Mafia 71: The Corsican Syndicate - Game over!

[Lemming1607]

he never addressed how I was over reacting..he simply quoted me and said I was serious, when I obviously was joking.

He explained I believe twice how you were overreacting. YOU on the other hand choose to just ignore that, and you still do that. You need to get some glasses if you think he didn't think he did.

You were not obviously joking, because you garnered plenty of votes over THIS overreaction that you stipulate doesn't exist. Why do you think everyone voted you if you did nothing wrong?

if you think I over reacted, maybe you could conitnue the "good" fight for him...where did I over react...also, why do you think his vote (at that point) was to get us out of the joke phase?...seems like you have a lot of insight into his motivation...care to explain?

Jesus you are like the epitome of strawman argument and loaded questions.

I already said it's not enough to garner a vote, but your ignorance is starting to make me question whether you are scum or not. I don't like how you just shrug everything off and explain how your OMGUS vote wasn't omgus and you really thought him scum for finding you scummy. That's scummy to me.

He didn't vote you to get out of jokevote phase. Strawman argument. He voted you because he thought you were scum, and as a side consequence, we got out of the joke vote phase. Please read what I said before you make something up and run with it.

[quote='CKD]
also, do you have any comments on the rest of my post?
[/quote]

no

[Lemming1607]

he never addressed how I was over reacting..he simply quoted me and said I was serious, when I obviously was joking.

He explained I believe twice how you were overreacting. YOU on the other hand choose to just ignore that, and you still do that. You need to get some glasses if you think he didn't think he did.

You were not obviously joking, because you garnered plenty of votes over THIS overreaction that you stipulate doesn't exist. Why do you think everyone voted you if you did nothing wrong?

if you think I over reacted, maybe you could conitnue the "good" fight for him...where did I over react...also, why do you think his vote (at that point) was to get us out of the joke phase?...seems like you have a lot of insight into his motivation...care to explain?

Jesus you are like the epitome of strawman argument and loaded questions.

I already said it's not enough to garner a vote, but your ignorance is starting to make me question whether you are scum or not. I don't like how you just shrug everything off and explain how your OMGUS vote wasn't omgus and you really thought him scum for finding you scummy. That's scummy to me.

He didn't vote you to get out of jokevote phase. Strawman argument. He voted you because he thought you were scum, and as a side consequence, we got out of the joke vote phase. Please read what I said before you make something up and run with it.

also, do you have any comments on the rest of my post?

no







fixed tags

[curiouskarmadog]

thank you for fixing the tags.

he didnt explain it, please provide a post number where he explained it. All he did was quote me. He never answered how asking questions and statements like "now that just hurts, BM" was serious or an over reaction. You think that post was a over reaction?

I will even repost the quote that was the "over reaction" and "serious" and spawned the BW...(again, this question is not just for Lemming, it is for all the BWers, who voted for me, claiming it was an over reaction)

Vote: CKD

bandwagon much?

now that just hurts BM...

I placed a second vote on Lazy...you place the second vote on me...you say I am bandwagoning...

I say you are (fill in the blank), the circle begins a new?

are we going to start bumping heads again?

This was an over reaction? You think I was serious, when I told BM I was hurt? I was basically poking fun at BM calling him a hypocrite, without calling him one (which btw, he got the joke) If I was serious or over reacting, why didn’t I even FoS him?


Also, you said.

That's not scummy, that's called "getting us out of the jokevote phase". He unvoted because he didn't want a fast bandwagon.

Reading that statement, it sounds like you knew was Waar’s motivation was. That was a result of his vote, but you state he is not being scummy, because he is getting us out of the joke vote stage...just because his post got us out of the joke vote stage, that clears him in your mind?

[WomensRights]

CKD, I'll explain to you why people keep on thinking that you over-reacted.

No, your first post here:

now that just hurts BM...

I placed a second vote on Lazy...you place the second vote on me...you say I am bandwagoning...

I say you are (fill in the blank), the circle begins a new?

are we going to start bumping heads again?

wasn't an over-reaction. However, your subsequent posts are a litany of "Why am I over reacting? Explain it to me. Why why why why why?" It's all you've been doing this entire thread. Sort the thread to only show your posts, hit "ctrl+F," and do a hunt for the words "over react." It's coming across to me as less you wanting to know what caused it and more of you desperate to know what your scum tell was so you can argue with it ad nauseum. When fully half of this thread has accused you of an over reaction and your only defense is "Why," that says that it's less something that you said right and everyone mis-interpreted and more of you jumping up and down with your hands in the air saying "Look at how little I"m reacting I'm totally not over reacting TELL ME WHAT I DID" while everyone is picking up on it.

There is but a handful of posts in your whole history this game that are actually commenting on the game, all of the others are you leaping down the throat of anyone who mentions your name. I find that scummy, personally, because I find that scum generally sit back on their laurels and wait for either a) an opportune chance to vote ala Lazy or b) someone to call out their name. They don't want people to tie them to a theory or comment, they don't want someone to tie them to anything at all, so they just sit back until they're called on.

That is why people are accusing you of over reacting. Not because of what you originally said. But because of how you've acted this entire thread.

[50 pounds of bread]

CKD since you asked; I still think that there is a good chance you are scum, however I think Garnasha could be doing one of two things.

1. Keeping the heat off of his scumbuddy (if you are scum)
2. Setting up for a, I told you he was town defense tomorrow (if you are town)

Currently I am thinking the switch from you to Garnasha would be a good idea so

Unvote:CKD Vote:Garnasha

but you aren't off the hook yet.

[cicero]

Now that we're in the serious part of the game could you all knock off the colored fonts please. That isn't a normal part of this forum's traditions and speaking for myself I find it annoying/distracting. That being said, It isn't a huge deal and if you choose to ignore me or tell me to piss off, I'm not going to mention it again. Just thought i'd send out a polite request.

[mcpaltp]

where? if I get anything from that, I was calling him a hypocrite..

Ugh why argue semantics? The quote I posted was one where you explained why you didn't agree with his argument. Hence, why you thought it sucked.

again, did you think it sucked?

If I thought it was a serious argument then yes I would agree that placing a vote on someone because they placed a 2nd vote on somebody else in a 19 player game is a shitty argument. However he was joking.

because you are putting words in my mouth that I didnt say.

You are also indicating that I over reacted, but fail explain how I over reacted...you think BM was "joking" (with a vote) yet I was "serious" (with a non vote question post) and over reactted..

unvote vote waar

you have yet to explain to me how my post was an over reaction or serious (when it was obviously a joke)...you are willingly to keep backing and aggressively pushing this vote, when you are obviously in the wrong...

Why I think you are the scummiest is due in a large part by how you got extremely defensive when the discussion about your inital comment, reproduced above, continued beyond into you OMGUSing waar.

I'll be frank here. I had a pretty hard time telling what you were trying to say in your initial comment to BM, all the way back on page 3. I struck me as a little weird, but I wasn't sure what you were trying to say. When waar first posited that it was an overreaction to BM's vote on you, it made sense, but it was in no way a slam dunk for me at all.

Your later comments and subsequent OMGUS of waar are what made me think you were scummy. You seem to be really hung up on waar's or anyone else's prodding and seem outraged that anyone could ever think that your lashing-outs seem scummy. This sort of behavior is what makes me think that you are the scummiest option right now.

TL;dr: The first post: not so over-react-y, the rest? So much.

*Preview Edit* Again, WR? said it better than I could. Putting this out there anyway.

[curiouskarmadog]

WR, if you go back to when the BW started (and I can provide the quote votes if needed)...many peopled jumped on the wagon because of that post stating it was an over reaction, NOT my latter comments. I find this scummy, so that is why I attacked. When I "leap down the throat" of someone who supplies crap excuse for a vote (after the random vote stage), that IS me commenting on the game.

My main point, was that the BW developed for really no reason. Which was fine, because that it typically what happens day 1. What my problem was, that only a few would admit to the fact that that was the reason the BW started. People kept pushing that my original statement was an over reaction, which is false (which you agree with).

WR, if you look back and see who voted and see why they voted, you will understand my anger.

[curiouskarmadog]

mcpaltp, thank you for explaining your opinion. You think I am scummy, because I am over reacting in general, not the initial response. Which is fine and I think you are being honest. But if you put yourself in my shoes, you might understand why I could be angry.

Someone says something you said was an over reaction (when it is obvious that it is not). A bandwagon forms while people provide reasons for votes that you think are false. You being town, see people pushing information that is false. What would you do?

I wasn’t going to sit back and let it pass, if I think something is scummy ( I attack and aggressively so). If you meta game, you will see that I have never seen end game as town, because of this play. My contributions help the town later. I will almost always attack what I find scummy.

[mcpaltp]

Welp, looking it over, I see waar voting you because your comment seemed a little scummy/over-"defensive" to a joke-vote, 50 and lazy jumping on, and you getting nervous and accusational. At the time, it was enough for me to prick up my ears a bit, but lazy's "jokevote" seemed scummier to me.

Right about then was when you started to freak out a little bit over being accused of over reacting. Overreacting to an accusation of overracting, if you will.

I think waar's inital vote on you was to question your rather strange and somewhat scummy response to BR's jokevote, and to see how you responded to a little pressure. I became clear to me that how you responded was, well, by overreacting.

Your complaint about the insta-bandwagon is partially valid, however, as lazy's vote in particular was rather strange, but your reaction to the bandwagon struck me as scummier than a wagon that took you only half way to lynch.

Anyhow, that's just how I saw it.

*preview edit*
Well, if I thought an invalid bandwagon was forming aginst me, I'd address the main issue and then grill the specific members of the BW as to why they thought the main issue was valid.

What it looked like you were doing to me was attack waar for raising a point about you in the first place-- a big difference.

As to the metagame point, I've never been in a game with you before, so I've just been judging your posts on their own merits or lack therof.

[ChronX]

CKD, your biggest scum tell through this incident is that you have kept it alive and argued it and only it endlessly. With the context of the recent game(s?) you were in with BM, and the clash of styles you seem to have with her, I didn't see the original interaction as scummy. I saw others trying to make much of it as more scummy for the opportunism.

This is not an open setup though, so one needs an open mind. I am still deeply suspicious of those interactions that went on and still see possible scum fingerprints, but maybe its scum A on scum B; I don't want to rule in or rule out what the mod may have put us up against. The long term problem I am going to have with your play and that I am going to hold against you is that you are taking the pressure on you personally and playing solely to limit the damage to yourself. Scum need to play as survivors; good towm players recognize that sometimes the bullseye falls on them and need to recall that a bandwagon depends on scum getting aboard to lead to a lynch. A townie needs to play in such a way that the town gains information about who is doing what, why, should they end up getting lynched.

You haven't done this; you are giving off the vibe of a cornered animal fighting tooth and nail for himself only.

While you don't lead my suspect list right now, IGMEOU for sure.

[curiouskarmadog]

CHronx, please see post 297..not just pursuing the "over reaction incident"

waiting on my questions to be answered from this post.

[Lemming1607]

CKD you could also you know, respond to his post instead of trying to deflect attention to your unanswered questions.

Or in someway reference them so that we all don't think you're just ignoring what everyone has said, cause I completely agree with this entire page pretty much.

Also going to read back and explain in detail how you overreacted as per your request

[curiouskarmadog]

for the record, I am requesting how my initial response to BM was a over reaction..dont need to reread that much, I even stated the post for you.

I didnt answer his question, what question or comment did I "over look"?

[curiouskarmadog]

Chronx, was there anything there I needed to address that I didnt?

you stated.

"A townie needs to play in such a way that the town gains information about who is doing what, why, should they end up getting lynched.

You haven't done this"

I directed you to a post where I did just that..is Lemming right, did I miss something?

[Lemming1607]

thank you for fixing the tags.

no prob dude

he didnt explain it, please provide a post number where he explained it. All he did was quote me.

First of all this isn't an english class. I got from the tone of the original post you made that you were not joking. You keep saying you were "obviously" joking, when it wasn't obvious at all. It looked like you were raising your eyebrow at someone putting a second vote on to a joke bandwagon, implying that you saw something fishy. That's what I saw, and to me that's overreacting to jokevotes.

As Chronx said, everyone knows they're going to have the limelight on them at some point in the game, and townies win even if they are dead. Scum are the ones trying to stay alive the entire game. Yes it's wrong to lynch townies, but overdefensive is not what a townie should act like if they know their death also helps the town through information, even if we don't believe them.

as for a post, this is the post he explained himself:

I never said I was half way anywhere.

That wasn't directed towards you, it was directed towards WomensRights

still confused here, how did I over react?

The first post I quoted when I voted for you is where you over reacted

while you were arguing semantics he is arguing scumminess.

He never answered how asking questions and statements like "now that just hurts, BM" was serious or an over reaction. You think that post was a over reaction?

Again this isn't an english class. Second, why are you choosing that one sentence as what we find as overreacting? It's the rest of the post that I find to find overreacting. Why are you picking and choosing words?
I will even repost the quote that was the "over reaction" and "serious" and spawned the BW...(again, this question is not just for Lemming, it is for all the BWers, who voted for me, claiming it was an over reaction)

This was an over reaction? You think I was serious, when I told BM I was hurt? I was basically poking fun at BM calling him a hypocrite, without calling him one (which btw, he got the joke) If I was serious or over reacting, why didn’t I even FoS him?

FoSing is stupid first of all, and if you've noticed I haven't FoS'd you at all this entire time...must mean I'm joking right?

Also, you said.

That's not scummy, that's called "getting us out of the jokevote phase". He unvoted because he didn't want a fast bandwagon.

Reading that statement, it sounds like you knew was Waar’s motivation was. That was a result of his vote, but you state he is not being scummy, because he is getting us out of the joke vote stage...just because his post got us out of the joke vote stage, that clears him in your mind?

AGAIN you are making strawman arguments. I never said it clears him. I'm telling you what I saw, and I thought the reasons for voting for waar was stupid. I think its a townie move to get us out of the jokevote phase.

Christ you seriously need to stop strawmaning everything I say.

As for waar I probably understand him alot better than some other players. I "get" his jokes and his reasoning, because we sorta think alike. Ask anyone that played Diablo mafia. Everytime waar made a joke people thought he was serious, and I told people he was joking...they thought we were linked and post game showed us to be two regular townies.

So yes, defending someone else clearly implies we're linked and could in no way mean anything else


ALSO, I'm getting this weird vibe from you that you're doing your best to discredit me and make everyone think that waar and I talk out of thread and are cheating. You keep implying that I know his reasoning. There's only one way for that to happen and it's called cheating.

If you think we're cheating you best just say it instead of your stupid ass passive aggressive shit.

Before you come in here with "what where you're lying" I'm going to quote you.

also, why do you think his vote (at that point) was to get us out of the joke phase?...seems like you have a lot of insight into his motivation...care to explain?

Reading that statement, it sounds like you knew was Waar’s motivation was.

So either accuse me or stop being retarded

[windshipper]

I am still comfortable with my vote on Waar, I found him scummy when I placed the vote and nothing has yet changed this. Even his unvote (on me) seemed scummy.

Unvoting so that the bandwagon on you doesn't end the day prematurely, in order for discussion to continue is scummy? He did it so that you wouldn't be hammered before any more discussion could happen and that's scummy... You're reaching here, you're reaching to try and find a reason why he's scummy to justify your OMGUS vote it seems.

He started off defending me when if was obviously against the town majority. He had some good observations on what was going on. I understand the theory behind scum knowing someone is about to be hung (town) and vouching or defending them to buy themselves town creds Day 2. I feel like Waar could be doing that now with the unvote. However, I have been the guy (town) who opposed the caseless wagon Day 1 and the town majority. So his defense of me alone is not enough. However, once he was attacked for his defense (mostly by 50 LBs) and it looks like I wont be the fast BW lynch after all he starts to buckle.

Could it also be that you find Garnasha to be townie because he's defending you? Also, the only reason why you've been "the guy (town)" who's been opposed to the "caseless" (i think there is a good case to be made, and it would seem that a goddamn plenty amount of the people in this game would agree) wagon is because

it's against you

. Therefore, you can't really say that his defense of you is a point in his favor, because really dude... you're not exactly impartial in this matter and I just don't get how you get to that conclusion, it's baffling the way your mind seems to work. The case against you is NOT caseless either, so you can't say he's been defending against a "caseless case".

In fact, you've been ignoring everything that everyone says about it in order to say that it's caseless it would seem. Note this post for example:

Someone says something you said was an over reaction (when it is obvious that it is not).

How many people have come out of the woodwork to tell you that you've been overreacting? I'm not asking about those who have said that it's scummy, but those who have come out and just said you've overreacted, scummy or not.

From that number alone, it's obvious to say that IT'S NOT SO OBVIOUS THAT IT WASN'T OVERREACTING. And you're just denying it, constantly. It's not even "Sorry guys, I may have overreacted, that was dumb of me. " It's a constant stream of plugging your ears and babbling over and over and trying to drown out everyone who is saying that you've been overreacting. You're so full of yourself that you CANNOT BE WRONG AT ALL PERIOD. On the one hand, it's kinda funny, on the other hand it's irritating. Either way, you're being scummy by how hard you're refusing to believe that you're overreacting AS WELL as the overreacting in itself.

Post 231

About my defending CKD: I thought his defence was good, and I kept encountering that first reaction which started it all because it was called overreacting which kept being quoted. My opinion was that it wasn't that overreactiong, and bandwagons gather momentum of their own. So my thoughts were that someone probably started a case against CKD to get townie lynched. I didn't defend CKD because he didn't need help with that as he seemed to have the edge of truth, I used the bandwagon on him to look for scum.

If you want CKD lynched, fine, but if he turns out to be town like I think, I'm going after BM for defending waar and pretending not to by voting him while he isn't in any danger of getting lynched. If he turns out to be scum, feel free to lynch me, but once you guys know my alignment, please lynch BM and/or waar for me.

Now it is ok if people want to lynch me, but if I come out town??? He is already setting up his attack for Day 2. If you think I am town, why are you beginning to falter in your beliefs and a defense. IF you are town, dont you want to see scum lynched versus me?

Agreed, that's a valid point. Also, don't tell anyone, but the reason why everyone thinks you should be lynched is because you're acting scummy and so they think you're scum (myself included, but I find Garnasha far more suspicious, at the moment. I'm just inclined to think you're a poor player who's acting retarded, but it could also be a poor scum player who's acting retarded. I'm not willing to rule out either at this point).

Post 247

Alright, seems I was mistaken in thinking CKD was not that scummy. Could someone with some experience give me an estimate how many scum a 19 player game prolly contains? Once I have that info I'll reconsider my vote.

He doesn’t explain why he thinks he is mistaken, there were no posts between his last post in the thread and this one. Actually he wants someone else to do the work for him. Garnasha, what made you change your mind at this point? If you want to help the town, shouldn’t you look for your known facts and draw your own conclusions without being lead around by others?

Wait...anyone else hear an echo in here? I think two people had already commented on this at this point and you're jumping on that which was already said it seems. But that's ok, you're a special boy as you've already demonstrated.

Post 250

I can also add that if more people agree that CKD overreacts in the post that started it all I'll become l;ess suspicious of you.

This post just reeks. You are basically saying, if people jump on my bandwagon, you wont be suspicious of them. You care WAY too much about what this town thinks of you. This tends to be a scum trait (if you need the theory behind that I will provide). You have done a complete 180, without a.) any reason, b.) providing a case of your own and c.) voting me yourself.

Also, after looking through this, beyond your question at the end, I don't see any question

S

that you asked.

Man, after reading these past pages you're looking worse and worse to be honest. I'm sticking with Garnasha for the moment, but I think you're being retarded and I'm not sure if your ignoring of other people's posts is that of mafia or stupid townie. Either way, I'm reasonably certain that Garnasha is scum, but you're not helping yourself at all.

Also, there, someone has responded to your post. Happy? Here, feel better.

[curiouskarmadog]

nice...

insults, good times, good times.

"ALSO, I'm getting this weird vibe from you that you're doing your best to discredit me and make everyone think that waar and I talk out of thread and are cheating. You keep implying that I know his reasoning. There's only one way for that to happen and it's called cheating."

wow, jump in assumptions...your answer should have been I dont know what his motivation was, I am just guessing...you were acting like you knew his motivation when he never stated it.

actually my line of questioning was trying to establish if there was a link between the two of you this game. you were coming to his defense by explaining his vote with information he has never stated, when he could have explained his own vote. I was just trying to figure out why? The thought that you two were talking outside of the thread didnt cross my mind...well, until now that is..

why did you go there first?

[curiouskarmadog]

vote count request

[ChronX]

mod prod on Aimee please?

[mcpaltp]

nice...

*snip* you were coming to his defense by explaining his vote with information he has never stated, when he could have explained his own vote. *snip*

Cite please.

2nding votecount.

[windshipper]

nice...

insults, good times, good times.

I'm sorry, but you keep sticking your fingers in your ears and denying ever having overreacted or acted scummy once when half the game is telling you that you have. It's like you've got a persecution syndrome or something, I don't know, but it's horrible playing if you're a townie and it's making you look absolutely awful.

[windshipper]

I'm done with this for now, I've said my piece.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm done with this for now, I've said my piece.

and the sig?

[windshipper]

I'm done with this for now, I've said my piece.

and the sig?

The signature was earned through hardwork and perseverance.