Gistou (Over!)

[Luna Fox]

Or more exactly, dave posted something i agreed with, which helped me reach that conclusion.

[Wayward Thinker]

someone explain why they felt the aggression and calling so many people scum is scummy

Because he's been calling me scum

for no reason

and i don't like that

No, this is why Luna Fox is voting me.

"Because he's accusing me and when I'm town I OMGUS people "

Fixed that for you.
Maybe just maybe if you want to ML people you should at least try to read their posts you know.

Yes, but you don't actually think that I'm scum. You just don't like it when people call you scum, and the first reason that bring up is that you don't like being voted, not that you think it's a scumtell or anything.

It's as if you gave an RVS justification for a vote that's supposed to be serious and that's scummy as fuck.

Yes except for the game where I played with your main and basically trolled, didn't explain my read on you at all and you got upset about it.

Isn't that the blitz game where you were scum.

You're blatantly lying about your meta knowledge of my play to accuse me of being scum, and you're scum.

Blatantly lying? no, Misremembering maybe, I don't go fact check everytime I remember something. And I'm all ears and open to your explanations i've been all game, yet you still haven't explained a single thing about your scumread on me.

This is complete bullshit, we have played 3 games and you somehow only managed to remember the one from like a year ago, and claimed that it was the only game. You're clearly pretending to misremember.

You probably forgot that I knew who your main was, and thought you could get away with lying. You are deliberately faking your understanding of my meta and that basically confirms you as scum. Like, it's an explicit thing.

You could not say this in earnest after saying things like this in the past.

This is why I am Town reading Exp. I don't see Scum coming up with reasons like this.

[No Retreat]

@Heartless ok so....I called him null, Luna asked why a50 was all up in your grill and then you pushed back on me. Would you say that is correct?

[Titus]

purple flying monster

I would prefer Yellow magic fox instead

Ok.

[Wayward Thinker]

Vote: Luna Fox

Booooo!

[Heartless]

@Heartless ok so....I called him null, Luna asked why a50 was all up in your grill and then you pushed back on me. Would you say that is correct?

no i said your reasons for calling the "pgo claim" town were crap

[No Retreat]

Why are people voting? This game hasn't even started, have they?

I can't believe we found scum before the game even began...

I didn't much like either of these posts. I know we've talked a little about the second one but why in the world would you say that...like whats the point?

You also voted TWIE for sheeping but not Luna so that's p strange. Other than that you don't really have anything. So why should I not want your head on a pike?

[Wayward Thinker]

I'm most likely to vote on ppl out of PoE at this point.

Whoa, PoE in a 28 player in d1?
That's going to take a heap of explaining.

Because i currently dont feel any of the current wagons, I feel like we're missing something.

It's d1.

In a large.

That's a likelihood.

If it's a likelihood what was the point of dave's question.

PoE implies you have a number of townreads you are unwilling to vote.

D1.

In a large.

Yeah, I get that, but don't through the baby out with the bath water.

[No Retreat]

@Heartless ok so....I called him null, Luna asked why a50 was all up in your grill and then you pushed back on me. Would you say that is correct?

no i said your reasons for calling the "pgo claim" town were crap

Should I vote you for this misrep y/n?

[Heartless]

what the fuck are you talking about nero?

[No Retreat]

you are experienced enough to know that its the correct play to claim a negative (miller/PGO what have you not) utility role early.

[Heartless]

His claim's a double edged sword, because night active roles cant confirm his alignment either.

*twitch twitch twitch*

/gasp

you mean there's clear scum motivation for not wanting to be targeted at night and your earlier point was crap?

oh no...

oh wait... "twitch" means something... i forgot

[Heartless]

you are experienced enough to know that its the correct play to claim a negative (miller/PGO what have you not) utility role early.

yes... i even said that myself to toog

did i ever say otherwise?

[Wayward Thinker]

Titus is just scum

Why?

[No Retreat]

YES!

[Heartless]

where?

[No Retreat]

@Heartless ok so....I called him null, Luna asked why a50 was all up in your grill and then you pushed back on me. Would you say that is correct?

no i said your reasons for calling the

"pgo claim" town were crap

[Luna Fox]

Correct play =/= Town Claim
Just saying.

[Heartless]

read it again

and again

and again

until you understand that "all pgo claims are town" and "all town pgos should claim"

ARE FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT STATEMENTS

[No Retreat]

like if you agree that claiming a negitive utility role is the correct play why is it crap for me to think that action was pro-town?

[Tim]

Vote: Wayward Thinker

After reading over that iso fully, I think my vote is best placed here. (well maybe not when A50 is right there)

After the early game posts from LQ which I think were scummy, there are even more gripes I have with the push on Rb and the way the nosferatu read was handled.

Post 492 develops it (along with less than reasonable town reads imo) while post 500 expands on it with a reason that wouldn't be considered scummy (it's town's job to push their opinions, how else are they going to convince people to lynch someone they think is scum?). But that's as far as it gets. Already in post 501 it slowly dissolves, and I don't see why it should at that point. Nosferatu's post there

does

look pretty gross at first blush. The exchange that can be read in full in post 538 between C+A and WT is bizarre to say the least, and to say more, it looks like a series of dodges on questions about the Nosferatu read that make absolutely 0 sense (Especially, "Unsure. I think it will be more telling with a few flips." ) but the Nosferatu read which is still supposedly being reevaluated doesn't resurface until post 928, in which there's no indication any additional thought was put into it.

----

As for the Rb push, firstly, the original reasons mentioned in post 629 for the vote are not intrinsically scummy. Those percentages are plenty obnoxious but not scummy. Sheeping people is par for the course of both alignments. But those reasons cease to hold value after TW retcons them into a pressure vote due to a behavior not exhibited by the known meta of either town!rb or scum!rb. I can just barely see that the natural pressure of being scum could make someone act out (but then again, rb didn't in his scum game with WT), but that's in a vacuum. As was pointed out, Rb was antagonizing Luna (so maybe the better question to ask was, "does rb fuck around with a specific player as scum?") but that's entirely lost on WT. That's pretty clear from post 918, which also happens to contain both "We scum read you" and "we voted for pressure" (and a misrep involving skepticism). That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works!

Meanwhile one of the reads in 928 amounts to an OMGUS against Salt Squad when their pushback was clearly justified

---

@Cephir: I'm going at my own pace, and I think a reasonable one for the course of 2 days time, but its impossible for me to tackle everything at once and I did leave what amounted to post-it notes to other issues that (one of which I am addressing in this post) I wanted to get to . I chose to focus on Heartless because at the time their only agreed scum read was me, and as far as scum reads go it was both weak and yet most of their focus up until then. I'm not convinced it came from an honest town perspective, and still want to continue the dialogue.

Speaking of, I'm still interested in TTH's response.

@pedit: It's not even necessarily a PGO claim, but yes, the claim was strictly null

[No Retreat]

I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT HIM BEING A PGO MAKES HIM TOWN, I AM CLAIMING THAT HIM CLAIMING PGO WAS THE CORRECT AND PRO-TOWN THING TO DO. There is a huge diffrence.

[Luna Fox]

I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT HIM BEING A PGO MAKES HIM TOWN, I AM CLAIMING THAT HIM CLAIMING PGO WAS THE CORRECT AND PRO-TOWN THING TO DO. There is a huge diffrence.

That doesnt sound like it in here:

Almost is null. His "readslist" sucked but claiming the PGO type role was pro-town.

Since you're implying the PGO type role claim would nullify the "sucky readslist"

[Wayward Thinker]

Almost is null. His "readslist" sucked but claiming the PGO type role was pro-town.

This ^

[Heartless]

I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT HIM BEING A PGO MAKES HIM TOWN, I AM CLAIMING THAT HIM CLAIMING PGO WAS THE CORRECT AND PRO-TOWN THING TO DO. There is a huge diffrence.

Almost is null. His "readslist" sucked but claiming the PGO type role was pro-town.

OH OK YEAH HUGE DIFFERENCE IT WAS JUST ENOUGH TO COMPENSATE FOR "SUCK" READLIST BUT YOU DIDN'T SAY THAT MADE HIM TOWN

THAT'S SO OBVIOUS

GOD I'M SO STUPID HOW DID I NOT SEE THAT?