Open 46 - Strawberry (Game Over!), before 508

[competentpsycho]

EBWOP think = thing

cant seem to type today

[skitzer]

I have the reasons in my head, I just can't put them into words.

(I guess I'm just complicated like that...)

[competentpsycho]

for that:

Confirm vote: skitzer

[skitzer]

Why did I know that was coming. I can't make it any clearer.

[competentpsycho]

You could try - we are basing the fact that you are scum on your actions looking scummy so you go and vote without listing reasons. Then when asked for them you "can't put them in words". This falls in the category of "women's intuition", but by your little symbol you are a guy, so this definitely doesn't apply to you, and even if it did, hunches are not evidence enough for votes at this point. Remember when I said be careful with your votes? That means don't vote unless you have good reasons - hunches aren't good reasons. Therefore put it in words, or I see a d2 skitz lynch coming.

[skitzer]

Unvote.

I'm kind of having a revelation now, and when I vote for people, it doesn't make sense to anyone. So I'm just going to unvote and read how other people explain their votes. Maybe I'll learn something. competentpsycho, your right.

BTW, I'm doing tis in all my games. I just wasn't made to play Mafia.

[competentpsycho]

LOL skitz there is nothing to voting - vote and put why you think that person is scum. Not hard. You will get the hang of it. I don't care how you explain the vote as long as it seems reasonably true. Therefore if all you have is hunches use FOS instead. I think you could benefit from reading through a few games that are over to learn some stuff.

[skitzer]

The problem is, I

have

read through many other completed games, and I can't just get it into my thick skull.

[competentpsycho]

I guess just stick with it and gain experience by learning from your mistakes. I guess the most important suggestion I have would be when you are mafia (like now) think like a townie. I look at the posts and find the scummiest person in there and then if they are town I vote them and post my reasons. If not I go to the next person. If there are no really scummy town, I use FOS's with what little reasoning that I can find. I guess most important of all is do not choose who to try to get lynched when mafia - go with the flow of the town, while putting in your own unique input. Hmm, the reason I got into mafia is because of a friend of mine that plays on the SA forums. He's really good at it and explained the game to me pretty well before I even started. I guess I started at a slight advantage compared to most newbies because of that. Anyways just stick with it - everybody learns and improves, just some slower than others.

PS I still think you are scum so if this is some pathetic ploy at gaining a little bit of leeway it won't work.

[competentpsycho]

Ok, looking at your profile, another possible reason for not being so good is that this game takes critical thinking - analyzing stuff closely for bullshit. I have been friends with my fair share of pathological liars, and this comes fairly easy to me. In addition, I have taken college courses on logic. This REALLY helps and considering you are only 15 you may be lacking in some RL experience that would help here. (mostly making well thought out, logical arguments - seems like you are starting at a fairly young age for this)

[skitzer]

ha, I wondered when someone would notice that. Yeah, I know, but it's such an intriguing game, and there's no age requirement...

I guess this game takes common sense too. Boy am I in trouble.

[competentpsycho]

back on topic - after a quick reread, I think the scum trio is:

skitz
Mr Mean
Neraren

At this point I have heard and stated lots of arguments why these people are scum, but very little (actually none really) why they aren't. I would like to hear cases against any one else now (not these three). Even me if you got it but this game is getting kind of repetitive and slow at this point, so I want to read about the people that aren't in my scum list. I am very certain about these but if you have something that may change my mind, bring it forward. I am

NOT

talking about cop claim - you keep quiet, you are useless to us dead.

[skitzer]

I know this totally breaks repetitivity statements you just made, but CP, could you give a brief recap for me why I am in that list?

[Mr. Mean]

I have the reasons in my head, I just can't put them into words.

(I guess I'm just complicated like that...)

unvote; vote skitzer

Yea, you kind of need some reasons. [/spoiler][/area]

[competentpsycho]

... and finally the mafia turn on one another.

skitz I am actually on my way out so when I get back and have time I will put together a list of what convinced me of your scumminess.

[skitzer]

ok, thanks.

[Mr. Mean]

Mr Mean

Well, I have used flawed logic once and with a mater unrelated to a vote. But competentpsycho says that a have flawed logic. It is almost like he is trying to start a bandwagon vote on me. Go figure.

[skitzer]

I think I understand now, CP. I have made a lot of mistakes in this game. This game has already taught me a lot.

1. Read Everything, not just what applies to you.
2. Don't make votes on bad, little, or no reasoning
3. Read Everything Twice.

That said, the biggest thing I have is a hunch, and that is why I will

FoS: d3sisted

. I can understand why he pushed for my lynch, but it was still a little harsh at the time.

If you have anything to add, CP, tell me. I don't think this will change your mind, but it will help clarify myself.

[competentpsycho]

@ Mr Mean - first you voted with no reason (on me). Then you just agreed with skitz's (admittedly wrong) reason as your reason for voting me. This set off some scum alarms in my head. Along with the evidence for skitz and Neraren, you three seemed to be defending each other as pro town for some obviously scummy actions. Seemed like a connection to me. So far to me you three seem like the scum. I am not trying to get a bandwagon on you, because I want a skitz lynch. I would probably vote on you if it came down to it, or Neraren, but right now I would like to pursue my biggest suspicion.

@ skitz - looks like you have your major mistakes that can be fixed and summed up easily listed there, and in order of importance none the less. Especially #1. Not reading stuff that has nothing to do with you is anti-town and when you don't know of that stuff it is a BIG scum tell. The only reason to only worry about posts pertaining to you is if you are mafia.

For what you don't have, flip-flopping on shit is bad. Don't be so movable in your convictions. If you vote for someone, a 1 or 2 sentence vote shouldn't be all it takes to sway your vote away, unless the vote was only to put pressure on that person to talk. Otherwise you shouldn't have voted for them in the first place. Also, overusing this "I am new/ I suck at this game" excuse is just that - an excuse, and a bad one at that. Don't do it anymore. People can tell by the way you play, bringing attention to it, unless it is your first game, is completely pointless. Finally, don't "do what people want". People may not like who you vote for but it is your vote, not theirs. Therefore don't unvote because they don't see why you did. Instead explain. Then they will explain why they don't think so or agree, at which time you can adjust your vote if you think they are right. Remember, there are always liars among us (if you are mafia you know who they are, but remember - they don't know that you know), so be wary of what people "want you to do".

PS - Saying your scum buddies seem pro-town and aren't suspicious when they obviously have been scummy is bad - if your idiot mafia brothers made a mistake that is definitely scummy, factor that into your analysis of everyone, don't completely write them off as town, but don't put them at the top of your list either unless they are sure to be lynched.

PSS - When I said make you own opinion and put forth your own unique reasons for votes, I didn't mean completely ignore everyone else's opinions. If you agree with them on something mention that but if you agree with everything, it looks a little fishy. If that something is completely obvious to everyone its not so bad but when its a stretch and you do it (like Mr Mean) it looks really bad.

Ok with skitz' tutoring session over, White is lurking again, which is unusual from what I have seen from him before. Last game I played he was mafia with me and very talkative, sort of like d1 here. Now he seems to have minimized his posts. Could be busy, but seems a little weird.

FOS white

.

Max, Zeppo, Neraren aren't talking much either, but they have been that way the whole game. The only person here I get big scum vibes from for this is Neraren since he said before that he was busy with school and that his tests are finished now, yet still posts only to defend himself. I have a noose with your name on it man. I also have a sharpie to rename it if you decide to start helping out here. Skitz's noose has his name woven into the rope, so there's almost no way of redeeming himself.

Boing and killerbob - where the hell are you? you guys are the textbook definition of LURKER right now.

Damn this got long - time to eat dinner.

[Erg0]

Vote Count

skitzer 3 (competentpsycho, killerbob, Mr. Mean)
d3sisted 1 (Boing)
Mr. Mean 1 (White)
Neraren 1 (d3sisted)

Not Voting 4 (Max, Neraren, skitzer, Zeppo)

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Neraren]

Competentpsycho: I assume you are still going on Mr Mean/Skitzer because of way back on page 9:

The fact that you (skitz} just went with a bandwagon on me from Mean's no explanation vote (YOU STILL NEED TO EXPLAIN MR MEAN) makes me think you and mean are scum.

You called them as a scumpair for the sole reason that they and only they were voting against you. You go on to wedge Max in there to complete the trifecta, but later backtrack and say it's just to get people talking. Being suspicious is one thing, but by page 10 you'd submitted no more evidence against them and said:

I am very sure of skitz and Mr Mean.

I really want to see you make a case here. Especially why you're putting me in a trio with them. You went out of your way to NOT make a case with:

At this point I have heard and stated lots of arguments why these people are scum, but very little (actually none really) why they aren't.

I haven't seen the case that you're referring to besides you personally saying "That's totally what scum would do." The biggest point used against me is not being around. Now that I'm here, do you have anything more damning?

And just for d3sisted, who wants me to make my opinions clearer: I think my top suspects might have switched to CP and killerbob, CP because of above and killer for my last post in addition to voting exactly like CP with what I believe is a weak case.

[skitzer]

I am not scum. I don't see how you got that. My positions on Mr. Mean and Neraren were my personal opinions. I don't see how they are either. Thanks for the help, CP, but you've grown somewhat suspicious.

[killerbob]

I think my top suspects might have switched to CP and killerbob, CP because of above and killer for my last post in addition to voting exactly like CP with what I believe is a weak case.

Your last post???

Otherwise, considering your join date I don't think you have enough general experience to draw this conclusion.

Just because I'm new here doesn't mean Im new to the game. I don't appreciate being completely dismissed with what is basically "STFU Noob". You're welcome to disagree with me, but that sort of thing is uncalled for.

That said, skitzer voted mostly through elimination. He was stating why he thought everyone else was town and/or had no read on them. I would think scum would me more of a "a few of you are suspicious, but XXX is the most scummy" seeing as they are eventually going to vote for all those people for a lynch assuming things go in their favor. I'm not saying Skitzer is completely off my suspicion list, just that he's not near the top.

Who are the prime suspects for you?

Right now I'm focusing on competentpsycho and d3sisted, because as I said I think one of them is probably scum. I seriously doubt they're both scum though, so I'm okay with poking both of them with sticks until one of them cracks.

That was your last post and I don't see you even mention me. Looks like you are grasping for straws. In this post you just mention my analysis and don't really comment either way.

Hmmm, did Neraren disappear? Supposedly he has more free time now and was going to reread - seems to still be busy though, or lurking. Did you finish rereading Neraren?

Yep. Went through everything with a comb, though not exactly fine toothed. Unfortunately I dont see a lot I can add at this point. I think competentpsycho and d3sisted are definitely not both scum, but there's a case to be made against either of them, and they're both vocal against the other, so its hard to tell. A White/Max team would not surprise me at this point, but nothing conclusive enough to make a case for. Boing I have absolutely no read on, so I'm going to have to go back and read looking for him specifically. I think Skitzer is probably town, because his quick analysis would have probably pointed a few more fingers if it was scum. See killerbob's analysis on page 11 as an example. Mr Mean seems kinda green but not especially scummy IMO. Zeppo hasn't said much that sets him apart from everyone else, but I couldn't say if that was because he's following everyone else's lead or just agreeing with other's logical assessments. Not going to hold it against someone for not being the first person to post an idea.

I think that's everyone. The only other thing is the night kill of a quiet townie, which it almost impossible to draw conclusions from. I'm going to look harder at everyone's interactions with Cornelius before he was lynched and see what I can get from that.I know I have a lot of posting to catch up on, so does anyone want an in depth analysis of anything in particular?

And as for the comment on my case for my vote...I made that in post 261.

skitzer - It seems that you are so eager to put out your votes and make assumptions that you don't really see the whole thread and make logical conclusions. Is there no one else who you think is scum so you want Neranen to talk more?

So here is what I am going to do:
1.

Vote: skitzer

because you seem the most scummy to me right now.
2. Give you all my top 3 scum:

1. skitzer
   
2. Mr. Mean
   
3. Zeppo

And since then, he has made my vote seem like it was the right choice. And using your logic, you would be saying that everyone who votes the same are scum...that doesn't make sense.

[Neraren]

CP: I could start slinging accusations around, but honestly things I've seen have been either addressed or have no benefit from stating outright. Now that I'm around I can start addressing things as they happen, but just going "You're right, you're right, and you're right" doesn't help anyone.

^^^All that stuff, just look up a little bit^^^

I freely admit its not the strongest link in the world. I just think competentpsycho hasn't made a good case for his convictions, and you agree with him despite that. It's not anything that says you

are

scum, just that you tagged along pretty quickly there. I'd ask you to explain, but I'm not going to have you make psycho's case for him. If he does turn out to be scum, though, you're going to be near the top of my list.

[competentpsycho]

The only person here I get big scum vibes from for this is Neraren since he said before that he was busy with school and that his tests are finished now, yet still posts only to defend himself.

16 min later...

Competentpsycho: I assume you are still going on Mr Mean/Skitzer because of way back on page 9:

The fact that you (skitz} just went with a bandwagon on me from Mean's no explanation vote (YOU STILL NEED TO EXPLAIN MR MEAN) makes me think you and mean are scum.

You called them as a scumpair for the sole reason that they and only they were voting against you. You go on to wedge Max in there to complete the trifecta, but later backtrack and say it's just to get people talking. Being suspicious is one thing, but by page 10 you'd submitted no more evidence against them and said:

I am very sure of skitz and Mr Mean.

I really want to see you make a case here. Especially why you're putting me in a trio with them. You went out of your way to NOT make a case with:

At this point I have heard and stated lots of arguments why these people are scum, but very little (actually none really) why they aren't.

I haven't seen the case that you're referring to besides you personally saying "That's totally what scum would do." The biggest point used against me is not being around. Now that I'm here, do you have anything more damning?

And just for d3sisted, who wants me to make my opinions clearer: I think my top suspects might have switched to CP and killerbob, CP because of above and killer for my last post in addition to voting exactly like CP with what I believe is a weak case.

Notice all the separate quotes from previous pages - this post took some time... probably about 16 minutes.

You are lurking - why? Oh and hence my reasoning and further suspicion. Give me a reason for the obvious lurking and little scumhunting and for little suspicions other than me and d3sisted for stating suspicion on you. Townies would defend themselves and instead you attack the person who suspects you. Scummy move. If Mr Mean or skitz wants a reason for my suspicions on them I can go back and make a comprehensive list, but I have already pretty much beat that dead horse and frankly don't have time right now so it'll have to wait.