Open 46 - Strawberry (Game Over!), before 508

[Zeppo]

Ok, so last game I played I was scum with White. He acted EXACTLY the same as he is now, which made me suspicious of him. I then went and searched out his other games and it seems he acts this way when scum and not as townie. Specifically, I have seen the giving an ultimatum before rather than hammering in the hopes that someone else will hammer to take suspicion off of him.

FOS: White

Since we need 6 votes to lynch and there is only 7 townies left... that means we basically need 6 of 7 townies to vote on a scum, since I doubt any scum will vote for their scumbuddies, unless they are going to sacrifice one, but we would have to have a bandwagon on one to get them to do that anyway. We NEED to make sure we have the right guy this time.

See, to me this does sound like you're encouraging bandwagoning. By FoS'ing White but not voting for him you could be trying to start a bandwagon on White without looking too suspicious by casting the first vote.

Neraren is up on my scum list too since he is really lurking. My other suspicions lie on desisted mostly, followed by Max and skitzer. Zeppo seems a little suspicious but less than the others. Mr Mean seems on the fence leaning toward town for me. Boing and killerbob seem town to me (so far).

Notice that this post came before Max's one where he mentioned bread crumbing. What was it at this stage that made you suspicious of him? Because it seems to me like you might just be trying to push for a lynch on Max and using the bread crumbs post he made as an excuse.

In fact this whole paragraph is full of accusations without any justifications (against myself, against desisted, against Max, against skitzer and somewhat against Mr Mean). What had I done that you considered suspicious exactly?

The only accusation that was backed up was against Neraren because he was lurking. Boing and killerbob are lurking too but why do they seem town to you while Neranen ends up at the top of your list?

Asides from yourself there were 9 other players in the game at the point you made this post and you say are suspicious of

seven

other players (including Mr Mean). Seven out of nine! This really doesn't look right to me this looks very scummy.

Vote: competentpsycho

[Mr. Mean]

Maybe I am missing something here (in that case please spell it out for me) but I am pretty sure these are our 3 scum at this point.

So rather than attack the 3 that you are pretty sure are our 3 scum, you choose to attack me. Hum.

I am very sure on skitz and Mean. Max is debatable at the moment. Then you go and do shit that I find anti-town. What am I supposed to do?[/quote]
Hmm,

MAYBE YOU SHOULD VOTE FOR ONE OF THE PEOPLE YOUR SO SURE OF!

If you are pro- town, then vote for someone that would benifet the town! Instead of doing that, you vote for someone that is voting for you. Didn't you say it was important to vote for scum at this point? But instead of that you decide to linch scum next round for your own needs.

[White]

My opinion of the d3/cp thing.

CP is going off the deep end and seems to be having a fit of some sort.
d3 needs a lot of effort to actually get him to cooperate.

[d3sisted]

I'll give em hell before I cooperate.

[White]

You do realize that most of the people you're going to be giving hell to are just townies right?

[killerbob]

Sorry guys, I have gotten behind in the thread. I will get back with some content hopefully by tonight.

[Erg0]

Vote Count

competentpsycho 3 (Mr. Mean, skitzer, Zeppo)
skitzer 1 (competentpsycho)
Mr. Mean 1 (White)
Neraren 1 (d3sisted)

Not Voting 4 (Boing, killerbob, Max, Neraren)

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

[competentpsycho]

See, to me this does sound like you're encouraging bandwagoning. By FoS'ing White but not voting for him you could be trying to start a bandwagon on White without looking too suspicious by casting the first vote.

Notice that this post came before Max's one where he mentioned bread crumbing. What was it at this stage that made you suspicious of him? Because it seems to me like you might just be trying to push for a lynch on Max and using the bread crumbs post he made as an excuse.

In fact this whole paragraph is full of accusations without any justifications (against myself, against desisted, against Max, against skitzer and somewhat against Mr Mean). What had I done that you considered suspicious exactly?

The only accusation that was backed up was against Neraren because he was lurking. Boing and killerbob are lurking too but why do they seem town to you while Neranen ends up at the top of your list?

Asides from yourself there were 9 other players in the game at the point you made this post and you say are suspicious of

seven

other players (including Mr Mean). Seven out of nine! This really doesn't look right to me this looks very scummy.

Vote: competentpsycho

No, I wasn't trying to bandwagon on white - I was trying to get other people's opinions on him as he is hard to read and at the same time maybe get a reaction out of him. He doesn't seem as scummy today, maybe it is just his playstyle, but no one else has real suspicions about him. I have concluded that my efforts are better spent scumhunting elsewhere.

I only said Neraren was up on my scum list, not at the top - just from the lurking (at this point I had only little suspicions on people - mostly lurking). Desisted (who was at the top with white at that moment) seems like his actions were anti-town, and still are - possibly a playstyle but seems fishy. Everyone else was mostly for lurking and Max and skitzer just seemed fishy when I reread the thread at the start of day 2, along with the lurking. yours was for lurking so much, along with Mr Mean. Boing plays like a newbie but hasn't made any big mistakes that I have seen - just lurks. Same with killerbob. I would like to see them post more though.

And I didn't say that I thought those 7 were scum - I was just putting my opinions on everyone out there.

Maybe I am missing something here (in that case please spell it out for me) but I am pretty sure these are our 3 scum at this point.

So rather than attack the 3 that you are pretty sure are our 3 scum, you choose to attack me. Hum.

I am very sure on skitz and Mean. Max is debatable at the moment. Then you go and do shit that I find anti-town. What am I supposed to do?

Hmm,

MAYBE YOU SHOULD VOTE FOR ONE OF THE PEOPLE YOUR SO SURE OF!

If you are pro- town, then vote for someone that would benifet the town! Instead of doing that, you vote for someone that is voting for you. Didn't you say it was important to vote for scum at this point? But instead of that you decide to linch scum next round for your own needs.

What the hell are you talking about - I did vote the person I am most sure of (skitz and if I could you). I never changed my vote to d3sisted or said that I was sure he is scum - I just said his actions seem anti-town at the moment. That was my reason for him questioning why I FOS'd him and pointed out his scummy actions. The thing I said earlier is that the scum would try to get a bandwagon going on a townie, and not to go along with bandwagons, then you come along and vote with no reason, skitz follows suit trying to say that I was saying TO bandwagon, then you come back with a "I agree - thats the reason I voted him" on top of that. You did exactly what I was expecting scum to do today. Thats why I am sure you and skitz are scum. From the looks of it you may be succeeding. Everyone else, if I do get lynched look back at what I have been saying - Mean and skitz are trying to bandwagon on a townie with bullshit for reasoning.

White you are good at putting your opinion out there and reasons why. Can you PLEASE post on me since I can't seem to get a straight reason from anyone else. Is it all just these misinterpretations of my posts and twisting of my words?

[Mr. Mean]

What the hell are you talking about - I did vote the person I am most sure of (skitz and if I could you).
Oh, sorry. I missread and thought you were voting for someone else.

[Boing]

Max is really bothering me. He hasn't posted much (but then who am I to talk - sorry about that, it's been a busy week) but when he has done it's suspicion rousing and normally invokes terrible, terrible logic that seems either scummy or newbieish. I want to see more.

Same with Mr Mean. My thought was that either he was scum or a newbie (or a scum newbie), probably the second. Lately however he's been more aggressive, I don't know whether this is a playstyle thing due to increased confidence or because he's scum and thinks he can get away with attacking people more openly, like in this post:

[quote="Mr. Mean]Hmm,

MAYBE YOU SHOULD VOTE FOR ONE OF THE PEOPLE YOUR SO SURE OF!

If you are pro- town, then vote for someone that would benifet the town! Instead of doing that, you vote for someone that is voting for you. Didn't you say it was important to vote for scum at this point? But instead of that you decide to linch scum next round for your own needs.[/quote]

Competentpsycho's logic about the bandwagon thing that's been attacked seems reasonable to me so I'm not going to address that. However, I do think it's too early too assume that you know who our 3 scum are, especially in a game where there's a few people being inactive and not posting who could well be lurker scum. Instead there's a good chance you're just infighting with other townies. In addition, you're saying pretty much everyone is giving out scum vibes, which either means you're being inconsistent in saying that 3 of them are the most scummy, or you're actively jumping between suspicions in an attempt to keep them off yourself. Either way, I don't like it.

I can't get a good read on White, but at the moment he seems town to me. I could be terribly wrong, but nothing's leapt out at me for the moment and I'll take a step back if it does.

I'll give em hell before I cooperate.

This is not productive. You're being far too hostile and confrontational, and while sticking to one person as scum is normally a town move, you're blowing the suspicion on CP way too far. Getting aggressive about it tends to cloud your judgement and if you're convinced enough that someone's scum, you'll start seeing signs of that no matter what they post. So cool down a bit. It's not benefitting the town at all and I'm inclined to think it's being done on purpose to try and force a bandwagon based on seemingly scummy behaviour while being scum yourself.

It's hard to decide who to vote for, but I'm gonna go with

vote: d3sisted

[d3sisted]

competentpsycho called me out, so I responded. I brought my case to the table, threw down an FoS, and that's the end of it. You on the other hand are essentially voting me because I FoS'd someone I found suspicious after having laid relevant evidence and justification. And you're telling me my judgment is clouded? Get your story straight, please.

Currently I am waiting for neraren to say something. I'll see where it goes from there.

[White]

Alright CP, let me try. First opinions without doing an isolatoin read through on you is that your temper kinda goes all over the place as was demonstrated earlier. However despite some people saying you're making no sense I feel most (not all) of your posts have been coherent and don't seem faked. Your emotional display earlier did not look faked at all. It didn't look justified, but it didn't look fake.

As for town or scum? That'll require an isolation read through which i'll try to get done tonight. It won't be a pbpa, just a read through of you. I would just like to remind you that though it's entirely possible, the two main suspects of yours have the "Townsperson" title under their name. Which means you may be mistaking newbieness for scumminess. Just a caution, take it as you will.

[White]

d3sisted, read the post next time, that's not at all what he's saying.

[d3sisted]

No, YOU read the post. He is calling me on being "aggressive" hence "clouding my judgment". Go through my points in 220, you'll find that everything there holds true, without the usual adhoms and whatnot. That post is about as level-headed as you'll ever find me on mafiascum.

[competentpsycho]

Hmmm... that know who our 3 scum post was multipurpose and not true. I am very sure of skitz and Mr Mean. Max was a way to get people to talk. First it was to get max to talk about the breadcrumb comment since it made no sense to me and out of the 3 (my top 3) he seemed least suspicious. He's not out from under the microscope yet but I do not have enough to vote him for it, especially since desisted is being so anti-town. The second to try to get those who have been quiet to come out and call me on it, possibly providing defenses (though unlikely) for skitz and Mr Mean, just in case I am wrong. As of yet I have seen nothing defending them, only attacking me for pointing out what they have done.

Mr Mean seems to not read the posts very well and not provide his own reasoning for what he does. Very suspicious. I believe he is scum at this point and would be willing to vote him. Then he went and said 'Oh, sorry I misread what was fairly obvious' (I am paraphrasing of course - see his last post for what exactly he said). This seems like a shitty attempt at recovering from a bad mistake of completely making shit up to get more people to bandwagon me. It is possible he was mistaken, but with the other things he has done today, it adds up to scum. At the very least these are actions that in no way benefit town, as we need to pay attention to everything to catch the scum. On the other hand a mafia member has to use deception, trying to turn the town on the good guys. I did this last game with white, leading the town around by its nose against Albert (Newbie 463 - link in earlier post). Mafia will use arguments full of holes.

skitz already has my vote for turning what I said around to be completely opposite and then being blatantly hypocritical about his argument (which was my statement turned around on me) by bandwagonning me.

My suspicions (only suspicions) for the partner at this point are desisted and max for reasons I have stated before, and neraren for lurking and not defending himself (this could be cleared up though when he posts). I am also not ruling out the possibility that the others who post very little are scum, just don't have much evidence - you guys need to voice your opinions. White so far seems somewhat unreadable, but for now I am thinking a townie.

Desisted - I am not saying your judgement is clouded, just that you seem very anti-town from your actions. Could be your playstyle is just to be an asshole to people. You seem hard to read because of this. Either way your actions do not benefit the town when you act like this.

[d3sisted]

Desisted - I am not saying your judgement is clouded, just that you seem very anti-town from your actions. Could be your playstyle is just to be an asshole to people. You seem hard to read because of this. Either way your actions do not benefit the town when you act like this.

Dood, the cloudy judgment thing was in response to Boing. As for my playstyle, yeah, I like to stick my neck out.

[White]

Alright, reread ya and you're not acting like you did when you were scum. In addition you actually seem to be participating and trying to get conversation flowing. Leaning town.

I don't like how you said you were going to look into d3sisted if corn came up scum and now you're suspicious of him after corn came up town. You also made a post earlier saying you were on the fence about Mean and leaning town but now you see him as definitely scum. What changed?

[White]

I don't understand why i'm unreadable, bleh.

D3sisted, being a jerk is not a compliment. I did read your post, it's...WRONG.

[d3sisted]

His post, not mine foo.

[competentpsycho]

Hmmm, well I'm not really looking at desisted as scum - just anti-town as I have said a million times before because of his actions today, not D1 (just seemed connected to Corn then) - which could be scum, but may also be a playstyle. Mean on the other hand I was on the fence on because he wasn't participating much. Now that hes talking, he seems scum. This seems like the classic reason scum would lurk - to not make mistakes like Mean seems to have (assuming I am right and he is scum).

[White]

No, YOU read the post. He is calling me on being "aggressive" hence "clouding my judgment". Go through my points in 220

I did read the post, which is how I could say that you were wrong. Then you directed me to post 220 which is yours and I said I did read your post and it's wrong.

lrn 2 b rite

[d3sisted]

Then stop being the hypocrite and point out how it's "WRONG".

[competentpsycho]

skitz, zeppo, neraren, max - Say something - you are not participating much at all - one post every now and then just tells us that you didn't die IRL. Please contribute more as lurking like this is anti-town since you are not helping. Boing, and Mean - you are close to this category as you were lurking earlier - stay in participation.

[competentpsycho]

Ok, so I looked up some previous games of d3sisted's. Found a game thats over (newbie 443) where d3sisted was not nearly as much of an ass and was town. Though he still did shit to hurt the town (fake claiming cop as a townie). Furthermore, I reread all of Mean and skitz's posts and Mean and skitz don't really say anything about his blantant anti-town asshole attitude, or vote him. Skitz says one thing about him early on with what seems like a strange tone and giving him a FOS. This doesn't necessarilly mean anything as they both lurked like crazy D1 and said very little. Why the change from lurking though - maybe a more experienced scum partner told them to stop? Don't know. I don't like this as it seems like a possible connection with d3sisted. I will reread all of d3sisted's posts soon and state what I find. Again - this is based on the assumption that I am right about skitz and Mean, so if anyone has input supporting their innocence speak before I make more of an idiot of myself.

[competentpsycho]

Thinking about this again - d3sisted is very unreadable and I cannot base a connection on the fact that the two lurkers didn't implicate him, as they really have only implicated me the whole game other than one jumping on the Corn BW. I am still going to re-read his posts later to try to get a read on him though.