Gistou (Over!)

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

cerb or another head?

[RAM]

Alright! So, first, I have a very serious question:

HOW ARE YOU ALL SO FUCKING OBTUSE?????(Except for like, mathblade, and Nahdia...nobody else sees to fucking get it)

You have FOUR role PM's to look at, PLUS YOUR OWN, and the mods word saying that town factions eliminate all threats to them, and scum factions are trying to control the vote, and you SOMEHOW DON'T FUCKING KNOW WHAT A TOWN WIN CON WOULD LOOK LIKE?

Yes, members/a specific member of <town faction A> may be a threat to <town faction b> and so on, BUT THEY'RE NOT SCUM.

The part of everyone's PM that is aligned is the removal of those scum aligned slots, the ones trying to control the vote. The priority is removing fucking scum, not removing people who are obviously fucking town aligned based on their win condition claims, but might need to be removed for YOUR specific faction to win.

With that said.

We have two notable investigate results? One from <unknown member of luna's neighborhood> on SS, saying he is one faction, which he says he is not, and one from SS, on LLD, saying she is a wulden(and we know wulden is a generally anti-town race if we accept that the Luna/Stormblade/Copper 'hood is town, because they have been warned that there may be wuldens in there...clear implication is that wuldens are anti-town), but she says she's an individual wulden who wins with the town.

The entirety of the SS situation doesn't make sense. All Luna mentioned was SS' faction, which in and of itself doesn't mean anything because we don't know what the scum factions name(s) is(are). It literally makes no sense for scum!SS to claim the results on him must have been false, when the faction name alone isn't ACTUALLY a guilty. I'm inclined to believe he is actually this individual vampire faction simply because I'm going to attribute a base level of competence to their slot, and assume they wouldn't put themselves in a position where they're "caught" by a faction cop AFTER they've already heard the result, and the result wasn't an outright guilty.

Now, with that said, that brings up somethings that needs resolution: Luna, you asked SS how they would feel if you said your faction cop was "strong willed"...and then later on you said either he's lying or you had an unlucky redirect. The implication of strong willed is that the slot in question was empowered or otherwise guaranteed to have their actions resolve on their target. If that was the case, then there was no possibility of an unlucky redirect.

Which is it? Was there possibly a redirect, or is it CERTAIN beyond any doubt that this individual received SS' faction information?

For LLD: I don't think being wulden makes her automatically scum, BUT I do think the wuldens are generally scum aligned, based on the information given to us by Stormblade and their relation to their PT. This means that if she is scum, it makes perfect sense for her to claim "individual wulden" for her faction. Basically, her result is semi-null to me. Not impossible that she's an individual, but if she's scum, what she's done is exactly what she HAD to do as scum.

-Cerb

pedit: Ninja'd by Bins.

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

Its worded like "when all the treats to your faction die" how is its similarity to "when all the treats to individual humans faction die" means their town?

~Ice

[RAM]

The key, FA, is that in all those win cons, and in the moderators actual information, they used the verbiage "eliminate all threats". That verbiage=town, period, as i see it.

-Cerb

[RAM]

Also I'm pretty sure the "Town" WinCon is the one that says you win with the Individual Humans, regardless of your race.

All Individual Human factioners please vote Salt Squad.

The fact you honestly believe this and then later work up to fill in info that there are only two town factions makes me think that 1) you honestly believe this because being Individual human is all you know 2) you don't have a lot of info to work with and 3) you sort of haven't been reading (to know that the West Empire, Northern Tribes, etc are the town factions).

But that's okay, I think you just confirmed yourself as town like BBMolla did.

~ The other posts except the last one were Bins, m'bad.

[RAM]

Wow Cerb and I didn't even talk about this but we said the same thing HYDRA POWER ON THE SAME PAGE WOOOOO. NO DISSONANCE HERE.

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

There are four role pm's ; two are definitely town

two of them are critically suspicious and have a redacted part. how on earth would you call one town with no info , just based on those suspicious powerful roles and the similarity of their wincon wording?

pedit : all the thing mod confirmed about wincons is the fact game started with at least one town faction with that wincon and one scum faction with the majority wincon.

I can see both flips as second and thirth scum factions as it stands and I have no reason to believe not.

~Ice

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

I don't like anyone who is calling anyone town for having that wncondition

I won't let another saga frontier happen here.

Don't give this faction a free path

~Ice

[RAM]

two of them are critically suspicious and have a redacted part. how on earth would you call one town with no info , just based on those suspicious powerful roles and the similarity of their wincon wording?

I think SS said the redacted part is the Factional Recruit. Or I just assumed that from what he was saying.

But then it's like a Factional Town Recruit. To, you know, maybe fight back against the possible cult recruits?
I agree, though. That's the only part that bugs me. But the wincon is important. If their wincon is scum, what's saying the Northern Tribes aren't scum too? Is it cause their name is in a pretty blue colour? No, the Northern Tribes are town. Even if they don't share a wincon with the Individual Humans.



Going to review A50's post too.

[RAM]

Don't give this faction a free path

Okay, but are you not listening to what SS is even doing right now? Why would he, a scum faction in your words, claim he was a scum faction? Claim the wincon and everything and say he was aligned with Kuroi? Why would he not just use his give fakeclaim if he were scum? I don't see how Town isn't being reasonable here. Why didn't Kuroi use his fake claim?

This is the difference between SS and LLD right now. SS genuinely gets their wincon. LLD is still acting like she has no idea. I think that's because it's a fakeclaim.

~ Bins

[RAM]

two of them are critically suspicious and have a redacted part. how on earth would you call one town with no info , just based on those suspicious powerful roles and the similarity of their wincon wording?

I think SS said the redacted part is the Factional Recruit. Or I just assumed that from what he was saying.

But then it's like a Factional Town Recruit. To, you know, maybe fight back against the possible cult recruits?
I agree, though. That's the only part that bugs me. But the wincon is important. If their wincon is scum, what's saying the Northern Tribes aren't scum too? Is it cause their name is in a pretty blue colour? No, the Northern Tribes are town. Even if they don't share a wincon with the Individual Humans.



Going to review A50's post too.

Also ~ Bins, sorry.

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

I don't see a northen tribe flip with a redacted factional part

and yes I beleive they can recruit

I'm saying there might be more

and they might not be town

I don't like you guys considering that faction town like shit and moving on. this is just blantly unsetteling cuase its a huge assumption based on no logic

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

Don't give this faction a free path

Okay, but are you not listening to what SS is even doing right now? Why would he, a scum faction in your words, claim he was a scum faction? Claim the wincon and everything and say he was aligned with Kuroi? Why would he not just use his give fakeclaim if he were scum? I don't see how Town isn't being reasonable here. Why didn't Kuroi use his fake claim?

This is the difference between SS and LLD right now. SS genuinely gets their wincon. LLD is still acting like she has no idea. I think that's because it's a fakeclaim.

~ Bins

what is he doing? scum hunting?

I beleive a scum will scum hunt in multiball for sure

screaming? yeah they will do that if pressured as eaither alignment

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

I like to even call the way they reacted scummy not towny.

the way beeboy was insisting that he would fake claim if he was scum and refrenscing back to their vote on kuroi was scummy AF

~Ice

[RAM]

Don't give this faction a free path

Okay, but are you not listening to what SS is even doing right now? Why would he, a scum faction in your words, claim he was a scum faction? Claim the wincon and everything and say he was aligned with Kuroi? Why would he not just use his give fakeclaim if he were scum? I don't see how Town isn't being reasonable here. Why didn't Kuroi use his fake claim?

This is the difference between SS and LLD right now. SS genuinely gets their wincon. LLD is still acting like she has no idea. I think that's because it's a fakeclaim.

~ Bins

what is he doing? scum hunting?

I beleive a scum will scum hunt in multiball for sure

screaming? yeah they will do that if pressured as eaither alignment

NO FA

He's CLAIMING what you think is a SCUM FACTION. WHY THE HELL WOULD HE DO THAT? Especially if it doesn't match the RESULT on him? I think he's telling the truth.

I think these Individual Vampires and other creepy shit (Individual Wuldan, I guess) are the "Enemies that are actually your allies." Mastin is talking about.

~ Bins

pedit - It really wasn't.

[copper223]

I am Cerberus, you are all dumb, let me make a huge post that reaches no conclusion and parrots Nahdia.

LLD's forced claim after the check is not null ( ), it makes her by far the likeliest scum or if we want to be generous anti-town even over heartless whom I know has other as a nation and is therefore very unlikely to be human, likeliest is they are the 5th faction.

Beeboy is still posting in this game and this makes it unlikely for him to be pure scum, LLD did not cc so this discussion for today is pointless anyway.

[rb]

I'm going to have to go with FA on this one in that I don't really think that it's somehow a matter of lynching all the scum + cult and then everyone else gets to have supper-happy-fun-times and wins the game.

Or maybe they do. I really can't tell because I think everyone believes they're Town but I think that what everyone believes might actually be wrong and Dram and co. aren't necessarily scum but they're possibly not-town and their WinCon isn't compatible with Individual humans necessarily.

I get the impression that Luna/SS/Dram/Stormblade are like shared-survivors or something who need to survive to endgame and that they'll probably take any kind of action either town or scum aligned if it means they survive. Maybe I'm crazy but that's how I see it. I don't really see how their wincon works with what I know to be Town. I think they actually misunderstood what they are and mistakenly thought they were 'Town' because 'new humanity treaty' sounds all special and good and human-alignmenty, but they didn't know that Titus/BBMolla type factions existed.

[rb]

I can dig the Invidual Vampires being the superhappyfuntime friends of the Individual Humans, but the humanity treaty stuff is dodgy af and I want it dead.

[RAM]

Also, LLD also claimed one of these "Individual [Scummy sounding shit]". Do you think that's scum as well? I mean, it even has a different wincon from town! Do you think scum again fakeclaimed something scummy? I just don't think LLD thought she would get heat for claiming something with a town wincon.

The Individual Wuldan sound worse than the Individual Vampires. Especially because their wincon is different from mine (the town one) and I can't even figure out who Dram was aligned with yet for certain. But I still think they were town-ish.


LLD is just fakeclaiming it. Which also sort of confirms again along similar logic that it's town because why would scum fakeclaim something that was Scum?

[RAM]

Game Mechanics

:

[*]Loosely speaking,

there is at least one town faction

. They win if all threats to them are eliminated. [*]

Loosely speaking,

at least one faction is definitely a scum/mafia faction

. They win if they control 50% of the living.

Role

You are an

Individual Vampire Doctor

.

[REDACTED - FACTIONAL]

In addition, you hold the following

personal abilities

:

1. During the night, target a player. They will be protected from any attempts on their life.
2. Racial checker
   : During the night, in addition to any actions you may take, you may
   check
   a player's
   race
   .

You give the home

Nation

result of

Northern Tribes

.
You give the

Location

result of

Other

.
You give the

Race

result of

Vampire

.

You win when all threats to

the

Individual Vampire

faction

have been eliminated.

[/spoiler]

[/quote]

role

You are the

West Empire Champion

.

HUMANITY'S CHAMPION:

1. Rivalry knowledge:
   You know that there are two other human champions:
   Panther Timon
   of the
   Eastern Kingdom
   , and
   Adrian Burkhard
   , of the
   Northern Tribes
   . There may be other champions in existence as well, however, if so, they would differ from the three human champions' symbiotic relationship.
2. Teeth-clenched teamwork:
   You hold a
   conditional X-shot bulletproof vest
   . This is an
   instantly-applied action
   . X = the number of
   human champions dead
   . You will be informed how many vests you hold. These vests protect against
   one
   nightkill attempt, and are applied
   before any protective role
   .
3. Any attempt to recruit you to a different faction will fail.

In addition to your status as a champion of humanity, you hold the following

personal abilities

:

1. During the night, target a player. If they are
   not a human
   , then you will
   kill
   them.
2. Once in the game, during the night, you may target a player. If
   they do not share your nation
   , they will die. This takes the place of your non-human kill.
3. Once in the game, during the night, you may target a player. If
   they do not share your faction
   , they will die. This takes the place of your non-human kill.
4. Old Grudge:
   If you target
   Panther Timon
   or
   Adrian Burkhard
   , regardless of whether they fit the conditions for your nightkill or not, you will kill them.
5. During pregame, you may select either "location" or "nation". Each night, in addition to any night action you perform, you may investigate a player and learn whichever you selected in pregame.

You give the home

Nation

result of

West Empire

.
You give the

Location

result of

Great Ridge

.
You give the

Race

result of

Human

.

You win when all threats to

the

West Empire

faction

have been eliminated.

dramonic

, who was

Eugine Lysander,

Undead Risen Slave

, has

died N1

.

Role

You are an

Undead Risen Slave

.

[REDACTED - FACTIONAL]

In addition to the above, you hold the following

personal ability

:

Racial Checker

: During the night, in addition to any actions you may take, you may

check

a player's

race

.
You give the home

Nation

result of

East Kingdom

.
You give the

Location

result of

Divitias

.
You give the

Race

result of

Undead

.

You win if all threats to a new humanity treaty are eliminated and at least one player with this wincon is alive.

[/quote]

BBMolla

, who was

Julia Otho,

Individual Human Jailkeeper

, has

died N1

.

Role

You are an

Individual Human Jailkeeper

.
You hold the following

personal abilities

:

1. During the night, target a player. You will protect them from any and all nightkills, while also blocking
   all
   actions they perform.
2. During pregame, you may select either "location" or "nation". Each night, in addition to any night action you perform, you may investigate a player and learn whichever you selected in pregame.

You give the home

Nation

result of

West Empire

.
You give the

Location

result of

Great Ridge

.
You give the

Race

result of

Human

.

You win if all threats to

the

Individual Humans

faction

have been eliminated.

[/quote]

[/quote]

This is the friggin proof FA. Mastins post: They win if all threats to them are eliminated. EVERY SINGLE WIN CON WE'VE SEEN(AND YOU'RE OWN, ASSUMING YOU'RE TOWN): "You win if all threats to <faction name> are eliminated".

-Cerb

pedit: There are people in this thread who are apparently ignoring Nahdia and incapable of understanding the basic mechanics of this game, in spite of overwhelming evidence...and are making cases against people based on that misunderstanding. It has to be corrected copper.



MOD NOTE:
UH...I'd fix this if I could figure out what the heck actually happened, but...well, I'm clueless.

[rb]

I am Cerberus, you are all dumb, let me make a huge post that reaches no conclusion and parrots Nahdia.

LLD's forced claim after the check is not null ( ), it makes her by far the likeliest scum or if we want to be generous anti-town even over heartless whom I know has other as a nation and is therefore very unlikely to be human, likeliest is they are the 5th faction.

Beeboy is still posting in this game and this makes it unlikely for him to be pure scum, LLD did not cc so this discussion for today is pointless anyway.

I'm human and 'Other' so no it doesn't mean shit. Race is literally poop in this game.

[Stormblade]

Actually, from a strictly logic based perspective, Frozen Angel is

right

. All we know is that ONE scum faction has the wincon "You must control 50% of the vote". There could be other scum factions with other win conditions.
Personally, I disagree with that notion, but that's not a confirmation.

-Nahdia

[Wake1]

So since I don't know who is with me or against me, what does this mean?

It doesn't say I'm individual or isolationist, and I don't have a PT.

All it says is that you win if all threats to the Northern Tribes faction have been eliminated.

Problem is, I don't know who or what they are.

[rb]

Actually, from a strictly logic based perspective, Frozen Angel is

right

. All we know is that ONE scum faction has the wincon "You must control 50% of the vote". There could be other scum factions with other win conditions.
Personally, I disagree with that notion, but that's not a confirmation.

-Nahdia

Yeah that's what I'm saying. Which is why your faction looks bad to me

[rb]

So since I don't know who is with me or against me, what does this mean?

It doesn't say I'm individual or isolationist, and I don't have a PT.

All it says is that you win if all threats to the Northern Tribes faction have been eliminated.

Problem is, I don't know who or what they are.

You're Town.