Mini 518: Underground Mafia, The Nightmare is Over!

[jerubbaal]

I have a couple things I'd really like to say about the stuff that we've found out, but I'm really not sure of the rules on the matter. This issue is really complicated, as Anata now has hidden information concerning this active game, yet now has no involvement with the current game. There really should be some sort of policy regarding the requesting of replacements if the person is planning on continued play at this site. If there is such a policy, I would like to know of it.

If her behavior here becomes a meta-issue in the other game, I could see the whole thing getting out of hand. All in all, I am very unsure of what is/should be allowed in this situation, but I'm going to wait until we hear from NabNab concerning what we can do with the information we have, as it seems very relevant. Clearly, we all know about or have access to all other public goings-on at this site, so the knowledge is available to us, but I am unsure what uses me may put that knowledge to.

[Mexal]

First, why do you think you'd get lynched for that? Strange statement to make for posting your thoughts.

But let's suppose for a minute that she actually is scum. One possibility then, is that both her and Miztef are scum and they are bussing each other to some degree (both have attacked or raised suspicion on the other at some point). If I understand bussing correctly, one or more scum cast suspicion on another scum to damage their reputation in order to look more townie. However, scum pointing fingers at each other, though possible, would seem to be a bad play on Day 1, as there is a decent chance that the town will believe at least one of the two.

Nah. I don't buy this at all. Day 1 is a good time to distance but uh, no need to really bus. It's unnecessary when there is someone equally scummy in Gunslinger that they could have focused on.

The other possibility is... and I can't believe I'm saying this... That Miztef is innocent and has been framed (first by Anata, and then *possibly* by CKD -- remember that CKD has been saying that we should be taking Miztef seriously for a good while now). Could it actually be possible that Miztef has just been a bad townie player and has actually been innocent all this time?

Yes it's possible and it's what I was saying earlier. I don't think framed is the right word, more like the case is being pushed. I mean, to be framed, it implies that you didn't do anything and people are making it up. The fact is, he is scummy, whether town or scum. So I don't think he's being framed. He's just an easy target and one I'd expect scum to attack if he wasn't scum.

[Jitsu]

I have sent a PM to the Mod to ask him to look at the thread and directed him to my post.

[Jitsu]

First, why do you think you'd get lynched for that? Strange statement to make for posting your thoughts.

I was really kind of joking here, more than anything. I should have put a smiley face or something there...

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD is really, really pushing hard for a Miztef lynch, and continued to attack Mexal even after Mexal changed his vote to Miztef. I still find that odd.

Just because Mex changed his vote, why should I stop pushing for a lynch of someone I think is scum? IS MEx the only person in this game?

I am not willing to say that CKD is scum yet, as I don't have good evidence to support that. I still think it is possible that Miztef is really scum, and CKD could just be an aggressive townie pursuing someone who is obviously scummy and doesn't want them to slip into the cracks. It would also seem to not make sense that CKD would push so hard for a Miztef lynch if he knew Miztef were innocent –

Let it be known, I am willing to take most of the responsibility for the Mitzef lynch Day 2. That is how sure I am he is scum. I have a feeling that if we don’t lynch him today, I will be Nked tonight for one of two reasons. A.) he is scum, wants me off his back b.) he is town, and the mafia wants to frame him. Either way, I have pushed so hard today for the Mit’s lynch, I am pretty sure I am dead if he doesn’t hang.

If her behavior here becomes a meta-issue in the other game, I could see the whole thing getting out of hand. All in all, I am very unsure of what is/should be allowed in this situation, but I'm going to wait until we hear from NabNab concerning what we can do with the information we have, as it seems very relevant. Clearly, we all know about or have access to all other public goings-on at this site, so the knowledge is available to us, but I am unsure what uses me may put that knowledge to.

THe rule is there for many different reasons. In reference to this game, the rule has already been broken, so the actual post can not be deleted (for some people would have information that others do not). Now that the information is there, it is there...

My problem with Jitsu’s post (other than the obvious) was that it is a little misleading(or maybe I read it wrong)….when I read the post, it sounded like Anata asked for a replacement for this game, THEN JOINED another game, if you meta the dates of Anata’s posts, you find that is not exactly how it has happened, she was in both games (actively posting) at the same time.

[Mexal]

Let it be known, I am willing to take most of the responsibility for the Mitzef lynch Day 2. That is how sure I am he is scum. I have a feeling that if we don’t lynch him today, I will be Nked tonight for one of two reasons. A.) he is scum, wants me off his back b.) he is town, and the mafia wants to frame him. Either way, I have pushed so hard today for the Mit’s lynch, I am pretty sure I am dead if he doesn’t hang.

I'd say you're pretty safe.

My problem with Jitsu’s post (other than the obvious) was that it is a little misleading(or maybe I read it wrong)….when I read the post, it sounded like Anata asked for a replacement for this game, THEN JOINED another game, if you meta the dates of Anata’s posts, you find that is not exactly how it has happened, she was in both games (actively posting) at the same time.

Uh, he clarified that already. Did you forget about that post too?

[curiouskarmadog]

Let it be known, I am willing to take most of the responsibility for the Mitzef lynch Day 2. That is how sure I am he is scum. I have a feeling that if we don’t lynch him today, I will be Nked tonight for one of two reasons. A.) he is scum, wants me off his back b.) he is town, and the mafia wants to frame him. Either way, I have pushed so hard today for the Mit’s lynch, I am pretty sure I am dead if he doesn’t hang.

I'd say you're pretty safe.

you know what the mafia will do? Interesting.

My problem with Jitsu’s post (other than the obvious) was that it is a little misleading(or maybe I read it wrong)….when I read the post, it sounded like Anata asked for a replacement for this game, THEN JOINED another game, if you meta the dates of Anata’s posts, you find that is not exactly how it has happened, she was in both games (actively posting) at the same time.

Uh, he clarified that already. Did you forget about that post too?

must have missed it...yeah ok last page...got it..sorry Jitsu, thank you Mex

[Jitsu]

Uh, he clarified that already. Did you forget about that post too?

Yes, he is a little late. It's in post #403.

[curiouskarmadog]

quote tags fixed.

Let it be known, I am willing to take most of the responsibility for the Mitzef lynch Day 2. That is how sure I am he is scum. I have a feeling that if we don’t lynch him today, I will be Nked tonight for one of two reasons. A.) he is scum, wants me off his back b.) he is town, and the mafia wants to frame him. Either way, I have pushed so hard today for the Mit’s lynch, I am pretty sure I am dead if he doesn’t hang.

I'd say you're pretty safe.

you know what the mafia will do? Interesting.

]
My problem with Jitsu’s post (other than the obvious) was that it is a little misleading(or maybe I read it wrong)….when I read the post, it sounded like Anata asked for a replacement for this game, THEN JOINED another game, if you meta the dates of Anata’s posts, you find that is not exactly how it has happened, she was in both games (actively posting) at the same time.

Uh, he clarified that already. Did you forget about that post too?

must have missed it...yeah ok last page...got it..sorry Jitsu, thank you Mex[/quote]

[Mexal]

you know what the mafia will do? Interesting.

No, but I can make a logical guess. You wouldn't be it.

[curiouskarmadog]

who would?

[Jitsu]

who would?

Do you like to fish? It seems so here, at least...

[Mexal]

who would?

Lets not get into this discussion. It gives scum way too much information and allows the ability to mislead us. This is just a case of WIFOM and it's not helpful.

[curiouskarmadog]

who would?

Do you like to fish? It seems so here, at least...

Mexal seems to think that I am clear for a NK..I want to know why.

[Jitsu]

There is one obvious explanation, at least...

[Mexal]

Mexal seems to think that I am clear for a NK..I want to know why.

No, you wanted to know who was the most logical choice of a night kill. That is a different question all together.

As for why, it gets into logical speculation and WIFOM and it's an unnecessary conversation right now. It won't help the town so we're not going to dicuss it. Drop it.

[curiouskarmadog]

Mexal seems to think that I am clear for a NK..I want to know why.

No, you wanted to know who was the most logical choice of a night kill. That is a different question all together.

As for why, it gets into logical speculation and WIFOM and it's an unnecessary conversation right now. It won't help the town so we're not going to dicuss it. Drop it.

we will see

[Jitsu]

No, Mexal is right. It is really bad to speculate about who would likely be NK'd. This gives way too much information to the Mafia and makes it tougher to draw unbiased conclusions from the NK information that the town gets.

Too much has said about this already, most likely.

[curiouskarmadog]

subject dropped for now.

[Korlash]

So basically what you're saying is that you want to lynch Miztef

Personally I have not seen a lot come from Miztef or Anata and thus why I have not voted them.

Easy there.. I never said I

wanted

to lynch him at all...

[Korlash]

That is definately the oddest post I've seen all game. With basically no true content as well....

Really... I am sure I have made odder posts then that... But it more or less is my current stance on things. Like I said, I haven't been totally following this game. I have two Jitsu like posters each hounding me in another game so all my attention is on that one. I thought I gave my current thinking rather well.. Oh well...

On the Anata points... Lets see... Just because she started another game doesn't really mean anything... Perhaps she just plain hates coming home everyday after work to find another 3 pages of discussion from one day. sure that is a pretty bad reason to get out of the game but it is possible...

Also I wouldn't say don't keep building your case against her, do so her replacement knows where he/she stands. But i find it a bit... um... Not good I suppose is an ok way to describe it, to keep piling up the bandwagon on her right now... I mean get your case ready and bullet main points, get questions ready, and all that great stuff but don't force the replacement to enter the game at like L-2 or something... Thats messed up... would you honestly even want to do a reread and begin posting if you enter a game a L-1 or L-2? I would just say screw it and begin to wing it...

[GunslingerKB]

Ok...I should be ok now. But that all sucked. Ill try to get some content-rich posts in when I get a moment. But for now, ill comment a bit.

I would say that our best lynch options for today would be mitzef or anata. There have been many points made over the course of these pages, and Mitz and anata have both done suspicious things. The way i figure, Anata would be a good first day choice. She clearly made some summy statements, and we all have picked up on them.

(Sorry for the inactivity, there have been some toubles in the family, aside from the internet fiasco.)

[GunslingerKB]

And Korlash, I didnt see your post as I posted mine, but I would say to you, from the actions from Anata, some could deduce that she could have been scum anyway. Would it really matter how the replacement acted if we had already gotten scmmy vibes from the role?

[Korlash]

A.) he is scum, wants me off his back b.) he is town, and the mafia wants to frame him.

Thats a bit... Um... Contradictory... You think the mafia would kill you to frame him yet he would not be worried about framing himself if he were mafia? Right...

As for the Meta-Issue... I believe you cannot talk to people about still active games they are/have participated in. But, seeing as how metaing Anata now is not actually talking to her about it, it should in no way effect that game, PROVIDING, no one else here is also in that game. Or thats my take on it...

And I guess no comment on the NK choice thing... Honestly I can think of a couple better Nk choices the mafia could do then CKD simply so they can frame him tomorrow... But No need to go into them as I understand the thin Ice it is...

Would it really matter how the replacement acted if we had already gotten scummy vibes from the role?

Oh yeah... Lots of reasons why too...
1) If they deem it an unwinable situation they may refuse to play right and just mess around. So to come into the game at a near lynch vote already they may just automatically give up.
2) we will want the replacements opinions on Anata's past actions. What he or she thinks Anata meant, why she did it, what they woudl have done instead, etc...
3) We want the replacement's read on the other players to be as unbiased as possible. So the less we seem like we would just sacrifice Anata before hearing her defense, the more likely to get an accurate response from her replacement. Personally, if I was replacing and two people had each tried to have my previous person lynched BEFORE I replaced after he left.. I would hate those two right off the start... So... Yeah...

Or that is my take on it... let's say Anata is town who did for some reason get caught up... If any of the above happen we could more or less lose a very good replacement player. I mean you all said something about her being "lazy" or something right? Perhaps her replacement will be a bit more like Mexal or Jitsu or something... Wouldn't it be nice to give him or her a chance instead of automatically assuming they are scum right off the start?

Yes, keep your feelings on Anata, and if you believe that strongly keep your vote on her. But I'm asking we do not continue to place votes based on info we will never get the answer to...

[GunslingerKB]

Good points...I dont even remember who my vote is on right now. So.

Unvote

...We should give them a chance, and especially get their unbiased opinions.