The War to End All Freaktowns: GAME OVER

[Jex]

What's scummy about changing my mind? It's not like I nothing has happened to change my mind. It didn't come out of the clear blue.

I never said that you changing your mind was scummy. I said I don't understand why the town is so blindly following you. The followers are scummy in my eyes.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

I'm extremly suspicious of MoS trying to control someone's votes.

[ibaesha]

Yag: Yep, I believe that Kilroy is a lying scumbag. I have been voting him and in fact was the first to pressure him and vote for him. I have no problem with lynching him or moving my vote back to him. However, Kilroy has been sitting near lynch for quite a while and it

hasn't happened

. People are merely waiting for deadline to come around and are either not voting for him or are sitting their votes on him and doing nothing else. It's quite ridiculous that in order to reach a lynch we must wait for a deadline. So, I can either sit here with my vote on Kilroy (and do nothing) until deadline comes or I can poke other places. At this point Kilroy is going to be lynched at deadline according to deadline lynch rules regardless of if my vote is there or not.

There's a good case against Tautology and sure, we could wait until tomorrow to discuss it, but why? What do we do until then? Nothing? There is absolutely nothing wrong with applying pressure -today-.

Tell you what though, if people stop sitting on their asses and doing nothing and put Kilroy to lynch -1 before deadline hits, I'm more than happy to hammer. Otherwise, I think I'll spend what's left of this day pressuring elsewhere rather than doing -nothing-.

Jex: I'm not sure who you were referring to 'blindly following MoS', but if I was included in that, you're very wrong. I agree with MoS that people are using their Kilroy votes as an excuse to do nothing and let deadline just happen. I disagree with MoS that Kilroy isn't likely scum and is just being an ass. I agree with him that tautology is highly suspicious, and have made my own observations and case against tautology. You can choose to ignore it, but it's there.

K-scope: MoS is definately trying to lead the town. He's been doing it all day. I suppose you could perceive that he's trying to control votes but in the end, our votes are our own. Anyone who uses MoS as a future excuse for why or where they placed their votes is going to be highly suspect in my mind. FTR, though, I don't find it suspicious when a person tries to lead a town. I don't know if a pro-town MoS has ever led a town to victory before, but I've seen it done by others, including myself. (Glork specifically comes to mind and he doesn't have the award for Best Mafia Catcher for nothing). I know it's supposed to be some sort of 'scum tell' when someone is leading a town, but I very much disagree. And out of the 38+ games I've played on MS, I've never seen scum use this tactic successfully. Only town.

[Jex]

@ Ibby. I really wasn't meaning you. You have followed MoS on things, but you've been pretty good at explaining your actions thus far. There are some that are just following the popular vote, or doing what they're told.

Andy comes to mind when I talk of this:

I was about to vote for his lying before reading Jex's post. I agree with her doubts on the reasons of KScope's wagon, I really couldn't see them (at least not at first reading)

For the scope lynch until he sees my post, then changes his mind.

After a re-reread I don't like BM's reactions, but only reactions are not enough for pointing him as scum. What pisses me is this Kilroy thing that doesn't make sense to me. I will say nothing about anyone else right now before thinking decently.

BTW:

Vote: Kilroy

Thinks BM is scummy, but votes Kilroy to join the wagon, saying that reactions alone can't catch scum (but isn't it their reactions that tell us they are scum?)

How in Earth you read my mind to know I was confused? I merely said that I haven't payed enough attention to anyone to build up a guilt/innocence case. As far as I know, it is scummy to throw something at anyone without a good case, while investigating logically is pro-town, isn't it?

Throws out the confused defense for people to take it or leave it.

His next post clarifies that he is voting Kilroy for lying.

What MoS says is very true, I haven't paid attention to Taut, now that you mention it.

UNVOTE

But Kilroy still seems scum to me. Lemme check what we have about Taut before voting back.

This one is what got my attention. MoS said that scum are most likley sitting on Kilroy, and then right after Andy decided to change his vote. He says that MoS make a good point about the scum (which is true. I wouldn't doubt that at least one scum is sitting on there, if not more) and seem in a hurry to be off the Kilroy wagon, while still leaving suspicion on Kilroy. My question is, why unvote in order to look at Taut unless you have something to hide?

I could be completely over analyzing here, but it got my attention, and therefore I'm sharing.

[ibaesha]

So when you said 'the town' you meant Andy?

You seemed to approve of Tar's blatant following of MoS.

Do you really think your BM vote is productive right now? I'm curious because you're among those people not voting for Kilroy that has voiced suspicions of him and even put him in your top three. Do you believe that we should just wait around for a deadline enforced lynch? And if so, how is that beneficial to the town? Also, If you have such a problem with people unvoting Kilroy, why isn't your vote on him?

[Mastermind of Sin]

[quote="Jex"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]What's scummy about changing my mind? It's not like I nothing has happened to change my mind. It didn't come out of the clear blue.[/quote]

I never said that you changing your mind was scummy. I said I don't understand why the town is so blindly following you. The followers are scummy in my eyes.[/quote]

[quote="Jex"]MoS is continously saying one person is scummy, only to change his mind.[/quote]

What was the point of this comment, then?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I'm extremly suspicious of MoS trying to control someone's votes.[/quote]

Nice OMGUS.

[the silent speaker]

Not every reciprocal suspicion is OMGUS, MOS. One could just as easily ask why you are so desperate to defend Kilroy.

I think Kilroy is scummy for his actions, and even in the event that he turns up town, there will be a

lot

of information from his lynch, both from the people on (and off) his bandwagon and the interactions between him and other people early in the game. With the deadline in two days,

unvote, vote: Kilroy

. I have no strong opinion on Tautology either way but I don't expect him to get nine votes before deadline.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Not every reciprocal suspicion is OMGUS, MOS. One could just as easily ask why you are so desperate to defend Kilroy.

His comment about me is a very weak reason, so I can only assume he felt threatened and attacked me back.

I think Kilroy is scummy for his actions, and even in the event that he turns up town, there will be a

lot

of information from his lynch, both from the people on (and off) his bandwagon and the interactions between him and other people early in the game. With the deadline in two days,

unvote, vote: Kilroy

. I have no strong opinion on Tautology either way but I don't expect him to get nine votes before deadline.

And this is exactly what scum would do.

Let's lynch Tautology, people. Kilroy may

possibly

be scum, but he's not the play for today. The "evidence" against him so far is higly inconclusive, since he's shown this behavior in the past. Just because you don't like him isn't a reason to vote him. Ibby is about the only person who has actually bothered to respond to me about this, everyone else is just riding by and staying silent, or (in TSS's case) ignoring it and jumping on the wagon anyways. This wagon is a recipe for disaster.

[Tarhalindur]

Not every reciprocal suspicion is OMGUS, MOS. One could just as easily ask why you are so desperate to defend Kilroy.

I think Kilroy is scummy for his actions, and even in the event that he turns up town, there will be a

lot

of information from his lynch, both from the people on (and off) his bandwagon and the interactions between him and other people early in the game. With the deadline in two days,

unvote, vote: Kilroy

. I have no strong opinion on Tautology either way but I don't expect him to get nine votes before deadline.

It's been a long time since I've seen the "information lynch" argument. I consider it a strong scumtell (it absolutely reeks of scum trying to push along a townie mislynch without getting called on it).

Heck, I consider it voteworthy.

Unvote, Vote: TSS

[ibaesha]

Wow, I had forgotten TSS was even in this game.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Guys, just decide on one of Tautology/TSS, and do it quickly. Already the scum are using the deadline excuse to push through a lynch on Kilroy.

Ibby, is that the best you can do? You forgot? So what? So did everyone else? That doesn't give us any insight on how you feel about TSS's recent jump onto the Kilroy wagon.

[Andycyca]

Sorry, limited access 'til monday.

[ibaesha]

MoS, I'm contemplating what that means. It definately means that TSS has slipped under the radar. However, recall that I said:

Tell you what though, if people stop sitting on their asses and doing nothing and put Kilroy to lynch -1 before deadline hits, I'm more than happy to hammer.

So while TSS's vote does look like a convenient deadline vote, at least he's on record for making a committment to the wagon. I'm actually more concerned with the people who are just sitting on it and no longer posting, just waiting for deadline.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ibby, you're just encouraging people to sit on the Kilroy wagon with stuff like that. Everyone knows that no lynch is bad, but I'm not willing to compromise. I would *not* hammer Kilroy. I want Kilroy/TSS lynched, and that's all I'll settle for. I'm not going to give people room to think they are safe on the Kilroy wagon.

[ibaesha]

Are you forgetting that I think Kilroy is scum? We disagree on that. And will continue to until he's proven one way or the other. Either way, one of us is going to be wrong.

There's not going to be a no lynch. Kilroy has had plenty of votes for a deadline enforced lynch for quite some time. I think that a full lynch would be more telling, therefore, yes, I'm willing to hammer. Now, I agree with you about tautology, and have voted him, but I think that you started this push kind of late. Perhaps if you hadn't been so damn stubborn about getting the claims and voting lurkers who were going to be replaced, this wouldn't have happened. Just sayin'.

[Kinetic]

Honestly MOS, I could see MOSscum making this play against Taut for two reasons. One, you could be trying to distance yourself from a townie lynch and start setting up a Day 2 lynch or Two) Kilroy could be your scum partner and you're trying to avert his lynch.

That being said, I can't see MOStown being

this

certain that Kilroy is not scum. Unless there is something you're not telling the rest of us.

If Kilroy was not a viable lynch target, I think I would vote Taut, but I'm feeling sure enough in my analysis at this point to think that Kilroy has a better chance of being scum than Taut. It is also certainly possible they're scum together, but there is something intangible that is telling me that Taut isn't the right play today.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Honestly MOS, I could see MOSscum making this play against Taut for two reasons. One, you could be trying to distance yourself from a townie lynch and start setting up a Day 2 lynch or Two) Kilroy could be your scum partner and you're trying to avert his lynch.

*shrug* I can't really fight theories. Anything I could say would just be called WIFOM.

That being said, I can't see MOStown being

this

certain that Kilroy is not scum. Unless there is something you're not telling the rest of us.

It's more that I'm so much more sure of Tautology, AND the behavior of the people on the Kilroy wagon should be setting off alarm bells in the heads of any protown player.

If Kilroy was not a viable lynch target, I think I would vote Taut, but I'm feeling sure enough in my analysis at this point to think that Kilroy has a better chance of being scum than Taut. It is also certainly possible they're scum together, but there is something intangible that is telling me that Taut isn't the right play today.

There is something VERY tangible telling all of us that Kilroy isn't the right play today.

[Kinetic]

[quote]KaleiÐoscøpe, Fritzler, YagamiLight, MissMoo, Kinetic, Mariyta, soupfly, theopor_COD, Aimee, ibaesha, Andycyca[/quote]

Well I think the only way for me to justify switching to Taut would be to analyze the Kilroy wagon and try and figure out who are the scummiest players on board. As such, let's start elimination people here.

Fritz: Although I haven't heard from him much since, I can pretty much sum up the two main reasons that he is on the wagon. Ibby and Survivor.

KD: I really don't like his play, and if I wasn't relatively sure he was town I'd have scum alarms going off in my head.

YL: Just active enough to justify his votes.

Mariyata: I'm still unsure what I think of her. Another that seems just active enough to justify her vote.

Ibby: I feel that her reasons are the truest toward the Kilroy lynch.

Andy: A relative newcomer to the wagon and also seems to have strong enough motives.

So eliminating these 6 from the wagon, and myself, we're left with:

[quote] MissMoo, soupfly, theopor_COD, Aimee[/quote]

After a re-read of LLee and COD I'm feeling fairly good about his reasons.

Aimee I'm a little more concerned about. Doing a little active lurking, her vote seems to be rather flimsy early in the day. After doing a little reading up on her, I think this might be at best a null tell, but I still would like for her to come forward and be a little more active before the day ends.

I am VERY concerned with Soupfly's behavior. Having been in a game where Soup was town and I was scum, I would expect him to act a lot more active and be much more aggressive. He is supporting theories that I am pretty sure he wouldn't support as town. His vote is very flimsy throughout the day, and he prefers to latch onto other people's theories instead of searching for his own.

Fos:Soupfly

MissMoo I feel similar to how I feel about Aimee. I'd like to see a little more participation but I also don't have a strong feeling of scum from her yet.

-----

So the last thing I've decided to do is relook at Kilroy's behavior. Honestly I was shocked by what I found.

[quote="Kilroy8675309"]I'm all right with an item claim.[/quote]

[quote="Kilroy8675309"]It's funny, you made such a big deal about not claiming your items that, now that you have... I don't feel like unvoting you.

Pick another person.[/quote]

[quote="Kilroy8675309"]Claiming the item gives away my shop, and I'd rather not do that at this point in time.[/quote]

[quote="Kilroy8675309"]I... never pushed for an item claim. Thanks for trying, though. I just went along with it.[/quote]

...

Confirm Vote:Kilroy

I thought I might find something that would sway me to vote Taut... but honestly I'm much more sure of Kilroy being scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't really see the contradiction in those quoted posts. When you think about it, it just doesn't have a "he's sinister scum plotting to ruin us all!" feel behind it.

[Jex]

You forgot these beauties:

Dude, MoS was saying that item claiming was going to catch scum. Catching scum > my desire to keep my items secret. I intend to speak up at the beginning of things that I disagree with - hence me voicing my opinions about item goal claiming.

So... yeah, I don't think the slip is that big.

This is before it becomes his turn to claim, where he then makes a 180 and doesn't want to claim his items as it would give away his shop.

I am currently holding but a single item. I have had other item(s) in the past, but I do not have them anymore, because I used them.

From my understanding no one could use an item last night unless it was passed to them. Am I correct? or way off base?

After rereading Kilroy,

unvote vote kilroy

[Fritzler]

Fritz: Although I haven't heard from him much since, I can pretty much sum up the two main reasons that he is on the wagon. Ibby and Survivor.

Yup.

Mainly survivor though.

[theopor_COD]

Kilroy hasn't posted for two weeks. Despite being active before hand, I'm wary of Tautology as I pointed out in my original entry post, page 28 or something but my vote's happy where it is. I'd add that IH needs more attention aswell for reasons pointed out back on page 28, he's done little since to make me feel happier.

[MissMoo]

I am currently holding but a single item. I have had other item(s) in the past, but I do not have them anymore, because I used them.

From my understanding no one could use an item last night unless it was passed to them. Am I correct? or way off base?

You are correct, which is the reason my vote is staying where it is. He never even said what the items were and how he used them.

~~~

MOS, you keep going off onto these tangets that are very distracting, and while I understand your intentions, I'm happy with my vote and promise to look more closely at Tautology tomorrow.
Granted, Kilroy's been my only vote, but each time we get close to deadline or a bandwagon gets started, there's some new distraction, and I'm starting to feel like you're at the center of it. When I have time to do a re-read, I'll try to verify this cause right now it's just a feeling.

~~~

MissMoo I feel similar to how I feel about Aimee. I'd like to see a little more participation but I also don't have a strong feeling of scum from her yet.

You people are hard to keep up with! I'm not sure where you find the time to post so often. I check this forum maybe 1-2 times a day and don't often have anything to add to the conversation. I guess to some extent my mama taught me well- Don't talk just to talk.
I'd also say this post took me about 55 minutes to write. In general, I'm just very careful about the way I word things. I spent several years in the military and learned very quickly that choosing the wrong words (especially once we started using email) can lead to trouble very quickly...and being lynched in an online game would have been the least of my worries there. Now, it's become a habit to edit, re-edit and then edit again before hitting the post button. Exception being the days when I play the role of "drunk poster."
Apologies if I'm a bit more restrained than others. Do remember that there are real people behind the avatars who have ingrained habits that refuse to die (like the drinking habit I picked up, hehe).

[theopor_COD]

I'd also say this post took me about 55 minutes to write. In general,

I'm just very careful about the way I word things

.

So are scum, just saying

[Kinetic]

I'd also say this post took me about 55 minutes to write. In general,

I'm just very careful about the way I word things

.

So are scum, just saying

So are town. Is there any reason you would point out such an obvious null tell and choose the scummy side of the argument?