Mini #516: Canyon City - Abandoned

[Shanba]

I'm not convinced by the idea of killing NPCs (though from a look at the player list, if any are scum then Don Mezzocio is).

[Shanba]

I thought about it, and I don't really like the idea of lynching NPCs. If the ratio of scum NPCs to town NPCS is similar to the ratio of scum to town, lynching an NPC is equivalent to lynching randomly - i.e. likely to be detrimental to town.

[Shanba]

A vague dislike of Phate's last post prompts a

Vote: Phate

. Is everyone aware we're deadlined?

[Shanba]

viewtopic.php?t=1798viewtopic.php?t=4861
Both of these are examples of scum making jokes - in the first, I jokeclaimed scum d1. In the second, EmpTyger jokeclaims scum halfway through day 1 - he ended getting lynched for it (and also got his title). Now, it's not an exactly comparable situation, as he didn't fakeclaim scum. However, it's enough of a scumtell for me to base my d1 vote on. Also, I dislike the way he asks us to move forward without actually doing anything about it in the post I said I disliked.

[Shanba]

phate, linking ongoing games in normally considered bad form, as it gives clues to your alignment oustide of the thread. Specifically, I'm going to forbid you to say anything about my game - I'm sure the mods of the other games feel similarly.

However, the gist of your argument is that you like to joke aroun and therefore it's not scummy for you to. Perhaps that is true. I don't know you well enough yet to offer an opinion on that. Until I form a metagame read on you, there's little point in me pursuing this further. Consider the point dropped.

However, there's still the second point - I don't like the way you asked us to contribute without doing it yourself. It's not damning, but it' good enough for my 1st non random vote.

[Shanba]

If I was scum, what possible benefit would I have by making a joke about the scum claiming or by humourously (to me, anyway) trying to spur activity? It seems to me that you're just looking for a wagon to jump onto.

You would be trying too hard to fit in and make jokes, like you're acting relaxed. It does look like you are trying to appear townie right now.

The way you are being so dismissive and adamant about how your actions aren't scummy is enough for me to vote for you. I think it might be a slip that you are SO hard attacking the premise of the argument (that you joking is scummy) and aren't really addressing the conclusion (you are scum). Does everybody see what I mean there? I'm not sure if it's clear. I think he's doing the classic "well, you can't PROVE that I killed her"-guilty-conscience thing. It's not huge, but at this point in the game I haven't seen anything better to go on.

I actually disagree up to here. The first seems to be condemning him because he's defensive, which is not a scumtell (neither scum nor town should let themselves be lynched). The second paragraph I don't agree with either - I would be more worried if someone only attacked the conclusion (No! I'm not scum! Honest!") than the argument. The guilty conscience thing is interesting, but not really applicable to mafia - scum in mafia don't feel guilty for killing people at night and therefore the psychological factor which pushes them deny things like that is gone. Also, the difference between real life and Mafia is in Mafia it doesn't matter if you can prove it or not - so long as you can show that it's likely, you can take down the scum. In reality, you have to have proof.

Also, that you were criticizing others for lack of content without going after scum first bothers me. You're showing now that you'll post a lot to defend yourself, but you haven't done anything to look for scum. I think being so self-centered and unhelpful is a decent scum tell.

Vote: Phate

This bit I agree with though.

[Shanba]

Shanba, please clarify and your opinion of my status.

I still see your post as an early game scumtell, and I still feel it's worthy of my vote. That said, I wouldn't be pleased to see you lynched over it - but voting such tells is a good way to get out of the random stage. I am pleased with your responses to Spambot, who I feel is getting tunnel-visioned somewhat (although, since he just voted for kabenon, that changes things XD). I don't think the case against you is as strong as he makes out, but I haven't seen anything significantly scummier. I'm also not paying a whole lot of attention (apologies).

[Shanba]

Unvote vote groinhammer

[Shanba]

Seeing as how he posted an analysis beforehand, the comparison isn't really warranted Phate.

[Shanba]

I know, but it seems like you're downplaying the suspicion on you by comparing the two - yours was scummy, his was not.

[Shanba]

Uhm, mostly cause the vote count is wrong.

[Shanba]

Please explain who that was referring to, and how we are not allowed 2 hours between your claim and responding :\

At any rate, it's easily testable, even if it doesn't entirely clear you (sk possibility, as with any vig claim). We may as well tkae out one of the NPC's with a scummy rolename - try Don or Paul Mezzocio.

[Shanba]

the five people who haven't picked up their prods would be legitimately inactive, seeing as, how, you know, they didn't pick up their prods and all.

I'm sorry. I'm in a snarky mood.

[Shanba]

Currently, Kab is still the lynch.

Unvote Vote: Spambot

. I think that puts him at 3, above kabenon.

[Shanba]

Eh, he claimed he could only kill NPCs, which means he can't really go by who is scummiest.

[Shanba]

I dislike the way this wagon is growing.

[Shanba]

A "town powerrole" claim is an ideal scum cover when under pressure, since they don't have to commit to claiming an actual role, they don't have to risk a possible counterclaim, and it may be enough to shed a couple of votes.

This may or may not be true, but I haven't actually ever seen scum claim this.

[Shanba]

A "town powerrole" claim is an ideal scum cover when under pressure, since they don't have to commit to claiming an actual role, they don't have to risk a possible counterclaim, and it may be enough to shed a couple of votes.

This may or may not be true, but I haven't actually ever seen scum claim this.

Me neither, but on paper, it's more beneficial for the scum to claim it than for town to, IMO...

In which case it's not really very good evidence of him being scum, then, is it?

[Shanba]

A "town powerrole" claim is an ideal scum cover when under pressure, since they don't have to commit to claiming an actual role, they don't have to risk a possible counterclaim, and it may be enough to shed a couple of votes.

This may or may not be true, but I haven't actually ever seen scum claim this.

Me neither, but on paper, it's more beneficial for the scum to claim it than for town to, IMO...

In which case it's not really very good evidence of him being scum, then, is it?

If an action appears to be more useful for a scum to perform than a townie to, then the performing of it is a slight scumtell.

That action appears to be more useful for a scum to take (correct me if I'm wrong), and so it is a slight scumtell.

This premise is wrong. Something is a scumtelll if and only if scum do it more than town. It doesn't matter whether it's beneficial to scum (that might explain why it is a scumtell) but unless scum do it more than town it's not, well, indicative of scum.

[Shanba]

Er....I dont really know how I feel about this current discussion. I'm thinking I might have to take Shanbas side in it, but its really irrelevant. Its a meta issue, and I suggest we abandon it.

I guess so. It's important as flea is using it as a justification for an action, but what's more important than whether it's true or not is whether he believes it's true, which it seems like he does. Still...

Flea, do you still think that's a valid justification for the pressure?

[Shanba]

yah yah I'm here.

Tbh, I'm ever so slightly breathless after that post. Lot's of information in a little space. I don't think it's worth responding to all of it, so I'mma ask you which bits you think I ought to respond to? Which bits do you feel are the most important?

[Shanba]

Hi.

I'm struggling with gameload atm. I apologise for neglecting this one.

[Shanba]

I'm sorry about the way this turned out, guys, but I'm going to declare this one abandoned. We needed eleven replacements by mid-day 2, and I think that when you start getting to that level, playing a mafia game becomes so much more like a chore than a fun activity that there really isn't any point in continuing. It seems like for every person I manage to get in, another person drops out and the game dies a little more. It's early in the game, and we only have five of the original players left, with several of the players on their third person playing it. It's not even like these troubles are over, as Mole and TDP both need replacement at this point.

Considering the immense time I put into this game, I'm hugely sorry to be calling the game like this, but I reckon it's the right choice.

I'm really, really sorry about this. At least now I won't see the thread and feel guilty about not posting in it.

[Shanba]

Eh.

I'm not sure who would have won here. Michael Malloy winning was almost a given, though