Mini 480 - Boring Town Mafia *GAME OVER*

[YagamiLight]

Scum have an even better reason to stay alive, with just 2 of them. WHy must I believe so strongly? The way I see it, we need to be careful of mislynches, and I would rather not lynch the claimed cop as lynching the cop is never a really good idea. Samruc doesn't seem really make me see town or scum. Faeren claimed doc, another role I would prefer live. Boo, I'm getting a town feel. And you and TCS are basically proven. I see no good reason to lynch anyone, because I still see good possibilities for everyone to be town. I don't want town to lynch me (I would prefer not to be lynched period, but everyone seems set on it, not giving reasons to lynch me, only asking me my opinions for when I'm dead), and then look at who I pointed at, only to find them town as well.

[Samruc]

Yes, I think it's a safe assumption. But TCS was right - with two mafia left, we can afford one mislynch, and would thus autowin (if all claims are true) by lynching the remaining three players.

I find it odd that samruc is assuming all the claims are true

You misread my post - the "safe assumption" was that there are only two mafia left. Then I tried to explain TCS's logic, which in itself assumed the claims were true. You should know by this point that I don't believe FLOC's claim...

In fact, I think you all should go back and read FLOC's posts since the claim, especially Yagami who says he gets a town feel from him.

[YagamiLight]

I never said I get a town feel from him, I said I think he should live (along with Nanos and the other claimed) because it would be best not to loose those role. My point in my last two posts is I'm, not getting overly scummy feelings on anyone, and basically think we need more discussion. In order to try and help discussion, and if everyone's willing to give the time, I'm going to reread everyone anyhow, so Setael can be happy that I have someone I definitely want lynched. (Basically, I'm going to reread and do pbp's for everyone).

[Bookitty]

I would like to wait and hear what YagamiLight has to say. I don't think that could be a bad thing for town.

I would like Samruc to present his case against FLoC. I've been open about my doubts of both the doctor and the cop claims and I would like a different perspective on the situation.

I would like Nanosauromo to confirm to us that he isn't going to waste his investigation on TCS or Setael when we eventually go to night. My vote stays there until he does.

Sadly, I'm aware that the universe doesn't really care what I would like. But I remain cautiously optimistic nonetheless.

[Setael]

I think there are 2 options for Yagami not finding anyone suspicious.

1) He is scum and it is more helpful for him to be lynched than his scum buddy, because it's someone who has role claimed without being countered and is therefore less likely to be lynched.

2) He is town and really isn't suspicious of anyone.

I'm leaning toward #1. If I'm wrong and it's #2 then I think his reread & analysis will make that evident. Either way, anything he posts will be more helpful than saying he doesn't want anyone lynched.

I would like to wait and hear what YagamiLight has to say. I don't think that could be a bad thing for town.

I would like Samruc to present his case against FLoC. I've been open about my doubts of both the doctor and the cop claims and I would like a different perspective on the situation.

I would like Nanosauromo to confirm to us that he isn't going to waste his investigation on TCS or Setael when we eventually go to night.

I agree.

[Faeren Lord of Carlisle]

I suggest that I be investigated tonight.

[YagamiLight]

Okay, first, I realize I said pbp, but I think I realized something. When I say pbp I mean a reread and an analysis of only the scummy and towny posts by the players. I'm pretty sure normally it's a post by post analysis. Anyway, now that I've explained, I'm starting with bookitty (formerly heatherlou).
Okay, so as heatherlou, the first thing that comes out to me is the vote for hand banana for not talking when she hadn't been talking either (post 76). I would say this is slightly since she voted someone for doing something she was doing as well. The next thing was post 138, just the comment on liking what Daxam did, again only slightly scummy, but that's because she liked it for getting us to talk, which happened because people were suspicious about it, and it would seem to me following that logic you should like every scummy thing done since people talk about it. That's all from heatherlou, and only slightly scummy imo. When Bookitty replaces in I no longer see anything scummy , and get a townie vibe. Basically, I'm thinking she is most likely town because Those two things are only slightly scummy, I see a strong possibility of town doing them as well, and I just get a town vibe from Bookitty's posts.
Later today I'll post one for the two confirmed townies (TCS and Setael) together. I'm kind of busy, but I promise to get them in tonight, and maybe one of Samruc and FLoC, then finish up with Nanos and whoever (of Samruc and FLoC) is also left tomorrow morning.

[Bookitty]

Anything you think would be helpful, I would like to read, Yagami. Thanks for your input so far.

As long as it is not TCS or Setael, I don't care who is investigated tonight. But I would prefer Nanosauromo not tell us who he's going to investigate, because of the likelihood that that person would be NKed.

Faeren, do you have any theories as to why the scum might want to leave you alive?

[Nocmen]

Counting of the votes:

YagamiLight - 2(Setael, Nanosauromo)
Faeren Lord of Carlisle - 1 (Samruc)
Nanosauromo -1(Bookitty)

Not Voting - 3(Faeren Lord of Carlisle, YagamiLight, The Central Scrutinizer)

7 alive, 4 to lynch!

[YagamiLight]

Okay, I'm now going on to Setael (formerly luna) and TCS (formerly AtA, formerly Inarticulation).
Luna only posted 8 timess, not much content, but there was some, nothing to see here. Setael's second post (post 316) gives me a town vibe. He votes Daxam in this post, giving good reasons. A couple posts later (post 398) he posts his grading of posts by others. Here, I think he is trying to hard, could be town or scum, just trying to hard. I also believed, and still do, that in doing something like that (or like this) you should inlude everyone, not excluding the claimed. He advocates leting the doc live (posts 404 & 408). I agreed with him about this (maybe not so much anymore should he be scummy enough at this point in time of the game). Protown feel from that. (Side note, I like his joke in post 448, I laugh every time ). Later (post 491) he lists everyone who has the possibility to be scum, but leaves himself and Samruc out. How the post is wordedmakes me think it isn't who he thinks is possible to be scum, but a list of everyone who has claimed, and a list of those who haven't, minus himself and Samruc. I just think this is an odd post, because it's not really a scum list, just a list of names in no particular order (unless I missed it), He does continue to comment on the order of the unseen scum list. Also questions if mini's always have doc and cop or if scum could safe claim them. Thats what I gpot from him. Mostly a town read.
Inarticulation posted nothing that stands out (3 posts). AtA posted more, but again, nothing really stands out as a town or scum post. Setael looks about the same as AtA, with nothing that really stands out as town or scum. Basically town because of the Mason claim with a dead partner.
As an addition to this post, one of these two should be protected, because I think they are most likely next for NK, as they are both more or less confirmed.
Another addition, this took longer than I thought, and I wont get another one tonight, because my school decided to fix our internet tonight, and didn't tell us until a half hour

after

they started, so it's off and on.

[Setael]

Side note, I like his joke in post 448, I laugh every time

No matter how many times I tell you I'm a girl (in every game we're in together) you just refuse to use the right pronouns. I'll forgive you because you thought my joke was funny.

P.S. Going camping, no internet for 24 hours.

[YagamiLight]

I'm really upset with my school. They took internet down again this morning, but they say they're done, so no more of this, that makes me feel a bit better about them. Anyways, here's the finished product for today.
The biggest thing that stands out with Samruc is his want to lynch the doc. I understand doubting claims (especially since I've been doing it this whole time), but I don't advocate lynching the claimed, just remmebering that they may be false-claims. Before Faeren claims, nothing really stands out as pro or anti-town for Samruc. It is good content, but something both town and scum could and would do. One thing that does stand out after the claim is his post where he criticizes me for not fully and 100% trusting the mason claims, but at the same time says he doesn't trust the doc claim (post 403). The doc claim is a little more likely to be fake claimed, but this post gives me a scummy feel, because he decided he doesn't believe the doc claim, were I just don't 100% believe the mason claim. Just midly scummyto me, but not enough for a lynch.
As for Faeren, everything comes from who he replace, HB. The first thing is post 146, after the second quote. Brushing off what Simenon said with the comment about him making stuff up, when Simenon had quoted posts then asked questions/made comments about them. Also, his next post (post 180) where he doesn't even want to read Simenon's post because he is confirmed town. Seems to me that Scum wouldn't want to read them because hey wnt to find scummy behavoir in town that they can lynch, where the town is going to want to know what the confirmed thinks just as much as anyone else if not more (because as confirmed it is known to not be someone trying to remove town). With Faeren himself, nothing really stands out except his doc claim. I personally believe you should give a little leeway to a person, holding them to their predecessors actions, but not as strongly.
Nanos, the last of the people to cover. Up until he claims he lurked. He lurked so bad at one point that he quotes and comments on the mason claim, then his next post he doesn't remeber it. Lurking is not scummy in it's own right, but it does make it hard to get a town or scum read on the person. I'm suspicious of him because both of his targets have wound up dead. It is possible he was unlucky, but it is awfully unlucky. One thing I just noticed though, if he is cop, then he might be naive, as he got innocent with both results.

Note: Apologies Setael, you're a girl, I know that now (and again) and will try to remember. If I fail, forgive me, it happens all the time.

[Nanosauromo]

One thing I just noticed though, if he is cop, then he might be naive, as he got innocent with both results.

I got innocent on both results because both people who I investigated turned out to be innocent upon death.

[YagamiLight]

Yeah, but naive would get innocent on both of them as well.

[Nanosauromo]

So you're saying I could be naive because I got innocent results on two people who actually were innocent? I'm naive because I'm getting accurate results?

I'm not following your logic.

[Bookitty]

Nanosauromo, how about it? Will you promise not to waste an investigation on TCS or Setael tonight?

And I'm hoping still to hear from Samruc, before I post my thoughts on recent events.

[YagamiLight]

A naive cop only gets innocent results Nano, of course they would be innocent for the innocent, they would also be innocent should you investigate scum though.

[Nanosauromo]

Nanosauromo, how about it? Will you promise not to waste an investigation on TCS or Setael tonight?

Yes, I already know who I'm going after.

A naive cop only gets innocent results Nano, of course they would be innocent for the innocent, they would also be innocent should you investigate scum though.

If I'm naive, then there's probably a real cop. If this were true, he would have counterclaimed by now.

[Bookitty]

Thank you, Nanosauromo.

I'm still waiting on Samruc's comments on FLoC, but for now:

unvote

[Samruc]

Post incoming...

(Sorry for halting the game; I've been in bed with high fever (again!), will try to get back on track)

First a thing from Yagami:

I never said I get a town feel from him

Boo, I'm getting a town feel.

***

Then on to my case against FLoC. I'll go post by post, beginning with the claim: (I think the case up to the claim is documented well enough)

sighs. Alright guys, you outed me, both for my bad play and my predecessor's. I'm the doctor.

Honest or not? That's what it comes down to...

Oap, haven't gotten around to posting. fyi, I protected simenon. I chose him because he was a mason who is an experienced town player. I agree that votes piled on Daxam far too fast, but we were on deadline...however, still, I think that we should look at those who piledrived the lynch. Let's look into them.[/table]

Then why didn't you? Let's look at who were on the wagon: (Nano, Setael, FLoC, AtA/TCS, Simenon, HeatherLou/Bookitty, IH.) Four confirmed townies, himself, Nano and Bookitty. Did he go after one of those? Nope->

I agree that FL is pretty scumtastic.

Inconsistent with above, and too short to be helpful.

Then some arguing with me:

1) why do you doubt my claim? I also think that FL is scummier than HC, but that's my gut. I don't know how I can clear myself w/o a vig.
***
2) Do you guys really want to lose our doctor? Especially waste a lynch on him? Crazy I say, crazy.
***
3) Honestly samruc, you're the scummiest guy in my eyes right now. Your only suspect is me, and you're the only one. You don't believe me, because of your mysterious "reread", and you post no evidence that I'm lying, because there is none. sir, I am NOT lying. I think that you pushing me is actually pretty scummy, and no this isn't omgus. This is you really pushing the ddoc here. Vote Samruc.

1) I doubt your claim because you are spreading suspicions in all directions without making a single case yourself.
2) This post is pointless. If we didn't believe your claim at first, this kind of reinforcing wouldn't alter that fact.
3) Suddenly I'm the scummiest one. Omgus or not, I'm not impressed.

And look who is scummy now:

Woah, I had forgotten nano was playing. I agreee with your conclusion Simenon. I agree that his non-committal and total non-content is scummy. In short, I forgot Nano existed. His content has been scummy -> non-existant, so I'm going to go ahead and

Vote nanosaurumo.

***
I agree with lynching nanoscum.

unvote, vote FL

-I did a reread, and agree with the case on him.

Ok, this was after the cop claim, so I can't say anything about him switching votes. Some reasoning would have been interesting though - FLoC, did/do you believe the cop claim?

Fl, that last post was rediculous. You're at -1, and instead of defending yourself, you post some bs about...nothing. A non-content post does not a defense make.

This is the post I like most from FLoC. It's to the point, and relevant. (I could try to make a point of the fact that his best attack hit a townie, but that would be making a tell of a non-tell; anyone can be wrong)

I protected the cop. Who did you investigate Nano?

Not surprisingly he protects the cop. Then a relevant question, not much to say about this one.

good job setael! I want to congratulate you on your awesome vig choice.

To be honest, I didn't think much about this post either, at the time. FLoC has been flying under everyone's radar pretty much since his claim, which makes it easy to forget about him, so I'm glad TCS highlighted this. FLoC's congratulations to the vig just seems like a cheap way of looking more townish without adding any content.

samruc, you seem to be thinking as scum quite a lot here, and rather convincingly.

What do you want to say with this? That it's a scumtell to put yourself in scum's shoes? Cause I agree that it *could* be a way for scum to introduce wifom-arguments into the game, but then say that. Now it just looks like you getting nervous I'm getting too close to the truth in my speculations.

the problem with setael's plan is that Nano could do some bizarre thing like your example, then claim that whatever code he used shows he planned to investigate who turns up dead. For example, setael's code, nobody could know but the person who posted it. Like this "code" qwertyuioplkjhgfdsazxcvbnmmnbvcxzasdfghjklpoiuytrewq"->repeat ad nauseum will have the name of everyone in it. Or, if he uses numbers, many different meanings can be inferred from numbers, and he could just adjust what he claims it said depending on who's killed.

No one suggested he should use qwertyuiop... as a code. I would have no problem with using the same kind of code as Setael suggested. We could even demand that he uses this very game as a basis for that code, maybe using some kind of twist to the code. (Nothing complicated - starting post counting from day 2, counting letters from end of posts or something like that. Try to crack that one as scum, or try to find a code that includes all players...) It annoys me a bit that FLoC tries to discredit this idea; I think it's quite good.

About Nano being a "clumsy" cop, killing instead of investigating:

I'd say that it's possible, but patently rediculous of the mod to do that. It's a nice trick, and really swingy. I'd believe it this game though, considering that I'm still here.

FLoC was the only one to reinfoce its possibility (Nano was the one who brought it up). Frankly, would the mod give us a setup where scum has no control over the NK? That sure sounds ridiculous to me too...

I suggest that I be investigated tonight.

Why don't you stop being lazy, and actually make us *believe* you are doc instead of waisting (from your point of view) an investigation on you...

***

So, as a summary:

* Pretty much the only reason FLoC survived D1 was the claim.
* During D2 there was some vote-jumping from FLoC, mostly with no case at all.
* Both D2 and D3 FLoC's posts have been very short and uncontributing (averaging no more than a line or two each)

I think our doc-FLoC has done pretty much nothing to deserve getting away as easily as he does, especially when most other people are contributing the way they do.

Scum? I think so.

[Nocmen]

TCS has been prodded.

[YagamiLight]

Samruc, the first is saying no town feel from FLoC, and the second says a town feel from Boo.

[YagamiLight]

Hit submit instead of preview.
Also, Samruc, when did Boo become

confirmed

town?

[Bookitty]

Okay. I don't buy into the nebulous "real doctor" theory, wherein the Mafia would not be willing to try to kill the cop, because there might be a real doctor protecting him. I think that if there were a "real doctor", said person would have counterclaimed FLoC. I don't think FLoC is the real doctor, either, because I don't see why the Mafia wouldn't have killed him. But this is conjecture on my part. It's WIFOM... scum might think, "But if we leave him alive, they'll waste a lynch on him..." So I have no certainty that I'm right. And FLoC hasn't really posted much lately, so I haven't got a lot to work with.

I'm on more certain territory with Nanosauromo, because he's been more willing to discuss things.

Now I'm fairly certain that Yagami is scum. If he was innocent, the real scum would have hammered him by now.

Either that or the two remaining scum are already voting for him. (i.e., Setael and Bookitty)

This is just a mistake. I know I'm not scum, and Setael has pretty well confirmed her role as well. So when I apply Nano's own logic, either he is scum, Yagami is scum, or they both are. Then I'm left with thinking, who has acted more suspiciously? And that is Nano, no question (two investigations of conveniently dead people? It COULD be coincidence, but... is it?)

Then this retraction of his previous statement:

I wasn't saying that Setael and Bookitty were scum. I was merely pointing out that they were the two non-Nano people voting for him.

This isn't at all what he said earlier. He said either Yagami is scum, or two scums are voting for him (mentioning me and Setael by name) and this (to me, anyway) looks like he's distancing from his own statement, having realised the implications.

I'm currently trying to figure out the possible consequences of lynching each of the possible candidates (with the caveat that I'm not considering the possibility of lynching TCS or Setael). I'll hopefully have more later. If you see mistakes in my reasoning, please pick it apart, I'm by no means certain I'm right.

[Setael]

There is another reason that would motivate mafia to not NK the doc. If nano is scum, the doc is no threat to the mafia because the doc will likely be protecting the claimed cop. Therefore, it would make more sense to take out a mason and leave the doc alive. As long as nano is alive, they can fairly safely NK other confirmed townies, knowing the doc will protect the cop. And, like Bookitty said, there's always a chance we'll mislynch the doc since he's not getting NK'd, but we wouldn't likely mislynch the confirmed townie they are able to NK instead. Especially since we have a few confirmed townies, I would suggest that FLoC think twice about who he protects tonight, rather than automatically protecting the cop. At least that way you keep 'em guessing.