Open 43 - C9+2 GAME OVER before 499

[Setael]

I think it would've been wise for everyone to do their own reread, but I'll give my analysis and then you can do your own reread of him.

I don't really think there has been enough activity to do a PBPA analysis of everyone, and TylerJ's is reasonably accurate

The first thing I found noteworthy was this post, in which he hides behind tyler's suspicions. I don't see a townie taking another townie's pbpa and saying it's "reasonably accurate". The wording is scummy and reeks of insider info.

He then makes a big deal out of ryan "claiming townie" which is extremely opportunistic. His whole stance on this issue felt scummy - Tyler brought it up first and it was ridiculous in the first place. The Townie reaction would've been to realize that saying "I'm Town" is not a claim. Deathsauce's support of TYler's idea looks like scum fueling the flames.

He posts a few times merely to say "I'm happy with my vote." Scum is motivated to post enough to look like they're not lurking without adding content or posting suspicions, and this is what these feel like.

Tries to create a ryan/MoS link, and then throws some suspicion onto CA and says he agrees with ryan and MoS about it. In next post says "let's get MoS" but leaves his vote on ryan. The "let's get MoS" is particularly scummy considering it's not even accompanied by a vote.

Well this definitely got interesting, I'm willing to give JDodge another day to show us his amazing revelation, what can it hurt? But if I''m not amazed, I will probably vote for him.

I didn't explain why I voted him for this post because I thought it was pretty slap-you-in-the-face obvious. Evidently I was wrong, so I'll break it down for you. He leaves himself open to vote JDodge for no reason at all. His sole reason for suspecting JDodge is ... oh wait, there is none. He's not suspicious of JDodge, he just thinks this interaction with ryan should result in an amazing revelation. And if it doesn't? Well then he's going to vote JDodge for it. That basically amounts to having absolutely no reason to vote him. It's incredibly opportunistic - a vote based solely on the fact that JDodge is provoking players enough that scum will be able to push a bandwagon without taking much heat since a few Townies are annoyed. Deathsauce's vote was pretty obviously not for any scumminess on JDodge's part at all. It was just an easy mislynch so scum jumped on it.

However, JDodge, your argument just doesn't hold water for me. It basically boils down to "ryan is willing to vote for someone that could be a townie", but that is true for all of us. No one is ever completely sure of who is scum and who is town, how could they be? You just vote for who you are reasonably certain is scum.

True to his word, Deathsauce votes JDodge solely for not providing an amazing revelation. He says JDodge's argument wasn't good enough. And... that is reason for a -1 vote. Does no one else see how obvious this is? He gave NO reason at any time for thinking JDodge was scum. The only thing he said was that he didn't like JDodge's argument with ryan. Is this the ONLY argument JDodge has disagreed with all game? Because it sure seems insignificant as far as reasons to put someone at -1 go.

He then tries to twist my words and says I said "where you put your vote isn't a scumtell" which I never said. Lynch all liars would be helpful here. He then won't admit that there's a world of difference between the second vote and a L-1 vote.

Nice how you guys are already setting up your next lynch before we even know JDodge's alignment, I am thinking it's a Setael/Vampy or Setael/ Chocolate Attack scumpair, since we throwing out ideas and all.

First, this is OMGUS since the only reason Deathsauce has given to suspect me is the fact that I suspect him. He didn't look twice at me before that.

Frankly, it's obvious that JDodge's wagon was scum driven. I think Deathsauce felt comfortable hiding behind ryan because most of JDodge's interaction was directy with ryan. So he thought he could support the mislynch and then pin the blame on ryan the next day. I for one am not buying it. ryan is not the one who came up looking scummy after that mislynch, but Deathsauce sure did.

[DeathSauce]

I think it would've been wise for everyone to do their own reread, but I'll give my analysis and then you can do your own reread of him.

I don't really think there has been enough activity to do a PBPA analysis of everyone, and TylerJ's is reasonably accurate

The first thing I found noteworthy was this post, in which he hides behind tyler's suspicions. I don't see a townie taking another townie's pbpa and saying it's "reasonably accurate". The wording is scummy and reeks of insider info.

This is not even worth responding to. I felt TylerJ's analysis was "reasonably accurate", simple truth.

He then makes a big deal out of ryan "claiming townie" which is extremely opportunistic. His whole stance on this issue felt scummy - Tyler brought it up first and it was ridiculous in the first place. The Townie reaction would've been to realize that saying "I'm Town" is not a claim. Deathsauce's support of TYler's idea looks like scum fueling the flames.

It's called "scum hunting". You look for inconsistencies and odd behavior. I brought it up originally because Tyler said he thought ryan had claimed but couldn't find it, I found it. Saying "I'm town" early on Day One

IS

a claim and is odd behavior, you will not convince me otherwise no matter how many times you repeat it.

He posts a few times merely to say "I'm happy with my vote." Scum is motivated to post enough to look like they're not lurking without adding content or posting suspicions, and this is what these feel like.

Again, meaningless.

Tries to create a ryan/MoS link, and then throws some suspicion onto CA and says he agrees with ryan and MoS about it. In next post says "let's get MoS" but leaves his vote on ryan. The "let's get MoS" is particularly scummy considering it's not even accompanied by a vote.

Once again I was calling out oddness. MoS was an early and strident critic of ryan, then suddenly switched and began defending him once a few votes built up. You don't think that constitutes a possible link? Are you trying to be blind? The "let's get MoS" was in direct response to MoS posting "Let's run up Setael and JDodge. GOGOGO." I guess that post isn't scummy but mine is?

Well this definitely got interesting, I'm willing to give JDodge another day to show us his amazing revelation, what can it hurt? But if I''m not amazed, I will probably vote for him.

I didn't explain why I voted him for this post because I thought it was pretty slap-you-in-the-face obvious. Evidently I was wrong, so I'll break it down for you. He leaves himself open to vote JDodge for no reason at all. His sole reason for suspecting JDodge is ... oh wait, there is none. He's not suspicious of JDodge, he just thinks this interaction with ryan should result in an amazing revelation. And if it doesn't? Well then he's going to vote JDodge for it. That basically amounts to having absolutely no reason to vote him. It's incredibly opportunistic - a vote based solely on the fact that JDodge is provoking players enough that scum will be able to push a bandwagon without taking much heat since a few Townies are annoyed. Deathsauce's vote was pretty obviously not for any scumminess on JDodge's part at all. It was just an easy mislynch so scum jumped on it.

Bullshit. JDodge was badgering ryan for FOUR PAGES on some meaningless point, attempting to draw out something to convince us that ryan was scum. He failed to convince ANYONE. Numerous players in the game have stated that JDodge's behavior and playstyle were unacceptable, but once again you single me out.

However, JDodge, your argument just doesn't hold water for me. It basically boils down to "ryan is willing to vote for someone that could be a townie", but that is true for all of us. No one is ever completely sure of who is scum and who is town, how could they be? You just vote for who you are reasonably certain is scum.

True to his word, Deathsauce votes JDodge solely for not providing an amazing revelation. He says JDodge's argument wasn't good enough. And... that is reason for a -1 vote. Does no one else see how obvious this is? He gave NO reason at any time for thinking JDodge was scum. The only thing he said was that he didn't like JDodge's argument with ryan. Is this the ONLY argument JDodge has disagreed with all game? Because it sure seems insignificant as far as reasons to put someone at -1 go.

Once again you are blind. Did you miss the fact that FOUR PAGES of this game were nothing but JDodge and ryan arguing? Can you point out another argument like that in this game? In the next paragraph you are going to say I am twisting your words, but that's all your argument here consists of.

He then tries to twist my words and says I said "where you put your vote isn't a scumtell" which I never said. Lynch all liars would be helpful here. He then won't admit that there's a world of difference between the second vote and a L-1 vote.

The fact is that you were strongly and definitely implying that vote placement isn't a scumtell, it's the entire point of your post

If so, could you please stop making such a huge deal about every time I am the second vote? Evidently it doesn't have the connotation you think it does, since you've been wrong about it twice now.

So your whole argument is that vote placement isn't a scumtell if it's the second vote, but it IS a scumtell if it's the L-1 vote? That is rank hypocrisy, plain and simple.

Nice how you guys are already setting up your next lynch before we even know JDodge's alignment, I am thinking it's a Setael/Vampy or Setael/ Chocolate Attack scumpair, since we throwing out ideas and all.

First, this is OMGUS since the only reason Deathsauce has given to suspect me is the fact that I suspect him. He didn't look twice at me before that.

That post was made with my tongue firmly in my cheek, it is obviously an OMGUS joke. The fact that you can't see the ridiculousness of naming scumpairs after chastising others for naming scumpairs is telling.

Frankly, it's obvious that JDodge's wagon was scum driven. I think Deathsauce felt comfortable hiding behind ryan because most of JDodge's interaction was directy with ryan. So he thought he could support the mislynch and then pin the blame on ryan the next day. I for one am not buying it. ryan is not the one who came up looking scummy after that mislynch, but Deathsauce sure did.

Frankly, it is not at all obvious that Dodge's wagon was "scum driven", since other players that didn't vote Dodge have noted the scumminess of Dodge's play. But let's assume it was "scum driven", who was driving that wagon? It was ryan! Who is my vote on? ryan! Amazing!

It is plain to me that your attempt to paint thinktank as scum didn't pan out, so you are selecting a different target. Nice try, but none of your arguments hold water.

[ryan]

Actually Deathsauce, you haven't voted ANYONE here in Day 2.

[DeathSauce]

Oops, you're right, should have said "FoS". I'm sure Setael will find a way to paint that as scummy.

[Setael]

This is not even worth responding to. I felt TylerJ's analysis was "reasonably accurate", simple truth.

Read "not worth responding to" as "I have no defense for this."

He then makes a big deal out of ryan "claiming townie" which is extremely opportunistic. His whole stance on this issue felt scummy - Tyler brought it up first and it was ridiculous in the first place. The Townie reaction would've been to realize that saying "I'm Town" is not a claim. Deathsauce's support of TYler's idea looks like scum fueling the flames.

It's called "scum hunting". You look for inconsistencies and odd behavior. I brought it up originally because Tyler said he thought ryan had claimed but couldn't find it, I found it. Saying "I'm town" early on Day One IS a claim and is odd behavior, you will not convince me otherwise no matter how many times you repeat it.

Please give the post number where you "brought it up originally" because as I remember it, Tyler said it first and you supported and emphasized the idea when the Townie reaction would've been to see that it wasn't a claim and it was a nonissue.

He posts a few times merely to say "I'm happy with my vote." Scum is motivated to post enough to look like they're not lurking without adding content or posting suspicions, and this is what these feel like.

Again, meaningless.

Again, read "I have no defense for this."

Tries to create a ryan/MoS link, and then throws some suspicion onto CA and says he agrees with ryan and MoS about it. In next post says "let's get MoS" but leaves his vote on ryan. The "let's get MoS" is particularly scummy considering it's not even accompanied by a vote.

Once again I was calling out oddness. MoS was an early and strident critic of ryan, then suddenly switched and began defending him once a few votes built up. You don't think that constitutes a possible link? Are you trying to be blind? The "let's get MoS" was in direct response to MoS posting "Let's run up Setael and JDodge. GOGOGO." I guess that post isn't scummy but mine is?

I didn't say his wasn't scummy, but yes yours is.

Well this definitely got interesting, I'm willing to give JDodge another day to show us his amazing revelation, what can it hurt? But if I''m not amazed, I will probably vote for him.

I didn't explain why I voted him for this post because I thought it was pretty slap-you-in-the-face obvious. Evidently I was wrong, so I'll break it down for you. He leaves himself open to vote JDodge for no reason at all. His sole reason for suspecting JDodge is ... oh wait, there is none. He's not suspicious of JDodge, he just thinks this interaction with ryan should result in an amazing revelation. And if it doesn't? Well then he's going to vote JDodge for it. That basically amounts to having absolutely no reason to vote him. It's incredibly opportunistic - a vote based solely on the fact that JDodge is provoking players enough that scum will be able to push a bandwagon without taking much heat since a few Townies are annoyed. Deathsauce's vote was pretty obviously not for any scumminess on JDodge's part at all. It was just an easy mislynch so scum jumped on it.

Bullshit. JDodge was badgering ryan for FOUR PAGES on some meaningless point, attempting to draw out something to convince us that ryan was scum. He failed to convince ANYONE. Numerous players in the game have stated that JDodge's behavior and playstyle were unacceptable, but once again you single me out.

"Unacceptable" does not mean scummy. My point, which you ignored, is that you weren't voting JDodge because you thought he was scum. Even now you say the reason you voted him was because "his behavior was unacceptable." The issue I have with this is the fact that you voted to put someone at -1 that you did not think was scummy. You saw that his behavior was pissing off a few townies and he would therefore be an easy lynch. You knew you would be able to hide behind ryan since ryan was the main one attacking jdodge, and that is exactly what you're doing.

You are right that JDodge didn't convince anyone that ryan is scum, but it did convince me that you are scum from your willingness to opportunistically take out JDodge.

True to his word, Deathsauce votes JDodge solely for not providing an amazing revelation. He says JDodge's argument wasn't good enough. And... that is reason for a -1 vote. Does no one else see how obvious this is? He gave NO reason at any time for thinking JDodge was scum. The only thing he said was that he didn't like JDodge's argument with ryan. Is this the ONLY argument JDodge has disagreed with all game? Because it sure seems insignificant as far as reasons to put someone at -1 go.

Once again you are blind. Did you miss the fact that FOUR PAGES of this game were nothing but JDodge and ryan arguing? Can you point out another argument like that in this game? In the next paragraph you are going to say I am twisting your words, but that's all your argument here consists of.

I don't think you're twisting my words, I think you're avoiding the point. What does the fact that there were four pages of JDodge and ryan arguing have to do with anything? Why do you think that automatically means one of them is scum? In fact, now that we know JDodge is town, it makes a lot more sense that ryan is town now as well because it is unlikely that scum would push that hard knowing their opponent is going to come up town and make them look really badly. The much more likely scenario is that scum (you specifically) saw that JDodge could easily be mislynched just for his playstyle, which is the only reason you had, and then all the attention and blame could be thrown at ryan.

The fact is that you were strongly and definitely implying that vote placement isn't a scumtell, it's the entire point of your post Setael wrote:

If so, could you please stop making such a huge deal about every time I am the second vote? Evidently it doesn't have the connotation you think it does, since you've been wrong about it twice now.

So your whole argument is that vote placement isn't a scumtell if it's the second vote, but it IS a scumtell if it's the L-1 vote? That is rank hypocrisy, plain and simple.

The more you try to insist that a 2nd vote and a -1 vote is the same thing, the scummier you look. I appreciate you quoting my post where in I specify that I am referring to a 2nd vote which makes it much more obvious that your argument makes no sense. You are comparing a 2nd vote with a -1 vote that has been made without reason. I am not saying that every -1 vote is a scumtell, I am saying that yours was because you did not think JDodge was scummy and you did not say that JDodge was scummy and you STILL aren't saying your vote was for scumminess. It was for his playstyle. It was because he was annoying townies and you saw an opportunity to hide behind ryan and push a mislynch.

First, this is OMGUS since the only reason Deathsauce has given to suspect me is the fact that I suspect him. He didn't look twice at me before that.

That post was made with my tongue firmly in my cheek, it is obviously an OMGUS joke. The fact that you can't see the ridiculousness of naming scumpairs after chastising others for naming scumpairs is telling.

What do you mean by "it's telling?" Are you saying you think I'm scum? It feels like you are trying to imply it without saying it so you can avoid being called out for OMGUS.

Frankly, it's obvious that JDodge's wagon was scum driven. I think Deathsauce felt comfortable hiding behind ryan because most of JDodge's interaction was directy with ryan. So he thought he could support the mislynch and then pin the blame on ryan the next day. I for one am not buying it. ryan is not the one who came up looking scummy after that mislynch, but Deathsauce sure did.

Frankly, it is not at all obvious that Dodge's wagon was "scum driven", since other players that didn't vote Dodge have noted the scumminess of Dodge's play. But let's assume it was "scum driven", who was driving that wagon? It was ryan! Who is my vote on? ryan! Amazing!

When a townie is lynched not for being scummy but for having an obnoxious playstyle, I guarantee you there are scum pushing that wagon. They know it will be easy to get townies on board and the mislynch will be much easier. Also, where ryan was attacking JDodge so much it's pretty much a given that scum would see that opportunity and get JDodge mislynched so they could pin it on ryan.

It is plain to me that your attempt to paint thinktank as scum didn't pan out, so you are selecting a different target. Nice try, but none of your arguments hold water.

No one is disagreeing that thinktank did some scummy looking things. I was not taking newbishness into account which could account for a lot of it. This was a noble effort to discredit me, but it's not going to work. My arguments againt you do hold water. Your defense was weak at best and I'm confident the Town will see that you were instrumental in that JDodge lynch, while being sure to keep your hands from getting dirty.

[DeathSauce]

Setael, all I can say is re-read my posts about JDodge. I very clearly called him out as scum. I don't know why you get the impression I didn't think he was scummy unless it was from a mis-reading of my point about never really

knowing

if someone was scum, which was actually part of my argument against JDodge.

Also, I do not claim to have brought the ryan-claim thing up originally, I meant that I brought the topic up simply because I found the post that Tyler had missed. I probably phrased that sentence poorly. A tangential point is that you keep saying that ryan said "I'm town", but he specifically said "townie", not "town".

[Mastermind of Sin]

I like DeathSauce's defense today. Let's run up Setael. He went after DeathSauce for "congratulating the doc", even though three other people, including ryan, had already commented on it before him. I think Setael is pushing the DS case way too hard.

Vote: Setael

[Setael]

Wow. I'm amazed you'd dismiss my case on Deathsauce like that, MoS. I don't think you can really believe I am scum and Deathsauce is innocent after the JDodge lynch and this Deathsauce case which is pretty damn solid. The only thing that makes sense is that you are Deathsauce's scum buddy trying to distract before the rest of the town can realize what obvscum he is.

The irony of it is that I saw a lot of reasons to suspect Mos and Deathsauce as a scum pair during my reread, but I didn't want to emphasize that because I knew that if I was right, MoS would be able to use that to distract from the Deathsauce case. I'll be shocked if Deathsauce isn't scum, and I wouldn't be surprised if MoS is his buddy.

Can I get a few Townies to comment on Deathsauce? So far I've only heard from the scums.

[ryan]

Setael: I'd see a Deathsauce/Vampy scumpair before I'd see a Deathsauce/MoS pair at this point.

[Setael]

In that case, how do you explain MoS completely dismissing the Deathsauce case? I don't see how a townie would possibly react the way MoS did.

[ryan]

In that case, how do you explain MoS completely dismissing the Deathsauce case? I don't see how a townie would possibly react the way MoS did.

Impatience is all I can think of. JDodge's lynch didn't give me as much information as I had hoped (I'll admit)

[ChocolateAttack]

Nice how you guys are already setting up your next lynch before we even know JDodge's alignment, I am thinking it's a Setael/Vampy or Setael/ Chocolate Attack scumpair, since we throwing out ideas and all.

Would u like to point out to me or give me a reason why you suspect me and Setael is a scum pair?

[ChocolateAttack]

In that case, how do you explain MoS completely dismissing the Deathsauce case? I don't see how a townie would possibly react the way MoS did.

He didn't dismiss the DS case, he actually look more into it as he ask if anyone want to jump on your bandwagon. And yeah, i feel interesting now, that DS fos me for being your scum pair and you push your vote on DS with not a really strong argument. If i can have 2 votes i will probably vote for you too, but let see who come out more scumy.

FOS: DeathSauce

FOS: Setael

[Setael]

*sigh*

This game drives me batty.

[ryan]

CA: So you believe Setael and DS are distancing right now? I'm sorry but I don't see that

[thinktank]

Ryan does not seem like a good vote for today. He was pushing the JDodge wagon WAY too hard if he were scum, unless he was incompetent, which he is not, or incredibly sneaky which seems unreasonable.

Deathsauce you said that Ryan was your main target for this day? I don't agree with that for the reason stated above. Who do you think is the scum pair and why?

[ryan]

JDodge was EXTREMELY scummy with his play and lack of explaining himself to the game. How he wasn't scum is beyond me.

[Setael]

I never thought he was scum. You were blinded by his playstyle.

[ryan]

I never thought he was scum. You were blinded by his playstyle.

And his playstyle was anti town and in my book anti town=scum. Of course you can NOW say you didn't think he was scum when he has been shown as scum, convenient post there.

[DeathSauce]

Ryan does not seem like a good vote for today. He was pushing the JDodge wagon WAY too hard if he were scum, unless he was incompetent, which he is not, or incredibly sneaky which seems unreasonable.

Deathsauce you said that Ryan was your main target for this day? I don't agree with that for the reason stated above. Who do you think is the scum pair and why?

Hahahaha, have you ever played in a game with ryan? He definitely has the ability to be "incredibly sneaky".

Anyway, there are too many candidates for scum in this game for me to try and narrow down a scumpair at this time. I have a few players that I believe to be town but many more that are still on the fence.

[Setael]

@ryan: I said I thought JDodge was NOT scum several times before he was lynched. Evidently you were too one-track minded to notice that I was trying to talk you out of the lynch. Maybe you need a reread to clear your head.

@Deathsauce: You may get lucky and convince a few townies that ryan is scum with statements like "He definitely has the ability to be incredibly sneaky". I see through it and the more you try to paint him as scummy, the more it makes you look like scum.

[ryan]

Ryan does not seem like a good vote for today. He was pushing the JDodge wagon WAY too hard if he were scum, unless he was incompetent, which he is not, or incredibly sneaky which seems unreasonable.

Deathsauce you said that Ryan was your main target for this day? I don't agree with that for the reason stated above. Who do you think is the scum pair and why?

Hahahaha, have you ever played in a game with ryan? He definitely has the ability to be "incredibly sneaky".

Anyway, there are too many candidates for scum in this game for me to try and narrow down a scumpair at this time. I have a few players that I believe to be town but many more that are still on the fence.

LOL, come on Deathsauce, I'm as townie as they come, my style is aggressive and if you want to call that scummy you can feel free but I get the job done and a win for the town just like this game

[ChocolateAttack]

CA: So you believe Setael and DS are distancing right now? I'm sorry but I don't see that

No! i don't believe that the case, it just their play style and the way they play right now lead me into a little thinking.

[ryan]

CA: So you believe Setael and DS are distancing right now? I'm sorry but I don't see that

No! i don't believe that the case, it just their play style and the way they play right now lead me into a little thinking.

Thinking what?

[ChocolateAttack]

DS: it either you miss my post 636 or you ignored me.



Sorry! i know, bad double post................................