Open 46 - Strawberry (Game Over!), before 508

[Boing]

long

coloured

post

I can see what you're trying to do there, but this could be a way to give an excuse to a not-so-subtle tutoring of a scumbuddy. I doubt you'd be that blatant, though, so I'm letting it slide.

I don't like d3sisted's playstyle one bit and I don't see it as being helpful to the town, but he hasn't done much that has made him actually stand out as mafia so I'm going to

unvote

. We need to catch scum here, not unhelpful townies.

Concerning the skitzer bandwagon: it seemed to start back on post 255 with the baseless vote on Neraren. He's made some scummy-looking moves since then, such as the vote hopping, but he hasn't managed to convince me that he's mafia, and instead seems more like an overeager newbie struggling a bit with trying to find a playstyle.

However, I can definitely see why a skitzer/Neraren/Mr Mean trio makes sense (skitz's fraudulent analysis), which is making me reconsider my stance on skitzer. It's no sure thing, and it may well not be those three, but despite his recent defense of himself I'm going with

Vote: skitzer

[Neraren]

Notice all the separate quotes from previous pages - this post took some time... probably about 16 minutes.

You are lurking - why? Oh and hence my reasoning and further suspicion. Give me a reason for the obvious lurking and little scumhunting and for little suspicions other than me and d3sisted for stating suspicion on you. Townies would defend themselves and instead you attack the person who suspects you. Scummy move. If Mr Mean or skitz wants a reason for my suspicions on them I can go back and make a comprehensive list, but I have already pretty much beat that dead horse and frankly don't have time right now so it'll have to wait.

I started writing before your post was up, and I was going back to pull up quotes so that it wasn't just me ranting. I probably should have previewed to see any posts since then, but other than that, I stand by it.

Your case against Mr. Mean is literally "You voted for me". That's it. That's the whole case. Give us something here.

Your case against skitz started the exact same way but I admit has evolved from there. It looks to me like he's either a bad scum player or a bad town player. Unfortunately both of these make you look like scum, so its hard to analyze. I'm still willing to write it off as newbie mistakes instead of scumtells, because any scum that knew what he was doing wouldn't do it, and his scumbuddies would probably tell him such.

Your case against me, I'm not sure what else you could want me to defend. Midterms mean I wasn't round for a bit. Midterms done, but I still have normal schoolwork, which means the game isn't exactly my top priority. I'm still around, but I'm only going to post when I have something to say. Since you insist on accusing me over and over, most of what I have to say is defending myself.

Neraren since he said before that he was busy with school and that his tests are finished now, yet still posts only to defend himself

Townies would defend themselves and instead you attack the person who suspects you.

When I defend myself, you say you want me to make content posts.
When I make content posts, you say I should be defending myself.
Is your problem that the content post I made was against you? By all means, tell me who to suspect and we'll get this railroad moving.

[skitzer]

I honestly don't see how Mr. Mean and Neraren got into this. I said bad things about may 4 or 5 people left, which means there should be others! And why am I being criticized on my analysis. I'm sure Boing's analysis had some people he didn't seem bad...

[Mr. Mean]

Mr Mean - first you voted with no reason (on me).
I siad that you were being to defencive.
Then you just agreed with skitz's (admittedly wrong) reason as your reason for voting me.
That was only one reason. Like I said before, you were to defencive.
Along with the evidence for skitz and Neraren, you three seemed to be defending each other as pro town for some obviously scummy actions. Seemed like a connection to me.
I never defended them. Show us all a quote to prove it.
So far to me you three seem like the scum. I am not trying to get a bandwagon on you, because I want a skitz lynch.
I never said that you were trying to bandwagon on me, only that you were trying to bandwagon on someone.

I have done nothing wrong. You say that I am using false reasoning, yet I have disproven everything that you have said about me.

[Mr. Mean]

Oh, I forgot this in my last post.

unvote; vote competentpscho

[competentpsycho]

@Neraren - I guess what I want is content posts without asking for them. You rarely post without either us asking or us saying you are scummy or suspicious. You are basically a lurker and linked to my skitz/Mean suspicion defending each other. I am not completely convinced on you yet. You don't have to be so defensive, I am not voting for you right now.

@Mean - So you voted on me with no reason and your argument was that I was being defensive? Saying that I am being defensive is no argument for you innocence Mr Mean. Thats just a way to try to sweep the issue under the rug. yet again a scummy move. Then for going along with skitz's flawed logic you say again that I was being defensive posting this. I am pointing out scummy actions, it may be defensive, but this is still protown and I would have done the same if you tried these no reason/shit reason arguments against someone else. The defending each other part was a connection based on Neraren and skitz. They both seem to ignore these scumtells that I have pointed out on you in their analysis, and considering my suspicion on them, it furthered my suspicion on you. You never outright defended them. But you did have a half assed attempt at getting rid of the connection here:

I have the reasons in my head, I just can't put them into words.

(I guess I'm just complicated like that...)

unvote; vote skitzer

Yea, you kind of need some reasons. [/spoiler][/area]

but then your next three posts implicate me again.

Then as to your bandwagon comment:

I never said that you were trying to bandwagon on me, only that you were trying to bandwagon on someone.

Well, I have used flawed logic once and with a mater unrelated to a vote. But competentpsycho says that a have flawed logic.

It is almost like he is trying to start a bandwagon vote on me

. Go figure.

So yes you did say I was trying to get a bandwagon on you. In addition, I wouldn't call what I am doing against skitz trying to get a bandwagon - I am not telling people to vote for him. For one, I am the first vote on him. Two, I am telling people what scummy actions he has done and voting for him myself. They can make their own decisions based on the evidence.

[competentpsycho]

I honestly don't see how Mr. Mean and Neraren got into this. I said bad things about may 4 or 5 people left, which means there should be others! And why am I being criticized on my analysis. I'm sure Boing's analysis had some people he didn't seem bad...

You are not being criticized - it helps us find scum. Mean got into it because he had obvious scumtells too, but you didnt seem to find it. Looked a little like a connection with the flawed analysis of my post before but here it looked like a stronger connection. Boing didn't say anyone I was suspicious of looked not suspicious and probably town. Go look at it. Also, I wasn't already suspicious of Boing like I was you. He did leave out lurkers, but this is understandable as lurkers are hard to get a read on. Speaking of which:

Boing - do you have an opinion on anyone you left out of your analysis in post 234?

[competentpsycho]

I can see what you're trying to do there, but this could be a way to give an excuse to a not-so-subtle tutoring of a scumbuddy.

I have to comment on this cuz it made me laugh. I wouldn't be tutoring my scumbuddy and trying to get him lynched at the same time, and at this point skitz has fucked up beyond saving, which is why I am not against giving him advice for later games now. I definitely wouldn't be that blatant as scum, either. Also, if you look back at all the mistakes I have pointed out (as well as others), an intelligent person could extrapolate this advice from those mistakes. To save time for him I just summed it up all in one post, seeing as he doesn't like to read all the posts in the thread anyway.

[Boing]

Boing - do you have an opinion on anyone you left out of your analysis in post 234?

The ones I mentioned are the ones that stood out for me, but I'll widen it a bit.

Neraren seems fairly solid to me. The only real criticism on him that holds any weight in my eyes is 'lurking too much', which isn't necessarily a scumtell and could very well be down to RL factors like he says. There's also CP's point here:

Townies would defend themselves and instead you attack the person who suspects you. Scummy move.

which seems to me to be grasping at straws itself, especially since voting someone that suspects you isn't a scum move if the basis they're suspecting you on is flawed.

Looking back at Mr Mean, something does strike me as odd about his playstyle. He seems to backtrack on his own posts a lot and doesn't really seem too sure of what he's saying. I don't know what to think, but personally I'm going to be keeping an eye on him.

Incidentally, concerning my own lurking: Sorry. It's been a busy week and I've had studying to do, social events, and a relationship that needs maintenance, so this game gets put on the back burner for that. I'll try to be more active.

[Zeppo]

the reason I got into mafia is because of a friend of mine that plays on the SA forums.

What's his name on there?

Max,

Zeppo

, Neraren aren't talking much either, but they have been that way the whole game. The only person here I get big scum vibes from for this is Neraren since he said before that he was busy with school and that his tests are finished now, yet still posts only to defend himself. I have a noose with your name on it man. I also have a sharpie to rename it if you decide to start helping out here. Skitz's noose has his name woven into the rope, so there's almost no way of redeeming himself.

Oh for goodness sake! I got this on another game I'm playing as well. I've been posting pretty much everyday, yesterday was an exception because I was in bed all day. Gimme a break

back on topic - after a quick reread, I think the scum trio is:

skitz
Mr Mean
Neraren

Skitz has really damned himself in my eyes- he's cracked. I'm convinced Neraren is mafia also for lurking then popping up occasionally to try and prop up skitzer. Mr Mean I'm pretty on the fence about. I'm certainly not confident he's scum.

I'd rather

Vote: Neraren

than skitzer actually. I want skitzer about tomorrow and hope that he slips up again and reveals his final scum buddy.

[competentpsycho]

the reason I got into mafia is because of a friend of mine that plays on the SA forums.

What's his name on there?

Dragnix I believe, but I am not on the SA forums so I cannot check for sure until I see him again. You play on the SA forums?

Oh for goodness sake! I got this on another game I'm playing as well. I've been posting pretty much everyday, yesterday was an exception because I was in bed all day. Gimme a break

This is just compared to everyone else - I wouldn't worry about it that much.

Skitz has really damned himself in my eyes- he's cracked. I'm convinced Neraren is mafia also for lurking then popping up occasionally to try and prop up skitzer. Mr Mean I'm pretty on the fence about. I'm certainly not confident he's scum.

I'd rather

Vote: Neraren

than skitzer actually. I want skitzer about tomorrow and hope that he slips up again and reveals his final scum buddy.

Maybe. I would be willing to vote for him if it got to the point where I was needed for the lynch, but I don't think skitz is gonna be much help anymore, considering he knows we know he is mafia. You need to remember though that if we lynch skitz and Neraren we will have 2 more nights for cop investigations, which could help with the other partner, too.

[Zeppo]

True but as ever it relies on the cop guiding the town without getting himself killed, we have no doctor! As long as we know skitz is scum he's pretty impotent and it's just one more avenue to get information, especially if he keeps claiming to be innocent.

I didn't play mafia on SA but it was what made me look up this site.

[Neraren]

Okay, that little exchange tears it for me. CP and Zeppo are ignoring any discussion that has actual merits and talking like its a forgone conclusion that CPs theory is airtight. Not only that, but they know the strongest case (probably the only case CP made) is against skitz, so they shift gears to try and get me lynched instead. They can keep him around as their central scapegoat and keep adjusting their case every round because "...but skitz is so scummy!"

If skitz is the most likely scum in your eyes, vote for skitz. I can respect that, even if I don't agree with it. Voting for someone because "Hey, they don't agree with my theory" is bull and anti-town.

vote competentpsycho

[competentpsycho]

Wow, I am voting for skitz. Yet instead of voting for zeppo who did vote for you, you again choose me. It's like the scum got together last night and decided I was the one to be lynched today. Strange. Anyway - I believe skitz is a better choice and that he probably won't give us much more info, so I wouldn't mind lynching him today, hence my continued vote on him. You on the other hand, along with Mr Mean, are also under my suspicion though. I would rather have a cop investigation done on you two to make sure, as I am positive skitz is scum.

You keep going after me, even though zeppo is the only one that has voted you besides d3sisted, just like the other two I suspect as scum did. What I don't get is why you don't vote for the person with the best case against them, in my opinion skitz, as that would be the pro-town thing to do. Instead you vote for me. Your "case" is that I am trying to get you lynched, but I have said I want skitz lynched, since I am sure he is scum. Looks like you are being anti-town which fits very well with my suspicion. You keep making me suspect you more and more. Please put forth some more shitty arguments against me so I can again prove you wrong and show you for the scum you are. Or try to help the town. Your choice.

[Neraren]

What I don't get is why you don't vote for the person with the best case against them, in my opinion skitz, as that would be the pro-town thing to do.

This right here is EXACTLY what I'm talking about it. "If you aren't voting for who I'm voting for, you are not pro-town." Seriously, what the hell? Combine that with the "Of course YOU would say that, you're probably scum" attitude you have been waving about, and you are single-handedly trying to bandwagon by cutting off anything but agreement at the wick. I've never said there was no case against skitz, just that it hasn't convinced me. You, however, seem to have no room for anything other than your own half-cocked theory and will force every post someone makes into the mold whether it fits or not. It doesn't matter what is said, because whatever it is is

clearly

exactly what scum would say, because they're already scum in your head. That kind of behavior is either A) completely bullheaded and ignorant, or B) scum.

I don't think you're ignorant.

[competentpsycho]

What I don't get is why you don't vote for the person with the best case against them,

in my opinion

skitz, as that would be the pro-town thing to do.

This right here is EXACTLY what I'm talking about it. "If you aren't voting for who I'm voting for, you are not pro-town." Seriously, what the hell? ... more ranting

Note the bolded words "in my opinion". I don't care if you vote for skitz, as long as you vote for someone you have a solid case on - as you tried to say to me, but you voted for me on the reason I am not voting for the person I am sure about but instead trying to lynch you. I have been voting for skitz, and never switched to you - Zeppo did. Therefore your case that I am anti-town because I am not voting for the person I have the best case on is complete BULLSHIT. Thats why I said that to you - vote for someone you actually have a case on. I find it hard to believe that your BS argument against me that is completely based on something I did not do is the best case you have, so if the best one is on me, please, PLEASE present it instead of cases full of holes and shit like the one you just made.

[competentpsycho]

Oh yeah and

I don't think you're ignorant.

Thanks,... I guess.

[competentpsycho]

d3sisted - 3 days
white, max - almost 5 days since last post

You guys still here?

[Erg0]

Prodding Max.

I'll give d3sisted another day before I prod since it's the weekend.

White has told me he's going to be busy for a while, so I may have to replace him. Decision pending.

[competentpsycho]

Thanks Ergo

[d3sisted]

Sorry guys, but it's been a hectic week here, I'll try to get more out by Tuesday night.

Neraren, I think you're misconstruing CP here. I don't think he's telling you to vote for who he thinks is scum, rather who you think is scum.

Wow, I am voting for skitz. Yet instead of voting for zeppo who did vote for you, you again choose me.

So you would rather he do a useless OMGUS than vote for who he thinks is scum?

[competentpsycho]

No, but his case was that we were trying to get him lynched without evidence. That could be a case (though a shitty one) for Zeppo, but like I said he voted for me. Again trying to turn statements around on people, another reason to group Neraren with Mean and skitz. Like I said - I would rather him vote for the person he thinks he has the best case against. An OMGUS vote at this stage is useless if not detrimental to the town. Basically I was just pointing out another inconsistency in his argument. Still waiting for him to try again so I can shoot him down again. They love attacking me for some reason, yet I see no evidence against me that is true and not a twisting of my words.

[Neraren]

I would be willing to vote for him (Neraren) if it got to the point where I was needed for the lynch

"Hey, this skitz train has kinda slowed down. Not nearly enough people are voting for him as I need. Hey guys, what about Neraren? I'll vote for Neraren too if you all wanna get him instead. Guys?"

[Max]

I'm sure I posted earlier

But heres basically what I think:

That We're going to lynch a person who has seemed scummy all game, but I'm still a bit confused about all this I've re-read all of skitzers posts and heres a bit of a post+ that I don't get which I would like answering before I ultimately vote or don't vote

White- weird posting. Very talkative and useful for the town in a general view, than just…shuts down almost. He talks very rarely now. It’s really strange. I can’t really make up mind about him.

White has not posted in a while I agree, but what did you mean about not being able to make up your mind about him. I know you aren't 100% certain about whether he's scum or not but generally after 1 day I know who I think is scum white isn't one of them but what is your gut feeling on the matter.

[competentpsycho]

I would be willing to vote for him (Neraren) if it got to the point where I was needed for the lynch

"Hey, this skitz train has kinda slowed down. Not nearly enough people are voting for him as I need. Hey guys, what about Neraren? I'll vote for Neraren too if you all wanna get him instead. Guys?"

Rather than letting a deadline expire with a no lynch - yeah I would vote for you. Sorry I guess I should have made that more clear but I thought it was implied. Next time I'll use small words and explain REALLY well. The lynch = the lynch. The lynch does not equal lynching you necessarilly. I meant that if my vote was the decision between a no lynch and you and there was no other choice, I would vote for you. A no lynch just helps scum.