Mini 419: Farkle Mafia (Game Over)

[Thesp]

Dagger seems to fake-plant claims and never says a word about death_omen/Seol/bird1111, the other scumz. I don't think bertrand/Adele is a whole lot better, but Dagger really seems off to me. And JordanA24 is innocent by investigation.

Vote: Dagger.

Die scum die.

[JordanA24]

Dagger

[/size]

Overrated or not, random votes get things going and set the first of patterns.

/agreed

So, do we keep rolling and keep gaining abilities instead of hunting scums?

The above post is extremely scummy, if we were’t playing Mafia, this game would be in the Mish Mash forum, so trying to distract the town from catching the scum is a very scummy thing to do.

When I made that post, it felt to me as if people didn't bother to post until it was their turn to roll, so it was meant as a jab to the town. If I didn't want to hunt scum, I would have just kept quiet about it.

Could be a genuine explaination, but this may well be a backtrack once he’s realised what a scummy post he just made. I’d appreciate if you really were trying to tell the town something, you either come out with it straight, or at least not word it so scummily.

Also, I think it'll be better if everyone simultaneously roll for each round, with a round ending after everyone has rolled. That way, the game will move faster.

Again trying to interfere with the flow of the game, though I think this time he might have townie intentions, if everyone did roll at the same time, it would move the game faster. Once everyone has rolled and someone has reached the set limit (probably by seeing who got there in the least number of turns, with a tiebreaker to break any ties), then we could get on with playing Mafia normally.

Also, confirming my vote on Nocmen to get things started.

Confirm Vote: Nocmen

That effectively ends my random vote.

Here's a case on him, albeit a rather weak one:
1. He has yet to post again since page 2, therefore he is actively lurking.
2. He speculated on the deaths on Night 0, indicating he has inside information on it and was trying to dig out more info.
3. His random vote served no purpose since it was based on the roll of a die.

All these rub me the wrong way and as far as my guts is telling me as of now, he is scum.

This really rubs me the wrong way, he’s confirm voting someone on an admittedly weak case, using the classic excuse “To get things started”.

And his case against Nocmen is extremely weak as well, he says it’s weak, but it’s really absolutely pathetic.

1. Actively lurking means he’s posting, but not putting much content into his posts, and posting just enough to not get prodded, so how’s he actively lurking if he isn’t posting? So Point 1 just boils down to “Because he’s lurking”, which is simply not a scumtell.

2. I find this to be an extremely flawed scumtell, I think town and scum are equally likely to do this, I know I often do even when I’m town.

3. … And? Dice might not be as good as a proper random vote, but it’s still not bad, and certainly not a scum tell.

So guessing on what really happened over night is a scumtell? I dont see anything wrong with guessing, trying to see if we are dealing with two killing groups, a bomb, vig, etc.

As for lurking, there hasnt been anything to comment on.

In that case, you are the best lead I have at the moment. Opinion, guys?

See the above post, the case was very weak, and now you’re saying it’s your best lead, even you admit it’s a weak case, if you know the case is poor, you shouldn’t ask people to maybe bandwaon him. And also, the way you said “Opinions, guys?” gives me the feeling you are seeking town approval, and if you don’t, you’ll back down.

They want to lynch me because I'm doing well in terms of points as far as I can tell. Also, it seems Nocmen has 4 votes, any reason why?

I think based on your previous reasoning on not helping the others roll, you have a much higher chance of being a scum than ourselves, who knew with a certainty we are town?

Anyone else have a better case than Nocmen?

This is bollocks. How on Earth does Coron not wanting to help others roll make him have “a much higher chance of being scum”??? And if this is what you feel, why aren’t you voting for him, and asking if anyone else has a better case than Nocmen, a case you admitted was poor?!

And I cannot see an example of Coron saying someone else is certainly town.

I agree with coron. As for a better case than nocmen, maybe not, but without a deadline there's no reason to just accept a half-baked and weak one.

True. We'll just keep the discussion going on in the meantime.

See what I said, he doesn’t get town backing, and he backtracks, now that IS a scumtell.

Let's speed up this game a bit. It's bad enough that most people post only when they have to roll.

Why don’t you speed the game up?

Okay, I am going to

Unvote, Vote: Mojo

. I can't remember who I last placed my vote on.

I lost touch with the game for a while and right now I am voting who I think is likely to be a scum.

If Mojo was likely scum, why don’t you want to post a case against him? You were also voting with Bird, who is confirmed scum.

Still up for a Coron lynch.

Why? If I find your reason good enough, I might vote him.

Blatent bandwagonning here, and if the town was to lynch Coron and he turned up town (and he would have), he could have blamed CES for it, he started the bandwagon after all.

Slow.

And I barn Nocmen.

Vote: Cogito Ergo Scum

Another vote on a townie for no reasoning.

Good point. Let's speed things up a bit then.

Unvote, Vote: Nocmen

I am interested in a claim.

Bandwagonning ftw! Though to be fair to him, he does seem to be buddying with Seol, who was scum, I’d prefer to dissociate myself from any scumbuddies.

Unvote

I am inclined to trust that claim.

Now we go for CES, yes?

Again, making sure the town agrees with him first.

I would suggest we just go for the other option, i.e. CES, but it seems unlikely right now.

And again, if you wanted to go for CES, why not vote him?

One less kill per night will prolong the number of days, which means more time for the town to do analysis, which can only be good for the town.

Unless he hits scum, in which case, the town’s job would be much easier.

Unvote

I have decided that I am against CES' lynch today.

As soon as the bandwagon on him dies down and you’ve made him claim a town power-role.

@Dagger: well for one thing there was the lack of a vote when the deadline came. a) That's not very helpful for the town and b) unlike others who had simply disappeared you were active very close to the end.

a)I don't vote when I am uncertain (barring early game random vote), unlike scums who I think will vote so that a mislynch will occur.

O RLY?

Also, confirming my vote on Nocmen to get things started.

Confirm Vote: Nocmen

That effectively ends my random vote.

Here's a case on him,

albeit a rather weak one:

And on Day 1, you were vote hopping like mad.

I would be perfectly happy with a push in Kilm's direction.

Why?

I would be perfectly happy with a push in Kilm's direction.

y

[why?]

Because I think she is scum and I have a vote on her.

Same question as above.

I would be perfectly happy with a push in Kilm's direction.

y

[why?]

Because I think she is scum and I have a vote on her.

y

Because I think she is scum and I have a vote on her.

I want to know Dagger's reasoning for the vote.. I don't see why he's avoiding revealing it..

Oh, then why don't you say so directly instead of asking so vaguely?
Here:

@ Dagger: how about "discussing" why you're against lynching ces today, and why you're now voting kilmenator?

I have read kilmenator's posts on Day 2 again and I don't like them at all. It reeks too much of "nudge, nudge, lynch CES, don't mind me, nudge, nudge".

“Y?” is hardly vague, it is perfectly simple, it means “Why are you voting this person?” What’s with the not wnating to explain your votes?

I so swear that I am going to stab myself if we are going for another no lynch.

Then why are you voting Kilm, who no-one else is voting for? I’m pretty sure it’s because you know CES is town, and if the town lynches him (which was looking very likely at this stage), people having a quick glace will see you weren’t on the wagon.

We'll assume the deadline is on Friday 10th then, since it's the Mod's fault for being unclear. :p

How about those still not voting make their votes known for the black and white record?

You’ve expressed you didn’t want another no-lynch, so the fact you’re still not voting CES despite me posting a vote count makes me really sure you are not for the reasons I’m posting above.

@Jordan: I will be awaiting one from you then.

I think I can say you got one. : P

Summary

: Scum

Scumdar

: 9.5, the only way you can get a 10 is admitting in-thread being scum.

Vote: Dagger

[Thesp]

Woohoo!

[ThAdmiral]

Did you ever claim thesp?

[Dagger]

Since two confirmed townies are against me, I am not going to bother defending myself.

The only scums I can see at this point are Betrand or Admiral. Gameplay-wise I would say Admiral. Claim-wise I would say Betrand. The problem now here is whether Admiral is falseclaiming or not since he claimed to protect Kilm last night.

Since I am really a vanilla, I am assuming Betrand is the last scum here. At any rate, if I am a betting man, my bet would be on Betrand.

And since I have given my opinion, feel free to vote/hammer me anytime.

GoGo.

[Dagger]

Actually, Admiral may be the scum here because unless the mafia can roleblock (I assuming there is only a scum left) AND kill at the same night, it's impossible his protect on Kilm would fail.

[Dagger]

EBWOTP: Actually, why are we giving Admiral a pass here? In order for his protect to fail, someone definitely have to roleblock him and if such is the case, the person who roleblocked him wouldn't be able to kill Kilm. It's almost certain that he's lying about being the doc.

The town decides of course.

Cheerio.

[Thesp]

Did you ever claim thesp?

I claimed to have an investigation. I'm not claiming any further.

EBWOTP: Actually, why are we giving Admiral a pass here? In order for his protect to fail, someone definitely have to roleblock him and if such is the case, the person who roleblocked him wouldn't be able to kill Kilm.

It is not necessarily the case that a roleblocker cannot kill in the same night. (It's happened in some games before.) I can imagine at least one more plausible scenario where ThAdmiral is telling the truth.

Happy with my vote on Dagger.

[JordanA24]

Hammah Time!!!!

[Nai]

Still a vote left before the day ends.

[Thesp]

Still a vote left before the day ends.

Could you do a vote count while you're around, pretty please?

[ThAdmiral]

Unless I was told there were no doctors in this game why would I claim doctor as a mafiate?

[Nai]

Dagger: Thesp and Jordan.
Not voting: Everyone else.

3 to lynch.

[ThAdmiral]

vote: dagger

This could be it.

[Dagger]

Unless I was told there were no doctors in this game why would I claim doctor as a mafiate?

No idea. It's not really my problem now anyway. It's for the town to figure out tomorrow, if there is one.

Go town~~~

Don't die on me.

[bertrand]

vote Dagger

I think he's a better choice then Admiral.. I can't see this day ending with anyone else, so..

Dagger has reached an unprecedented level of scumminess in some ways.. and he contradicted himself a lot..

[Nai]

Dagger: Thesp and Jordan, Bertrand and ThAdmiral
Not voting: Everyone else.

3 to lynch.

Dagger was a vanilla townie.

It is now Night 4. Give me night choices, or else.

[Nai]

Waiting for one person. If they don't give me their choice within 3 days, I'll make the choice for them.

[Nai]

Day dawns, and ThAdmiral is dead. He was your doc.

It is now Day 5. There are 3 of you alive, so it is 2 to lynch.

[Thesp]

Vote: bertrand

, as I see no reason to distrust my result from yesterday. For what it's worth, I had only received a one-shot investigation, so I'm particularly glad that Bertrand was killed, as I don't have to minorly agonize today as to whether or not Bertrand was bluffing.

JordanA24, feel free to take your time today if you want, as the day won't end until you say it does. Feel free to ask any questions or take your time if you like - you're the decider of how long the day takes.

[bertrand]

Vote Thesp

I don't think it's Jordan, if it were, I'd be dead. That Leaves Thesp.

And convincing Jordan it's Thesp. I'm not sure how to so that... it's all up to you man. Anything you'd like to ask me?

[Thesp]

I don't think it's Jordan, if it were, I'd be dead.

I'm really, really not sure how you came to this conclusion.

[Thesp]

I don't think it's Jordan, if it were, I'd be dead.

I'm really, really not sure how you came to this conclusion.

I've been thinking even more about this, and it makes

zero

sense.

Suppose JordanA24 is scum. What's the best kill for him? If he's scum, presumably I'm telling the truth (barring an incredibly unlikely scenario at this point). That means killing

me

makes the most sense

because it confirms him - if I show up as town with an investigation on him, it's incredibly unlikely he would be lynched

. Moreover, if he's concerned about the doc protect (which is apprently insignificant anyway), even on a failed kill, a mislynch would win him the game, which is entirely possible with my innocent investigation on him. The only reasonable explanation for him to be scum would be if my one-shot was either naive/insane (which is highly, highly unlikely for one-shot abilities), or that he's a Godfather, in which case my second investigation (which would be most certainly on Bertrand) would show

ThAdmiral

as the only unconfirmed by investigation, and leading to a strong push for

his

lynch.

In no scenario can I imagine how Bertrand would be the one killed at night, regardless of who is scum.

I cannot fathom why you made the declaratory you did.

[JordanA24]

Going to do an analysis of Thesp.

[JordanA24]

Thesp

Last to confirm, slight town tell?

So, do we keep rolling and keep gaining abilities instead of hunting scums?

It's going to sound weird, but I don't like this question. To me, it almost seems like he doesn't want to hunt scum.
I know this question might have been a joke or just a mindless question, but it still looks a bit scummy to me.
Unvote: Thesp. Vote: Dagger

Funny, I thought the

opposite

. I can conceive of something else, though...

dagger, how much have you played mafia?

Eh? Where did you get this from Thesp? It seemed quite obvious that he was saying he didn't want to hunt scum, just roll the dice instead.

You used all 6 dice, so you get to keep going.

On this issue, I feel this does not imply Thespscum, reminding someone that it's still their turn when they seem to have forgotten is sportsmanlike, not scummy. The fact Bird turned out to be scum just looks like coincidence to me.

Also, I'd be good with either a Coron or a Mojo lynch. Not fond of the Nocmen wagon.

Why? And why are you saying you'd be happy with lynches this early?

Unvote: Nocmen, Vote: Coron.

Time to get moving.

Hang on, you said in your post, you weren't fond of the Nocmen wagon, yet you didn't take your vote off him. Explain please.

Because I think you're full of it, and giving suspect reasons for your early attacks.

Second reason is OK, but the first is an example of lynching the player not the role, never a good thing for the town to do.

They want to lynch me because I'm doing well in terms of points as far as I can tell.

He wants to lynch me because I'm winning the Farkle game. Not a particularly strong reason.

The former quote is misleading, and the latter is oversimplified.

/agrees, after reading back properly on the issue, CES also said gut was a reason for voting Coron.

Seol! Yes! Maybe now I'll get to where I care about this game.

I find this to be quite townie, since Seol turned out to be scum, I wouldn't have expected a reaction like this towards a scumbuddy replacing in, I'd have expected distancing. Then again, this is WIFOMy.

Vote count, please. I need to see who I'm going to vote for.

Why do you need a vote count? Surely you should just vote for who you find scummiest. Asking for a vote count makes it look like you want to bandwagon. I find this statement very scummy.

I also find it intriguing that Seolscum posted an unofficial vote count and said this in the same post:

So, for example, a vote for Thesp is probably a vote for no-lynch at this point (not that I want to vote for Thesp)

Why did he say Thesp in particular, why not anyone else who was on 0 votes? This really bothers me.

Well...damn, im at Ly-1.

Believe me if you want to or not. Im a Vig, I killed Dean last night.

Who's up for a SK lynch?

Bit quick to jump to conclusions, aren't we?

Secondly, we don't have a deadline any more but we really ought to, y'know,

play mafia

. I'm happy with my vote on Nocmen for now but this feels like a game 80% composed of lurkers who are only here for the Farkle...

QFT. As one of those who is apparently unintentionally lurking, I'm having a hard time really figuring out where to go right now. I find myself not caring a whole lot, which bothers me.

Unvote: Coron, Vote: Nocmen

. I'd still rather see Coron swing, but I'll bandwagon someone where we can get some action.

I wasn't paying attention when I read my role. After the crash, I went and reread everything I had to not get my roles in each game confused after a week hiatus or so. That's all I can really say to my past thought, poor reading comprehension made me take the chance that did pay out.

That does actually make sense, and if it's a lie, it's a

very

clever one. Furthermore, it only makes sense if you are a vig, not an SK.

unvote.

As uncomfortable as I am with claimed vigs who fire N1 being left alive, I do find your argument here very compelling.

Unvote: Nocmen

. I'd still like for Coron to swing.

Hmm, twice in a row, he follows Seolscum here. While I would normally find this to be quite town evidence, this combined with the way you greeted Seol at first would all fit if you are trying to WIFOM somebody into thinking you and Seol are unlikely to be partners.

So now we have to decide who he is to kill tonight, or if indeed that is necessary.

Why?

FOS: ThAdmiral

.

Two reasons:

1. the town can have two lynches

2. if he is a serial killer then he would be working for town anyway.

I would be happy if he didn't hit anyone tonight. We don't have any strong leads on anyone and should really only be looking to go for a kill if there's a cop investigation or something really suspicious in the next few days.

I disagree, I think he should kill as he sees fit, and I don't want him revealing who he will kill.

That is dangerous because there is still the remote possibility he's not a vig as was claimed.

How else will we find out if he's the Serial Killer or not? Also, why help out the mafia? I bet they'd love to know who he's going to kill. Also, won't the alignment of the lynched play some role in the decision?

/agreed

End Day 1 Voting Record

Not Voting (5): Adele, Dagger, Seol,

Thesp

, Cogito Ergo Scum

Cogito Ergo Sum (3): Kilmenator, Nocmen, ThAdmiral

While, normally, I would take not voting to be quite anti-town, in this instance, since the the leading bandwagon was on a townie, I would imagine a scum would try to get CES lynched, rather than not use their vote at all.

Because:
1) You're sometimes quite stretching in finding links between people.
2) It unhelpful talking about links that make the death of a townie incriminate someone else. It's what the mafia did last night, and it's what you're trying to do to.

1) I disagree that I'm stretching. Sometimes links are tenuous, but scum rarely connect themselves to each other in obvious ways. I use what I can take.
2) I respectfully disagree. Also, how do you know what the mafia were trying to do with their nightkill last night? I'm also intrigued as to where I made these "links that make the death of a townie incriminate someone else" you referred to - can you point them out? You seem to assert I was using them pretty strongly.

This I agree with.

Let me put it this way - I can live with suggestions to the vig (though I think them unwise), though I think it should be clear that the vig do whatever they want.

3 days later...

I'm going to start voting anyone who tries to guide the vig in whatever capacity. It's got to stop. The vig should do whatever the frick they feel like.

Quite a change of tune, why?

Thanks. I suspect that Seol may need to be replaced.

I think the at the end of the post is a slight town tell, considering that it makes your closeness to Seol seem more genuine, and is consistent with your reaction to when Seol replaced in.

No matter who the cop is, they should take into account the possibility of sanity issues. CES's reasoning makes a lot of sense, admittedly. Pointing it out would be very protown if he wasn't expecting a roleclaim.

Except he is. He wants the entire thread to know the cop's identity, and that's a rather scummy motive.

FoS: CES

Thanks for outing yourself as kilmenator's partner.

Why the frick would CES want the

whole thread

to know the cop's identity?

Wouldn't that key in the doctor to who the cop is? That, it seems to me, would be

bad

for scum. Now, I am in no way suggesting the cop should out themselves or drop hints or anything at this point (for all we know, the scum have a roleblocker, see prior argument re: directing the vig). Yet it seems the manner in which CES did it is decidedly

not

more likely to come from scum than town - note that he asked only one person, and even gave them an out and said they didn't have to answer. (Besides, scum hunt for cops at night with their buddies, not during the day, as they

don't

want the town to know who the cop is.) This attack is weak, opportunistic, and merely posing as scum-hunting. (I also thought the sanity-issues line was a pre-emptive attack on a power role, which is also scummy.)

Unvote: kilmenator, Vote: Mokina.

I'd vote kilmenator to avoid a no-lynch, but I'm more certain of Mokina.

I am 1000% against a CES lynch today.

In this post, you seem way too sure that CES is town, and you're basing all your suspicions (and the fact that you wouldn't mind if the cop claimed) on your certainty that he is. The evidence you posted for CES is pretty weak in proportion to how sure you seem to be that he's town, and how certain you are that Kilm and in particular Mokina are scum.

I am quite uneasy about CES. On one hand, we have the Roleblocker claim. Whilst I have little-no trouble believing the role itself, I can't help but feel a tad suspicious of the alignment, since I assume that this game is highly role based (especially due to the added Farkle-ness). That being said, it is still possible for a townie roleblocker. I am, however,

very

sceptical about the existence of a Miller Roleblocker...

Who said miller-roleblocker?

FOS: somestrangeflea

.

I think he was getting at the fact that you asked him if he was a miller rather than that CES denied being one. The FOS seems odd and out of place to me.

Explain how it was intimidation, I was only reporting what I'd read.

It sounds like, "RAWR, I think CES is scum, and Thesp is defending CES, so Thesp is scum too, what does anyone else think about CES?"

And who's the one that's been making links between players all game? This seems horribly hypocritical to me.

Should I even bother farkling?

No. In fact, I specifically think we should

not

Farkle right now - no sense getting roleblocking abilities for scum right now (or on a future night).

I don't like this post either, once Death_Omenscum was lynched, there was only a 1 in 6 chance that scum would win the farkling, giving a 5 in 6 the town would get an ability. Mind you, saying this doesn't really make sense if you are scum.