Mini 422 - Paranoia Mafia - Game Over

[Mr. Flay]

You're right, my role does absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell. So far no one's role has been proven to do anything, as far as I can tell. If someone knows otherwise, they damn well better speak up!

unvote, Vote: chaotic_diablo

- that was the weakest case for an endgame vote I've ever seen.

[chaotic_diablo]

You're right, my role does absolutely nothing, as far as I can tell. So far no one's role has been proven to do anything, as far as I can tell. If someone knows otherwise, they damn well better speak up!

unvote, Vote: chaotic_diablo

- that was the weakest case for an endgame vote I've ever seen.

Actually, your role is a role that has no use even if it did work properly. Even if you succesfully look for mutants, what exactly does your role accomplish? How does it benefit town? So you find someone to be a mutant, now what? We get nil, zip, nothing from your "investigative role".
Even Stark has claimed that if his role worked, then we would find scum. He even listed the details and specifics.
Just because there hasn't been a role proven to work succesfully, it doesn't mean there aren't any. It just happens that your role doesn't provide in any way, which causes me to believe it's a fake claim.

In addition, you put me at -1 when you are suspicious of killajay, who freakin hammered Peter. You either want me to get lynched quickly or refuse to take the time to discuss.

[Mr. Flay]

No one else is voting killajay. I'd move my vote back there in a heartbeat if someone would, but this game was going NOWHERE for more than a week with my vote there. Either we're not at lynch-or-lose, or the major lynch targets have been scum, because there's been more than enough time for a quicklynch in the last two month. I'm willing to bet the former.

So because my role would do nothing, it must be a fake claim? Riiiight. If I was fake-claiming, why the &*%&^$#% would I claim a role that does zilch?? stark's claim was equally improbable from the other direction, but we'll never know because of his death.

[Mr. Flay]

Unvote

- TCS said he'd vote chaotic_diablo or The Fonz and I don't want to end day w/o finishing this discussion.

[chaotic_diablo]

No one else is voting killajay. I'd move my vote back there in a heartbeat if someone would, but this game was going NOWHERE for more than a week with my vote there. Either we're not at lynch-or-lose, or the major lynch targets have been scum, because there's been more than enough time for a quicklynch in the last two month. I'm willing to bet the former.

So because my role would do nothing, it must be a fake claim? Riiiight. If I was fake-claiming, why the &*%&^$#% would I claim a role that does zilch?? stark's claim was equally improbable from the other direction, but we'll never know because of his death.

It goes with the same reasoning as why Peter would claim he would be missing parts of his pm.

Faking a role that does zilch makes it more believable to some people. Since Peter just claimed a role with missing elements, it's possible a fake role can be made to take advantage of it. Which brings me back to what you said when your role probably didn't work because of "Bastard Moddery," and "Player Interference".

[Mr. Flay]

So because my role would do nothing, it must be a fake claim? Riiiight. If I was fake-claiming, why the &*%&^$#% would I claim a role that does zilch?? stark's claim was equally improbable from the other direction, but we'll never know because of his death.

It goes with the same reasoning as why Peter would claim he would be missing parts of his pm. [/quote]Uhhh? If the first post can be trusted (and if it can't, I'll vote myself right now), Peter was Pro-Town. So presumably he was telling the truth.

Faking a role that does zilch makes it more believable to some people. Since Peter just claimed a role with missing elements, it's possible a fake role can be made to take advantage of it. Which brings me back to what you said when your role probably didn't work because of "Bastard Moddery," and "Player Interference".

I don't even understand what you're trying to say here. Either the role doesn't work because of "bastard moddery" (since at least one dead pro-town player claimed a mutant power) and I'm effectively naïve, or someone's interfering. I don't

know

what it would do if it worked properly, because to date I haven't gotten any useful information out of it!

Which is why I've been trying to determine if

anyone

else's mutant power demonstrably works. If not, the chances of bastard moddery/naiveté go way up, and we can ignore that information, including perhaps the 'clearing' of killajay.

[Mr. Flay]

Argh, I'm typing too fast: screwed up the nested quote tags in my last message, and the time span in 677 should say "in the last two weeks".

[chaotic_diablo]

Uhhh? If the first post can be trusted (and if it can't, I'll vote myself right now), Peter was Pro-Town. So presumably he was telling the truth.

Which also means it's a viable method to get people to believe it a second time.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say here. Either the role doesn't work because of "bastard moddery" (since at least one dead pro-town player claimed a mutant power) and I'm effectively naïve, or someone's interfering. I don't know what it would do if it worked properly, because to date I haven't gotten any useful information out of it!

Since Peter supposively experienced Bastard Moddery, it's also possible that scum can use this reasoning to support a claim that cannot be proven or "cleared". When you stated the reasoning to why your role wouldn't work, it seemed like a very viable scum strategy to me.

[Mr. Flay]

I don't consider Missing Role PM Information to be Bastard Moddery, just Incompetent Moddery (no offense, Thesp). And it still doesn't explain why you think I would,

given a choice

, craft a fake roleclaim that would do nothing useful. Why not use my cleverness to craft a way to obtain a mislynch, for example?

[chaotic_diablo]

I don't consider Missing Role PM Information to be Bastard Moddery, just Incompetent Moddery (no offense, Thesp). And it still doesn't explain why you think I would,

given a choice

, craft a fake roleclaim that would do nothing useful. Why not use my cleverness to craft a way to obtain a mislynch, for example?

A fake claim of townie would do nothing useful, that causes suspicion on those townies endgame. It is more likely that a "potential" power role would escape suspicion. Our list of lynch candidates only consists of townies.

Crafting a claim to mislynch is risker and more difficult than crafting a claim to look innocent. Would you be clever enough to convince us not to observe your actions and results closely?

[Thesp]

Daycycle 5 Tallying of Troubleshooters

Chaotic_diablo

- 1 (The Fonz)

The Fonz

- 1 (The Central Scrutinizer)

Mr. Flay

- 1 (chaotic_diablo)

No Lynch

- 1 (killajay)

Not Voting

- 1 (Mr. Flay)

With 5 clone templates still with us, a vote of 3 is sufficient to present for the "usual treatment of traitors".

[Mr. Flay]

Crafting a claim to mislynch is risker and more difficult than crafting a claim to look innocent. Would you be clever enough to convince us not to observe your actions and results closely?

In a word, yes. Have you read my prior games as scum??

Your logic is still shaky, but I'm not convinced you're the play for today.

Vote: killajay

[chaotic_diablo]

Crafting a claim to mislynch is risker and more difficult than crafting a claim to look innocent. Would you be clever enough to convince us not to observe your actions and results closely?

In a word, yes. Have you read my prior games as scum??

Your logic is still shaky, but I'm not convinced you're the play for today.

Vote: killajay

No I haven't read any of your prior games. It would be helpful if you pointed me to the right direction.

[Mr. Flay]

User:Mr._Flay/Playing_record#Finished.2FDead - the Guitarists Mini, NG 156, NG 317, and NG 436 are probably some shining examples.

[Mr. Flay]

*drums fingers on table*

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I'm a little suspicious of Flay at the moment. I'm a little edgy when someone points out examples of their scum play to verify their innocence. It's a major WIFOM-type game if you ask me.

I still have the feeling of being snowed this game, so I'm likely to vote Flay or Fonz at this point.

[Mr. Flay]

chaotic_diablo's major argument against me seems to be that he thinks my roleclaim is fake because it does nothing. I riposted that if I was

fake

claiming, I'd have done a better job. He asked for evidence that I would be able to make an actual claim stick and not draw suspicion. I gave him examples of my play as scum (which is frankly generally better than my play as town).

Yes, it's a bit WIFOM, but it's not without provocation.

[chaotic_diablo]

I've just thought of a better way to explain my point. I'm not saying that your roleclaim is fake because it does nothing, I'm saying that it's fake because it's a power role that can't be confirmed. Confirming a role reveals you as scum, so claiming an investigative role with useless results prevents us from confirming if your role is real or fake.
I think that's the best way to make my argument more clear.

I'll read your prior games when I have the time.

[Thesp]

Daycycle 5 Tallying of Troubleshooters

Chaotic_diablo

- 1 (The Fonz)

The Fonz

- 1 (The Central Scrutinizer)

Mr. Flay

- 1 (chaotic_diablo)

killajay

- 1 (Mr. Flay)

No Lynch

- 1 (killajay)

With 5 clone templates still with us, a vote of 3 is sufficient to present for the "usual treatment of traitors".

[The Central Scrutinizer]

unvote, vote: Mr. Flay

I know Day 5 isn't the time for gut feelings, but I have the feeling that I'm being completely snowed, and if I were scum, I probably would have otherwise dealt with an experienced player like Flay by now.

Sorry I can't do more atm but school is eating my lunch.

[Mr. Flay]

What the ****?

Unvote, OMGUS: TCS

- now is not the time for wild-ass ideas like "lynch Flay just in case". If you don't have a case, unvote NOW.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What the ****?

Unvote, OMGUS: TCS

- now is not the time for wild-ass ideas like "lynch Flay just in case". If you don't have a case, unvote NOW.

Why isn't now the time for it? This town is out of discussion and whoever the scum is is just letting the game peter out into an auto-win. This is something good, experienced scum does. I would expect any of the other players to be much more active as scum in lylo. I think the vote is perfectly good in a situation in which there are no clear suspects and barely any discussion of suspects.

[The Fonz]

I will definitely not vote anyone but CD or Flay today, since I believe TCS and therefore killajay was not last night's killer. I've set out my reasons for believing Flay over Diablo. The one thing that concerns me is that Flay's claim fits in SO nicely with my own.

Flay, is there anything in the wording of your PM that you think might hint at the ineffectiveness of your power?

[killajay]

Unvote

I have sat back and read day in and day out and one name stands out and that is

Vote: Flay

You may have some people fooled but not me. I know you are scum.

[Mr. Flay]

So killajay has hammered for the third time - surprise, surprise. On your heads be it... I'm free at last, free at last, thank Friend Computer, I'm free at last!

And Fonz: No, nothing in my PM, just the game flavor of an insane computer. I'm very curious to see the end-game wrap-up now...