt, Expedience}
{Sakura Hana}
{Ankamius, KTthecreeper, talah}
Until I can more accurately give you something else, you can work with this as where I'm at.

[Ranger]

Since you're not scumreading talah, though, and Ankamius is an outlier for you:
VOTE: KTthecreeper.
Would you be willing to follow me on this?

[talah]

VOTE: Ranger

Happy to lynch hiplop
Open to lynching Scatterplot

All three are town.

All three are pushing my lynch (or snouting around it in the case of Scatterplot) with bad or no reasoning.
At best I *might* see hiplop as derp-town but really doubt it at this point.