Newbie 35... game over!

[Rick]

Hi everyone,

With that in mind, what do people think about lynching the last of the 7 people to post?

Well that certainly is a bold thing to say Zero (aka diabolically clever newbie).

Personally I don’t think it is a good idea and worse it could be indicate that you are scum. I mean what a better way to lych someone else then to say lets lynch the person who posts x (where x is a greater number than my post). It may also indicate that Jaguar is your partner as Jaguar had posted before your suggestion. Then again it may not, I am only speculating.

It would also ensure that the mafia can't direct the lynch today.

Unless of course you and Zero are scum.

Hmm. Well as you have one vote already I am just going to lay my finger of suspicion on you Zero.

It seems as good a criteria as any, and if anything it will serve to get people speaking up and make the game go a bit quicker.

I give you one thing it certainly has given us a topic of discussion.

[Rick]

Just checking in.. I'll stick with my vote on Rick for now.. mainly because he threw around quite a bit of (what I considered to be unwarranted) suspicion in his post.

Hi Talitha, which bit did you mean? Or perhaps you thought that the whole lot was rubbish.

Perhaps you were referring to this:

It would also ensure that the mafia can't direct the lynch today.

Unless of course you and Zero are scum.

If you do think that this is unwarranted then could you expand on your initial comment, "It would also ensure that the mafia can't direct the lynch today" in post #5 directly after Zero's suggestion?

All I did was make the point that if you and Zero were scum

(and that is a big if)

then you

would

be directing the lynch. Is that so unwarranted?

At the time it was just a thought, but now with your response there may be more to it?

Waiting for your reply.

[Rick]

If Zero really is scum then he's either taking the chance that his suggestion will get his scum buddy lynched

Unless Jaguar is his scum buddy, in this case there is no such chanse what so ever.

Err . . . Talitha

did

actually say that . . .

If Zero really is scum then he's either taking the chance that his suggestion will get his scum buddy lynched, or

he's directly implicately Jaguar

. Neither of those things seems like diabolically clever scum behaviour to me. Also I think a scum would be more careful not to draw attention to themselves like that. I'm not convinced that his suggestion was scummy at all - conversation and discussion is always good for the town.

Yeah and I think I made the same point earlier in my 'unwarranted post' :

It may also indicate that Jaguar is your [Zero's] partner as Jaguar had posted before your suggestion. Then again it may not, I am only speculating.

But as I said before I was only speculating; anyway it seems that Talitha and I do agree on something.

[Rick]

Just posting so nobody thinks I'm inactive or anything.

Scummy!! That's almost enough for me to vote for you. Why would you worry about it when nobody has even brought it up? Combined with his second vote on Zero without reason in this small a game, I think I will

vote: burninglife

. And my vote is not without reason

Don’t really see his last comment as scummy myself. Burninglife is brand new to this forum, so I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Please note, before anyone starts twisting my words here, I am not saying Burninglife is innocent or guilty, I am just saying that I don’t find this particular comment scummy. Just adding my two cents.

I don't really have a problem with him [Rick]. I've just seen him play in other games and he is a good player. Just want to keep my eye on him

You are being very kind to Jaguar to me. Thank you.

[Rick]

Rick, I happen to know that burninglife is just new to mafiascum. Not new to mafia (I've played in games with him on a different forum), so I'm not quite willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and he knows it.

Well in that case.

FOS: Burninglife

It's not enough for me to put a vote on, but good enough for a fos. In any case I am still waiting for Talitha's answer to my question. I see she has posted elsewhere.

[Rick]

. . . It just seemed like a huge leap from what I thought was quite an innocent-sounding suggestion from Zero. In my experience, newbie scum don't start off like that.. they kinda wait around for others to lead the way and look for an easy lynch that doesn't involve getting their hands dirty.

Good point.

In contrast I am always suspicious of the first person to throw suspicion at a newbie for making a mistake. (In this case you).

OK I understand your reasoning.

My comment about Zero's suggestion "ensuring that the mafia don't direct the lynch" was more because I didn't want to shoot down his idea without recognising that it had some merit, and was supposed to be a general comment to do with random methods of choosing lynch candidates on day 1. So it seemed like you were taking a cheap shot at me.

I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily?!

Very satisfactorily. I can see why Jaguar rates you as a class player.

[Rick]

True, but what really needs to be looked at is, who stays active. It's quite easy to pop in right away, throw in a "random vote", then go back into hiding.

*cough*

[Rick]

Hi all,

Hope everyone is enjoying this as much as I am.

I am now away for the weekend (without internet access) so I won't be able to post until Monday (possibly late Sunday).

Don't lynch anyone without me (especially if it's me).

Have a nice weekend.
~Rick

[Rick]

Vote: Jaguar

because she

lied

in post #27.

I’ve been sitting on this for a few reasons. First I wanted to watch any developments before I mentioned it, secondly I wanted to see if anyone else spotted it and finally I just wanted to wait until I was back from my weekend break.

Anyway this was what Jaguar said:

If I'm counting right, three people have said I could be Zero's scum buddy. Well, I'm not. And if I were, I would likely not have posted right after him to avoid suspicion.

I definitely would not have voted for him

.

Jaguar said that she could not be Zero’s partner because she had already voted for Zero, or to be more precise that if she was Zero's partner, she definitely would not have voted for him.

In my limited experience on this board

mafia members often vote for each other to draw away suspicion on later days in case one of them gets lynched

(heck I’ve even done it myself before now).

However, this could have been a mistaken newbie comment, but Jaguar isn’t a newbie.

And finally the real crunch. I checked Jaguar’s newbie games.

Jaguar has been in two newbie games where she has been scum and on both occasions her scum partner has voted against her

.

I don’t think that you could forget that.

So when Jaguar said that she definitely would not have voted for him [Zero – if she was his partner] she made an outright lie.

[Rick]

Oh in case anyone wants to check, these are the two newbie games where Jaguar’s scum partner voted against her:

Newbie Mafia 14

Morpheus and Jaguar were scum, but Morpheus voted for Jaguar.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=103

Incidentally, Talitha was in that game as well.

And:

Newbie Mafia 16

Norinel and Jaguar were scum, but Norinel voted for Jaguar

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=6

[Rick]

No! Therefore, if I were scum, which I am not,

I would not have voted for Zero if he was my scum buddy

. Now I can't say if Zero is scum, because I don't know..

But why? It is false logic and to me that is a lie.

Many scum vote for their scum buddies to take the heat off them in later days in case their buddy is lynched. And you know that!

So how can you say,

"I would not have voted for Zero if he was my scum buddy"

without it being a lie?

[Rick]

I still suspect Jaguar for the reasons I have given but as she now has three votes I am going to remove mine as I don't want to see a quick lynch either.

Unvote:Jaguar

Also I would not want to see her lynched while she still has a random vote on her.

Mr Gnome please can you either remove your random vote on Jaguar or confirm that you want to keep it.

Plus I would like to give Talitha and Prince Kael a chance to add any thoughts if they wish.

Once Mr Gnome, Talitha and Prince Kael give us their thoughts I will put my vote back on.

[Rick]

Vote:Jaguar

I get a nice fuzzy feeling from my vote on Rick, so I am still going to leave it there.

I'm happy to oblige you.

[Rick]

Hi Jaguar,

Are you up for some discussion?

I have to say that there are some things in your last post that I have to rectify.

Rick. Well, I think he's scum, but who knows. First he thinks that Talitha and Zero are scum together

Not quite. I just meant that

if

Talitha and Zero were scum, or should I say

if in the event

that Talitha and Zero were scum

then

Talitha and Zero would be directing the lynch. Some notes here -

if

means that it is a possibility, or a supposition. When the word

then

is used it follows that this is true only if the original supposition were correct.

These were my exact words:

It would also ensure that the mafia can't direct the lynch today.

Unless of course you and Zero are scum.

If

in the event that Talitha and Zero were scum,

then

Talitha and Zero would be directing the lynch. I never said that I thought Talitha and Zero are scum together. And I have already previously mentioned this in post#25:

All I did was make the point that if you and Zero were scum

(and that is a big if)

then you would be directing the lynch. Is that so unwarranted?

Nope, Jaguar you have been twisting my words on this issue. Then you go on to say:

than he thinks that Zero and I are scum together

No, as I have already said in post #26, I was speculating.

Yeah and I think I made the same point earlier in my 'unwarranted post' :

It may also indicate that Jaguar is your [Zero's] partner as Jaguar had posted before your suggestion. Then again it may not, I am only speculating.

But as I said before I was only speculating; anyway it seems that Talitha and I do agree on something.

Townies have to speculate. The only people who don’t speculate are the mafia! The mafia know who they are and they know that everyone else is a townie. The townies on the other hand do not know who the mafia are or who the other townies are. Townies have to make guesses, assumptions and speculate based on what the other players say (or don’t say).

Now he just thinks that I am scum

This is true. I hope that I am not wrong.

He hasn't really looked at anyone else.

This though is not true. In fact I suspect everyone, it is just that you are top of the list, and I don’t think it is wise to list all your suspicions, unless you are hoping that someone will react to them to give themselves away.

He is trying to prove that I am lying with faulty reasoning,

Nope, although perhaps lie was too strong a word. You are top of my suspicious list because you used faulty logic. And someone with your experience should know that it was faulty logic.

I have never random voted for a scum partner.

And I never said you did. Nor have I inferred from your statement that Zero is your partner.

What you said in post #27, was that if you were (Zero’s scum buddy) then you would definitely

not

have voted for him.

If I'm counting right, three people have said I could be Zero's scum buddy. Well, I'm not. And if I were, I would likely not have posted right after him to avoid suspicion. I definitely would not have voted for him.

This is false logic

because

scum often vote for their buddies

. If their buddy is lynched they then draw suspicion away from themselves in later days. A newbie might not know this, but you with your experience must know that. And the more you

deny

your logic was false and try and

twist

my words the more convinced I become that you are scum.

And I didn't lie.

Well you certainly

used false logic

and since have been

denying

that and

twisting

what I and you said.

He also said that Zero's suggestion wasn't a good one. Why?

It is true that I said that Zero’s suggestion wasn’t a good one, but

I gave my reasons

. This is what I said:

Personally I don’t think it is a good idea and worse it could be indicate that you are scum. I mean what a better way to lych someone else then to say lets lynch the person who posts x (where x is a greater number than my post). It may also indicate that Jaguar is your partner as Jaguar had posted before your suggestion. Then again it may not, I am only speculating.

Notice the word

'speculating’

, plus I also said

it may not

with reference to Jaguar/Zero being partners.

As far as I was concerned it wasn’t even worth a vote, just a fos. I also said that it has given as a topic for discussion (that was meant to be taken as a positive).

As I have already said, this

twisting

of my words just furthers my suspicions of you.

I could go on but I think that is enough.
~Rick

[Rick]

Nice Post.

If I'm counting right, three people have said I could be Zero's scum buddy. Well, I'm not. And if I were, I would likely not have posted right after him to avoid suspicion. I definitely would not have voted for him.

This is false logic

because

scum often vote for their buddies

.

But

I

haven't ever voted for a scum buddy, so why is it false logic in my case?

OK to answer you question, “But I haven't ever voted for a scum buddy, so why is it false logic in my case?”

It is irrelevant that 'you haven’t ever voted for a scum buddy' in my opinion. That has nothing to do with what I said, nor did I ever say that you ever voted for your scum buddy.

What is relevant is that

you made the case that you couldn’t be Zero’s scum buddy based on the fact you voted for him

.

Fact

– three people said you

could

be Zero’s scum buddy. Emphasis on

could

not are.

Fact

– you stated that if you were Zero's scum buddy, you would likely not have posted right after him to avoid suspicion.

OK – that is possible.

Fact

– you stated and I quote, “I

definitely

would

not

have voted for him”.

Well that is incorrect

. Scum do and often vote for their buddies. When you said, “I definitely would not have voted for him”, you were using false logic.

= = =

Now I must add in your favour that I don’t think that alone should be justification to lynch you

.

And if you had posted your latest reply first I would probably have removed my vote. But your immediate reaction was panicky in my opinion, and you seemed insistent on changing/

twisting

what I said.

This was my original statement:

finally the real crunch. I checked Jaguar’s newbie games. Jaguar has been in two newbie games where she has been scum and on both occasions her scum partner has voted against her. I don’t think that you could forget that. So when Jaguar said that she definitely would not have voted for him [Zero – if she was his partner] she made an outright lie.

Now I thought I had been clear. I said that your scum partner had voted against you. And the reason I mentioned this was I can’t believe that you could have forgotten this. If this hadn’t happened you could have claimed ignorance and said that you didn’t realise that scum will vote for each other. However you have tried to

twist

what I said, for example

Norinel voted for me and Morpheus voted for me, but in neither game did I put a day 1 vote on my buddy.

vote: Rick for insinuating that I am scum with faulty reasoning.

I mentioned these two games because I can’t believe you could have forgotten them. I didn’t mention them because you had voted for your scum partners and I never said anything of the sought. But you tried to

twist

things to make it sound I had said that.

That is why I am keeping my vote.

[Rick]

Whereas we know Rick and I are not afraid to pick a fight (no hard feelings here, It's all part of the game

I was just in the middle of posting a message and up popped a notification – and lo and behold, Jaguar’s got a fourth vote. Which means I will have to change the post I am currently writing (this one). I presume I am allowed to post as we are in twilight.

I am quite sorry to see you go from this game Jaguar. I only hope that you are scum (in this game) otherwise I will feel quite foolish. Anyway it seems you were up for the discussion and yes I do like a bit of a scrap, and no hard feelings here either.

[Rick]

Ok, this is getting annoying. It says I'm watching this thread, but I'm not recieving any notifications for it.

Well Mr Gnome, my notifications are certainly working, so if you are still not receiving yours, I would post something about it in the

help

forum. Just a suggestion.

[Rick]

S***.

Hmm as far as I know in Twilight, anyone can post including you Jaguar. Once your death scene is posted then you can't post. I assume you know this as you are a mod. Anyway is this correct?

[Rick]

For those who haven't played before, this is what is referred to as a lynch-wrong-and-lose situation for the town. Therefore we need to be very cautious today with our votes, and I'd go as far as saying that no-one should vote until we have had a whole heap of discussion. All it would take is a townie voting for another townie and the scum can win the game with their two votes.

Well I second that. No votes people, please. If you want to vote give an intention to vote.

[Rick]

Prince Kael,

You really make me smile. It is a pleasure to be in the same game as you, and I promise that I am being sincere.

As for whether I am a cop or not, well I decline to answer that question.

My opinion is that the cop whoever he or she is should not come out (even if they have found scum). Let me explain why, first if the cop comes out s/he is dead tonight. Secondly if they have found scum they should hold back for a while. They can then make an educated guess as to the scum’s partner. Secondly and my favourite, this will make the scum sweat.

OK if the cop found an innocent, well that does help. It means that they have a 2/3 chance to find scum just on odds alone. Again I would suggest that they don’t come out. If they work the odds and we lynch scum today, then the scum only has a 1 in 3 chance of hitting them in the night. Maybe they should just infer who they think is innocent. That way if the scum do hit the cop in the night, then we can reread through the cop’s posts to see who was found out to be innocent.

Your servant,
Rick

[Rick]

Dear Mod,

Please can you prod Burning (if you haven't already), he has gone missing from one game and hasn't posted D2 here yet and may need replacing.

Thanks.

[Rick]

I seriously suspect MGIA, I find his reasons for lynching Jaguar very unsatisfying!

Me too, but then again

I suspect everyone

.

Lets start

MGIA

- very very scummy – too scummy if you know what I mean? Anyway if you read the thread, Jaguar and I were having a

discussion

(and a very productive one too in my opinion) when out of nowhere MGIA goes and ends it – just great. Well seeing as he is going to be replaced that is all I can say. Shame really.

PK

– Don’t you still think that burning is scum? You were quite convinced on D1. But now you say:

It is pretty unreasonable that

both

burning and myself are scum and we were'nt on the bandwagon.

Which infers that it is reasonable that

one

of you is scum? But which one?

Burning

– well he could have lynched Jag if he had wanted to so he can’t be scum, unless of course, he is a very clever and patient scum. It is a possibility.

Talitha

– first I need to quote something Jaguar said:

Someone do something scummy.

Talitha jumped all over MMCL in another game for saying basically the same thing, but here she hasn't even mentioned it.

Yes Talitha did jump all over MMCL in another game for saying basically the same thing! But in the other game Jaguar also agreed with Talitha. Now in this game we know for certain that Jaguar is innocent, so it makes me wonder why Talitha didn’t mention anything about Zero saying this in

this

game. Of course we

now

know Zero is innocent, but we didn’t know that on day 1. Well apart from the scum; the scum know who are innocent. Perhaps Talitha didn’t want to be seen leading a bandwagon against Zero who she knew would turn out to be innocent?

Anyway, enough rambling from me.

[Rick]

makes me wonder why Talitha didn’t mention anything about Zero saying this in

this

game

I hardly "jumped all over" anyone. You have to consider the contexts of each game. In the other game it was the best thing that stood out to me at the time and I wanted to make a note of it before it disappeared into an oblivion of posts and pages. In this game I felt there was a lot better things to go on. And you're right, I didn't want to lead a bandwagon against zero, when I felt there were better candidates.

Nice answer. Thanks for responding so quickly.

[Rick]

Welcome back Mr Gnome, and thanks for joining us Norinel.

First I must apologise for not posting sooner. Don’t know were the last few days have gone to.

Norinel I must say I found your analysis, errm how can I say it, yes enlightening. I wonder perhaps could you give an analysis of say how Mr Gnome has played so far? I’ve got my views but I would love to hear yours first if you don’t mind.

Thanks.

[Rick]

Why me?

Because you have just joined this game, and I am just giving you an opportunity to speak. Plus your other analysis 'amused' me so much.

Why him?

Because he truely baffles me.

First he says this:

True, but what really needs to be looked at is, who stays active. It's quite easy to pop in right away, throw in a "random vote", then go back into hiding.

Then he

seems

to go into hiding after just saying that is what needs to be looked at! Strange.

Then when I asked him to either remove his random vote or say that he wants to keep it he says:

Sorry, Sorry, I'm here. Odd, I thought I had been posting here. Oh well, Unvote Jaguar I'm really not that suspicious of her.

Which is fair enough.

Then when I was having my 'discussion' with Jaguar out of nowhere he casts the lynching vote without a warning or anything simply because she had put a vote on him.

Then when he rejoins the game he comes out with this emotional blackmail:

And yes, I admit I killed Jaguar quite prematurely. I've also admited many times that I suck at this game. I already said that Jaguar's constant baseless accusations made me overly suspicious of her. If you want to kill me and throw the game away because of that, feel free to vote for me.

Which is as I read it, . . . Yes I killed Jaguar without reason. I am bad at this game and being very scummy, but if you lynch me (and I'm not scum) its your fault the town lost and not mine for playing badly.

So I am totally baffled by MGIA. I keep thinking, 'very scummy' but surely the scum wouldn't be that scummy or would they?

Maybe it is exactly as MGIA says:

any analasis of my playing (no matter what game it's in) will almost always end up with me looking bad. What can I say? I prefer to not get myself into any type of playing pattern, but in trying not to, I usually end up getting myself lynched.

Maybe he is right.

Why now?

I don't really understand this question. Why not now?

If I'm going to do a full-fledged analysis, I'll do it when I have time to look at everyone.

If you want to that is fine by me. Don't feel obliged to on my account though.

[Rick]

I'm leaning towards the scums being Norinel & Mr Gnome

So do I!

I am leaning towards the feeling that if Mr Gnome were scum he would be playing very differently (in other words I am starting to believe him), but I would like to know from Talitha and Norinel (because they have the most experience and are both mods) are the mafia,

that

scummy?

[Rick]

Thank you for your replies.

Yeah I think Talitha is right about MGIA – either scum or not interested. I am not sure of which but I will keep an open mind.

Now as for Norinel. Hmm, I think Zero would say that he (Norinel) likes to throw a lot of FUD about. Not that I mind too much about that, because

I tend to do the same when I am hunting for scum just so that I can read into the replies.

Interesting theory about me and Tal being cop/scum. Of course the scum have a greater indication as to who the cop is because they only have a choice of three (whereas the townies have a choice of four). Plus as Norinel probably isn’t the cop (because burning would have said in his claim – I think) then, if Norinel is a townie the scum have a very good idea as to who the cop is.

Lets think what Norinel has said though:

Talitha and Rick are the only two people who've not claimed townie or asked the cop to come out, so it's almost certain that one of them's the cop. Could go either way, but they've both been so active that I feel that whichever one isn't the cop is scum. At the moment, I'm thinking it's more likely that Rick's the cop and Talitha's mafia.

A good possibility, but what if one of them is the cop and the other is a townie (and what if Norinel is scum)? Then Norinel is influencing the cop into voting against the other. Very clever.

Just some FUD of mine in the opposite direction (nothing personal).

Of course Talitha could be right:

Norinel: The only person I am 90% sure isn't the cop is you. Asking the cop to come out could be the cop's way of trying to foil a possible mafia counter-claim, or they may be trying to appear not to be the cop in the hopes that they can live through another night.

I think it is time for a FOS. Here goes

FOS:Noinel

but I'm not near a vote yet.

[Rick]

So... Hmmm... We seem to be at quite the standstill. I'm hoping a deadline is

not

possible right now, as that would end the game just as fast as lynching the wrong person.

Ideas? Anyone? I'm really trying, but this is a difficult situation to figure out.

Not really sure what you mean by that? I wouldn't say we are at a standstill. I would say that there are some very patient players in this game which is a good thing. We aren't going to get any silly lynches, which tend to be in the mafia's favour.

There are a lot of ideas going around Mr Gnome.

Talitha and Prince Kael are leaning towards you (MGIA) and Norinel and I am leaning towards Norinel. (So that is three leans on Norinel.)

Norinel has indicated that he thinks either I (Rick) or Talitha are scum and that the other one is the cop and that the scum's partner is either one of MGIA or Prince Kael.

So there are ideas floating around.

Anyway I am waiting for Norinel to post to see if he has anything to say about my counter-FUD throwing.

[Rick]

Wow, triple posts. Mod please can you delete the excess posts please.

The site went a bit screwy last night, but when I logged off there was only one of my posts, but now there are three (plus three of MGIA's).

Anyway, Mr Gnome that is what I would put it down to. People are posting, discussing, asking questions, answering the questions and throwing a bit of FUD. So I would say that they are patient, well apart from you that is.

[Rick]

I'm going to stick with my fos on Norinel.

FOS: Norinel

[Rick]

Unofficial FOS count:
Norinel (2) - Rick, Prince Kael
Mr G (1) - Talitha
Prince Kael (1) - Norinel

Not FOSing - Mr G

Well I am going to vote Norinel soon unless anyone changes my mind.

[Rick]

Vote:Norinel

[Rick]

Opps.

Vote:Norinel

[Rick]

Well scum, I have to congratulate you. Well played especially Talitha. As for Mr Gnome , mumble, mumble, grumble, mumble.

No I must say that

both

of you had the chance to finish Burning on day 1 but chose not to. So you are

both

very patient and it definitely worked in your favour.

Norinel, well you had it all sussed:

I find you [Rick] and Talitha the scummiest of the other four players, but since that pair's also the only two who haven't asked the cop to come out or claimed townie, the cop is probably one of them as well. Since I'm not mafia and there'd be one mafia left, it has to be either PK or Gnome.

The problem was that I also took this as a ‘divide and conquer’ tactic. You were right about me being scummy. All I can say in my defence that I was about to unvote Jaguar in the ‘post that I had to change’.

I was just in the middle of posting a message and up popped a notification – and lo and behold, Jaguar’s got a fourth vote. Which means I will have to change the post I am currently writing (this one). I presume I am allowed to post as we are in twilight.

What I didn’t say at the time was that

I was about to unvote Jaguar

; I didn’t say it because I thought that the townies wouldn’t believe me and the scum would use it against me. Anyway sorry Jaguar. I did enjoy our discussion and I was about to unvote you (although I must admit you were still high on my list).

At the time I was aghast of MGIA's scummy lynching vote, but I just couldn't believe that scum would do that. Just goes to show.

Oh and I investigated Zero.

So very bad plays all round from me and very good and very patient plays by both of the scum.

[Rick]

Just a test post, because I can't view page 8

- getting " No posts exist for this topic "

Just want to see if I can post before I continue with the after game chat.

[Rick]

Whew. I have to admit, I didn't think I was going to survive today. I was sure I was going to get it for lynching Jaguar.

Well you totally fooled me. Well done.

By the way I have no objection with you (or anyone else) putting in the lynching last vote. It was just the manner in which you did it. ie without warning or discussion. Well I have certainly learnt a lot from this game. And one thing for sure: if anyone is

too

scummy, they probably are scum.

Thanks to Dourgrim

for modding and keeping up the pace without putting a deadline on for Day 2. I was trying to lure the mafia into being impatient. Well that didn't work did it. In the end it was two townies who voted first! Oops.

Well I thoughly enjoyed the game and strangely though because the Doc was hit and I investigating him as well the game became a lot more challenging for me. I'll have to look out for a classic mafia game - mafia and townies with no other roles.