Mini 508- Trouble in New Catania-Game Over

[Happiest Sadist]

Shortest name, easiest to type.

vote: rite

[Happiest Sadist]

unvote

We aren't random anymore.

[Happiest Sadist]

Responding to prod.

The

LML

vs

Claus

dynamic is interesting. However I'm not really suspicious of either of them being scum yet.

LML

is attacking, but I'm not getting that he's trying to conjure up a case to lynch.

Claus

is defending himself. But he's not trying to shift suspicion to a third player or doing anything else shady. It bears watching, but there isn't anything I can say to enlighten the situation yet. Also I don't really suspect either of them yet.

I'm off to work. I'll comment on the later portion of the thread when I get back.

[Happiest Sadist]

I believe that someone2 might be a better lynch candidate for today

You're already talking about lynching? I think you push too far there
]

Why else are we voting and talking? It is almost certain we will lynch someone today. We might get lucky and hit scum. Even if we miss, the only way to get scum to reveal themselves is to have discussions with death at stake. Otherwise they nightkill someone and we are in the same situation tomorrow with one less pro-town player.

Also, I do note that

someone2

did not explicitly use a logical fallacy. He raised suspicions. However he did not put forward an argument to prove

Lowell

is scum. Then

LML

claimed he was putting forward such an argument. Although playing aggressively is not scummy, distorting other player's posts is. The scum should reveal themselves in their own posts, not straw men thrown up by others. Because of this,

FOS:LML

.

Lowell

has been acting incredibly suspicious. He votes for someone whose name he doesn't even take the 10 seconds to look up the spelling of for unspecified suspicious behavior. Then when questioned he flat out accuses another person of being scum without reason. Then in his next post, rather than explaining either of his votes he says other people are attacking Claus for inadequate reasons. I can hardly imagine reasons less adequate than

Lowell

uses himself.

Vote: Lowell

[Happiest Sadist]

I know bad spelling isn't a scum tell on its own. Its the fact that he acknowledged that he didn't care about spelling. He also didn't care about explaining his votes either.

[Happiest Sadist]

Lowell's post of "I just gave you two scum" could be a bussing technique that I have used before. Have a list of two, bus the mafia partner first (Streeflo) and then lead the town to a mislynch (Kuribo).

THis type of play happens entirely too often. I see it non-stop.

Unvote, Someone2. Vote, Lowell

If it is, this is a supremely bad time to use it. It seems that that bussing technique (and most others) rests on the scum you are giving up being much more suspicious than you. Since Lowell is much more suspicious than either of them it doesn't really help. Also, this early in the game a myslynch & a scum lynch packaged doesn't really help the town.

However, is it possible that Lowell is self-bussing? He is suspected of being scum and can't see a good defense so he launches baseless accusations against his scum buddy (or both if there are three scum in this game.) Lowell gets lynched for bad play and the town assumes that he wasn't naming his partners. Thus suspicion is diverted from the surviving scum.

[Happiest Sadist]

EBWOP. Lynching a scum and a pro-town player doesn't really hurt the town.

[Happiest Sadist]

Everyone needs to be careful about this discussion we are having now. We have not lynched

Lowell

and are still unsure of if he is scum.

LML

brought up bussing, and although this is a good topic to discuss it can wait until tomorrow if we lynch

Lowell

. Bringing it up now can switch our debate from "Is

Lowell

scum?" to "Given that

Lowell

is scum, what does his behavior mean?"

If we continue to argue on the second question it makes

Lowell

look more and more scummy while producing no new evidence against him. Because of this, switching the debate in this way can be a very effective scum tactic. It can cause a mislynch while keeping the scum at arm's length from the action or even allowing them to defend the person they doomed.

Because of that, I suggest that we stop discussing what

Lowell's

behavior means assuming he is scum until tomorrow and get back to the relevant question concerning him. "Is

Lowell

scum?"

[Happiest Sadist]

Sorry about the excessive bolding. I will cut back in the future. I was unsure on the protocol. Rather than bolding I all names I will only bold FOS's, votes and other 'keyworded' terms.

[Happiest Sadist]

-77 meaningless post by Happy accusing Lowell, but doesn't vote (looks bad due to timing, as if he's trying to fit in)

This is inaccurate, in post 77 I did vote for you Lowell.

Also Lowell, you have hardly explained why you were so certain that Kuribo & Stree were scum. Before you did it without giving reasons (which is not cool.) Now the reasons you have given seem very weak (Kuribo made a premature comment on a bandwagon and Stree referenced other games.) It almost seems you are making an ex post facto justification for your behavior.

[Happiest Sadist]

someone2 is insane, and probably scum.

God. Damn. It. Lowell.

Why are you the prime candidate for getting lynched?

It is because you make claims that people are scum, in definitive terms, without giving a reason for your claims. Why are you unable to grasp this fact? Within the last page people have been giving reasons why they think Someone2 is scum. All you had to do to not dig yourself deeper is cite the same reason. Still you don't do it.

Considering this I feel confident Lowell is insane and probably scum.

[Happiest Sadist]

I'm not trying to please anyone, I'm trying to get this game going. Unless we get another viable wagon that people can talk about at least, I'll be lynched by sheer inertia and laziness.

Here's your problem. If I end up dead, there will be NO good information to go on for tomorrow, since no one else will have ever been in danger. And as satisfying as it may be to write "oh well, he deserved it for acting scummy" it'll still not help force some of the lurkier players to do anything that could potentially help later on.

Here's my problem. Even if you are alive there will be NO good information. This is because you continue to do stupid things to draw attention to yourself. What can we discuss to find other scum while Lowell is votehopping for no good reason, voting for anyone who he hopes he can ge lynched to save his own skin? Nothing.

[Happiest Sadist]

These are just suppositions that can give the town information. I know that the townies are not always voting for scum players,they can make mistakes, I'm not stupid like that. But forget about the townies and think about the scum. If a player is scum, his scumbuddies will be tempted to defend him, if a player is town, scum would be tempted to attack him. So SCUM have BETTER CHANCES to defend Lowell if he's scum, and SCUM have BETTER CHANCES to attack Lowell if he is town. I know that scum can attack their scumbuddy and defend townies, but i think it would be rather stupid for a scum to attack his buddy when he's at lynch-1, but that's just my opinion, I don't know everything.

This is true only if the scum believes that his behavior can swing the town's decision to lynch that day and in the next couple of days. If a lynch is inevitable scum will defend a town player or finish off a scum player to appear pro-town. The scum realizes that if he mounts an unsuccessful defense against a correctly identified scumbuddy or manages to drive support against a townie this will draw suspicion the next day.

[Happiest Sadist]

I know I haven't been saying much, however there isn't much to say. I wasn't going to even respond when only Lowell was voting for me because there was no argument to answer, and he would probably have changed his vote in a short while anyway. Now, as to the charges that I said nothing new, I admit that I haven't.

I have been arguing against Lowell because he is suspicious, and he is, whoever waid it first.

As to the last comment, I wanted to say that now, before it could be seen as defending or attacking someone. By stating it now as theory, I hope to head off some bad arguments on day 2. It is WIFOM reasoning, but because of WIFOM reasoning, it does not seem to me that who voted to lynch a player on day 1 is a strong indicator of who is scum under these circumstances. Someone2's post could be read to imply that we would find the scum on the 'lynch Lowell' side if Lowell is town and the 'don't lynch Lowell' side if he isn't.

[Happiest Sadist]

Okay, here goes with the requested rehash of why I am voting for Lowell still. Lowell began the game by making unjustified accusations. When asked to back up the accusations, instead of providing justifications he responded with aggression and abuse. He seemed offended that people wouldn't take his suspicions as proof.

When he was close to being lynched, he defended himself in an inappropriate manner. His main defenses were not explanations of why his behavior was really pro-town. Instead he pleaded with us to please start persecuting other people. Since then he has been following any other argument against anyone with a vote, which shows he is not concerned with finding out who is scum. He is only concerned with making sure someone else gets lynched. This is scummy because town's goal is to find and lynch scum. However scum only needs to deflect suspicion off of themselves.