Gistou (Over!)

[Frozen Angel]

just an ego I promise to myself that I won't hydra slip in this game

[Frozen Angel]

If they think their masons legitly they know their not all huans aligned with humans so abr wouldn't be afraid of being culted.

~Ice

Or he was baiting a cult attempt from the dumb. No opinions lurker bait = high culting target

Thats why I said they may be town cuase I actually think errant had a hydra note about his early reads and that's what scums won't have.

just its a bit sketchy ...

~Ice

[Frozen Angel]

If you think there's something you said that's supposed to make me go, "WOW! ICE IS TOWN!" then please do point it out to me.

this whole interaction wasn't suppose to do that. you said your leaning scum on me (a bit)

and you said why

I said why its wrong

but that wasn't my whole argument. you said you read my posts yet your posts show you didn't. I want to see if the way you wifom'ed about kuroi is becuase you already know his alignment and your scum or your just misunderstood me earlier

~Ice

[Frozen Angel]

Almsot 50 this is going to be my last mafia game

(at least for a long time)

I want you to shoot me- northern tribe champion claim I assume.

[Frozen Angel]

I will survive .... I will survive

Spoiler: I will survive!

BYE BYE MAFIA GAMES !!!

<<this is just a bah post>>

[Frozen Angel]

So much confirmed towns

a very limited cult

and three uncultable bulletproof vigs which was assumed other scum teams will eliminate them to make game balanced.

But it was fun I admit

[Frozen Angel]

I did not read the dead thread but whoever thought this cult was op they are not paying attention at all

this cult lost the game night 1 with a human vanilla cultting which got watched. the cult lost access to nearly half of the players with that action without gaining any power roles and basically linked the two original cult players for the rest of the game.

[Frozen Angel]

I beleive it was better if there were no vanilla roles in game and the game wasn't really relied on the fact strongmans will kill the bulletprrof uncultable vigs to win

or at least if they weren't uncultable...

Even if I wasn't screwing rach cultting that night which is not on me cuase I was on a fucking vacation we had no chance in winning this cuase at most we would make it two two members when there were only 2 Unkiillable vigs and there was no way to keep bacde alive till that point.

[Frozen Angel]

The setup was balanced for mafia - mafia - town though I think both 6 memberable mafia factions could get strong enough to destroy the power center of town

it was just to relied on luck for cult and cult needed a mafia faction to get strong enough to create space for them . the fact cult could get into another mafia faction by recruiting one of their members were a really strong power and I really like this (this was really helping that - the point was in this game those factions were already screwed anyway.)

rb I was trying to save myslef from the lynch I wasn't intended to get you lynched. Everything was good till the point you slipped with that miller claim. we had the chance to pull this of by shooting town vigs together.

[Frozen Angel]

I spent so much time searching the names and terms to try to decode the flavor -- and it turns out to not be based on anything.

This outcome favored town, but a couple things swing a different way and things might be different. For example one of the scum factions calls A50's PGO bluff with a strongman kill...
I do think cult recruiting non-consecutive nights made it pretty unlikely that they could reach a winning position.

@dave as I said the game was dependent on eleminating those vigs with strongmans

Both factions were really busy with crosskilling though...

I'm really really angry at isolatinist strongman, Like really really really angry

[Frozen Angel]

too many confirmed towns.

this was really based on assuming mafia will kill town members

[Frozen Angel]

Town had 3 vigs

Imagining there is no town vig left + the fact cult couldn't exceed 7 members (never could get 7 members cuase that was really really hard thing to do) is saying no? it wouldn't be over powered.

[Frozen Angel]

+ I did not counted the two other kills which were in game.

cult needed to survive in 5 kill hell each night

I think it was way more useful than a night kill for a cult to let them cult everynight

[Frozen Angel]

I'm really really angry at isolatinist strongman, Like really really really angry

You and literally every other scum player.
The wulden faction was really angry at them for killing Mathblade, the player they were setting up for endgame. Without Mathblade, the wuldens didn't have any player who could last long.

The isolationist faction was really angry at them for killing rather than recruiting, since they were the universal scumread of everyone. Without them recruiting, they condemned their faction to a loss.

So, you're not alone there!

why didn't they recruit?

why didn't they use their strongman on almsot50? why the fuck they were so obvious scum ...

I mean what the hell ...

they kindda lost the game for all of us >.>

[Frozen Angel]

Imagining there is no town vig left + the fact cult couldn't exceed 7 members (never could get 7 members cuase that was really really hard thing to do) is saying no? it wouldn't be over powered.

fixing that sentence

imagining there is no vig left is unreasonable + ...

[Frozen Angel]

you were yeah

I was really hoping town loose over undeads and stuff for ratifying that treaty

[Frozen Angel]

Gj for modding this

[Frozen Angel]

nah Flavor was cool <3

[Frozen Angel]

Just if they contain so much hints like the way they had in this game you better tell people what they must expect before signing them up.

[Frozen Angel]

Mastian you told me assume I could culted one of those conftown players successfully my faction would be op as well your plain wrong

there was too heat around the masonary , 3 vigs were uncultable , and dgb would get outed if culted anytime. there was no way for anyone else to live more than 3 vigs. what you expected scum to get for over powering this town is basically impossible

[Frozen Angel]

Scum were very close to winning. A few mistakes were made.

Fucking Lol

[Frozen Angel]

we had dave already.

we should have killed almost that night with wuldens , I can't remember why we didn't.

guess dave couldn't convince them for doing that? I cant remember

[Frozen Angel]

nero wasn't outed back then.

there was never chance for such opration

[Frozen Angel]

I couldn't really aim for that , Tim had so much tention on himself and almost was choosing between dave and him to kill that night.

so I decieded to just go with one of the rach / wake and kill the other using wulden faction. rach blocked me and it got screwed over with it. I was on vaction and had no time to analize what was she really trying to , I saw she mentioning dave is scummy multiple times and vigs were about to shoot me, plus I was already claimed other miller and stuff so I though she will go on dave or tim to block and race check cuase there was already one guilty on me! but apperantly she skimmed my miller claim and whetever was discussed that day ....

so we lost the game earlier! ehh

[Frozen Angel]

I still think putting vanillas in this setup is really bad.

this cult was rekt becuase of vanilla members mainly ...

[Frozen Angel]

Thank you rach

I was trying to quit mafia for a while now! its just this game was sooo long lol

[Frozen Angel]

I have no idea how I survived 5 phases after getting confirmed cult. my claim was absolute trash lol

with a good mixture of ATE I guess I mentally paralized your logic centers . I only died because of getting POE'd lol

#Last_Scum_Standing

[Frozen Angel]

If I couldn't talk with mastin in cult thread about my feelings I would explode I guess



but no rb ; I was unluckier than you definitely.

[Frozen Angel]

I mean mastian told us whoever gets culted is Unluckiest of all!

she designed the game in a way to make sure no scum can win and whoever got culted were screwed! (just joking)

[Frozen Angel]

rach that was an awful thing to do but that was our best move at that point. we should have played toward our wincon so there was that

[Frozen Angel]

math its not even close to getting recruited and watched to getiing recruited...

but ok lol

[Frozen Angel]

We rolecopped you, then strongman'd you. That was two actions. We did that for the sake of efficiency with our role abilities. I'm sure if we could, we'd have preferred to kill off a Vig via the same actions.

without strongmen, would you also advocate taking out the doctor/BG/Roleblocker/jailkeeper too?

some protection should exist but yeah you could take out a lot of it.

without strongman this game was like just give the town victory.

your just pissed about your death and your not seeing the whole picture nahdia.

i mean, i think my point is pretty reasonable but OK if you say so dude.

I don't understand your stance , I mean I think your saying exactly waht I say in some manners but I think your just pissed at strongmans in setup more than the fact half of the town were conftown , bullet proof with 3 uncultable vigs and the rest were crazy imba investigative / protective / neighborizers

I agree this setup needed less power based variants but I don't follow you. strongman only matters if there is so many bps and stuff. there were only 2 (or 3?) strongmans in a setup when you couldn't kill 8 players each night. this is not even close to be fair to just argue about removing scum powers. I mean this setup would be balanced without some town roles and keeping the scum as they are right now.

[Frozen Angel]

oh I understand and Mastin (read both dead threads now) is right Nicholas should have been recruited by cult or shot by scum at night.

Reason I did not out myself early on and CC cephir was because I had not yet recruited and I saw too much risk of becoming the usual lynch bait for town paranoia which was highly anti anything not human right then. So I hunkered down and thought What would Nicholas do here? He is a hunter, so I will hunt;

Hunt for the best partner to help me win the game for us and for town
Hunt both scum teams and get them dead any way I can
Hunt for townies that I can clear and kind of be a weak cop
Hunt for people to block to prevent catastrophe. kind of a weak jk

In the end like Nicholas himself, it was not the most elegant, but it got the job done.

And I do still love you Nero but take this in the vein it is meant DAMNIT STOP BEING SO F***ING STUBBORN AND HOLDING GRUDGES dude yes you were ticked off about Exp outing you, but you outed me too dude. The masons claim was for all intents and purposes pretty accurate really. We were working for town, and we were in complete alignment on our win con.

Really glad your other head voted for the treaty and hammered it.

we couldn't win even with you though at that point. you would die before any other vigs so basically endgaming that was impossible even for you.

[Frozen Angel]

I died as BP scum once too though.

Thats bad as well , kindda ...

I agree

[Frozen Angel]

Luna you were one of the basic concepts made this game triple fun for me

I was so sad to see your death so soon

I was planning in culting you :/ ?

[Frozen Angel]

even LLD had no idea there might be individual wuldens in setup

it was just really not acceptable flavor wise at that point

I was pretty shocked when I saw individual nos claim after the point i was sure there is no isolationist left

setup was just to predictable based on flavor

[Frozen Angel]

at least it seemed like it was to predictable.

[Frozen Angel]

I'm not saying it was a bad thing

it was just another boost for this OP town - which they didn't use properly . I think this was breakable with a massclaim on day 2/3 forward

[Frozen Angel]

I litterally died to back up nosferatus rediclous claims on day 3 ! for some reason he though he visited stromblade not ram and all we needed was a tracker / second watcher to screw us. I mean I litterally died that day to make such a briliant fake claim which never got neccessorry!

and my own claim just came out ! Individual human champion was briliant , whoever disagrees need to be hanged in a city center!

for more info about the fake claims I made read our chat

I was literally on fire

[Frozen Angel]

Who can live 5 phases after getting confscum till the point they get POE'ed between so many other conftown under the heave shot hellfire of two vigs who cant get killed or culted

[Frozen Angel]

and My bah post for more information !

[Frozen Angel]

Fake claim wise Nos was a role cop who checked me night 1 and checked stormblade night 2 but got results of stromblade so he knew he was redirceted action wise but not check wise cuase his race check was on stormblade!

[Frozen Angel]

my party were all a bunch of lurkers though

I love them but I was the

#Last_Scum_Standing ... _Alone

[Frozen Angel]

lol me being culted would've been interesting, i've never been part of a cult. But it was too obv i'd get shot due to my claim.
Considering toog BG'ing me, this would have gone so differently if we had lynched WT D1.
Specially due to the result i got on Beeboy

Bacde was litterally the worst person who could survive from your group

I wanted a decent obvtown player for cult

[Frozen Angel]

That wasn't supposed to be an offensive sentence against bacde , its just he had o much tension on himself. culting him was suicide.

[Frozen Angel]

Almost your pgo claim was a great move ,

I expected the mafia strongmans to eleminate the three vig circles cuase they were THE ONLY PEOPLE who could. there was NO OTHER WAY for getting rid of you and NO FACTION could win over you

I mean this is a simple math

but whatever!

[Frozen Angel]

Gotta target the right person to get a guilty.
Gotta leave PRs alive for them to drive guilties.
Gotta not have the multiball factions muddying the waters with fakeguilties either.

This post gets a golden star from me.

You had 9 conftown players , 8 investigatives , 3 vigs (counted in conftowns as well) , 1 blocker , 2 neighborizers , 2 alignment cops (one was counted in conftowns) , 1 bodyguard , 1 doctor and 1 jailkeeper

don't mess with me

what can a cop who get a vanilla from this town ^ and loose access to the rest of them in night 1 can win this game

[Frozen Angel]

3 conftown uncultable bullet proof vigs

and investigators everywhere ...

who can a cult without ability to recruit each night , without ability to recruit two people with same race can have a chance in late game against this if other scums don't do anything against the power roles of town

I told this to mastian inthread and she answered : well assume it went differently. it went differently how. there shouldn't be vannilas in a setup like this. there shouldn't be this much tools for confiming a player , town needed absoiloutly no skill to detect scum for winning the game. I would win this game if you weren't all conftown like this.

I'm not joking at least accept the obvious fact in front of you

[Frozen Angel]

I'm not upset about this

I'm not goig to get crazy and I'm not denying I had fun. this game was so fun but it wasn't balanced for the reasons I mentioned.

[Frozen Angel]

how can a cult who gets a vanilla from this town ^ and loose access to the rest of them in night 1 can win this game

fixed

[Frozen Angel]

You had 9 conftown players , 8 investigatives , 3 vigs (counted in conftowns as well) , 1 blocker , 2 neighborizers , 2 alignment cops (one was counted in conftowns) , 1 bodyguard , 1 doctor and 1 jailkeeper

don't mess with me

You keep saying this, but you're missing:

- one of the vigs got NK'd on N1
- The Town Doc ate rope on D1
- The whole of the Undead PT were slain by N2 (with the exception of KC/Bacde who were far from being confirmed, if only for the claim there might be a Wulden spy in that PT).

It is not the town's fault scum didn't make the right kills. It is not the town's fault the investigatives and vigs made the right calls.

Me and No retreat were only confirmed when we claimed. Nobody thought we were confirmed before that point. We could've been pushed to -at least- claim and get NK'd by scum, but no serious pushes were made on us either, which -again- is NOT OUR FAULT.

All in all, I say most players did well. It was unfortunate we lost some GOOD players early (both alignments) as it would have been more challenging it they lived longer, but then again someone had to die and those who lived longer were no less challenging.

first of all your the wrong one.

sure they died night one but the rest lived. someone should have died night 1 thats obviously one of the players. there were no way for any faction to reach the end game with less than 3 or 4 confirmed towns in current setup NO Matter who dies in early game unless Strongmans live long enough to detect and get rid of 8 or 9 very important players of town . All of them

There was no right kill after day 4 for any factions in game.

It was not cults fualt to get a vanilla on night 1 and night 3 and be afull vanill faction for the rest of the game. It was setups fualt for putting such things in play in the first place. the setup is really based on how night actions go through to give a really tiny chance for scums to live enough for doing anything else which must be vise versa in a mafia game (means town will need to do their actions carefully to hold the game enough for detecting mafia players)

this is why the game was not balanced

[Frozen Angel]

and being an IC but revealing yet is not really impactful of being IC in the first place.

haveing a 5 players masonary which they know there cant be any isolationist or cults in the starting hand of them only a wulen spy theroy or shit is not changing the fact there was a 5 player masonary in this game

its not about revealing it. Its about the fact no scum can win if the live. There were just too many of such stuff in this game

and yet still your not mentioning the amount of race checks and 2 alignment checkers + 1 watcher.

as I said if I were town I would convince you all to full claim day 3 or 4 and I would break this game with claims. It obviously doable.

[Frozen Angel]

balancing is focusing and checking all the if's.

the "if" your talking about is the

only

way a scum faction can win this game and its really really really unlikely .

[Frozen Angel]

As I said there were 9 conftown players in this setup

the only way for a scum faction to win was to have more members than them. at any time (assuming they kill the very single one of the other players or cult them)

we had 3 kills per cycle (day + night) town had 4

[Frozen Angel]

I mean that is the first time I see a town with more killing than scums all together.

[Frozen Angel]

again thats just not assuming all the things together.

with that ^ town had 8 investigatives... like 7 alignment checkers (2 hard and 5 soft (with race checking))

THERE was litterally no chance logically or mathematically for scum factions to survive in this hellfire

[Frozen Angel]

oh yeah sorry for missclaculting

4.5 kills vs 2.5 (we needed to cult instead of killing)

[Frozen Angel]

Cult deserved to lose because lurksacks shouldn't win, so Nosferatu REALLY deserved to lose, and they screwed up their defense against the guilty that existed on them from D3, AND for recruiting/killing the wrong people, AND for ASOIAF's ridiculous "this claim is clearly designed to counteract any potential guilties against my slot" claim

I was playing the game solo since day 1. its really brutal to talk about me like that , yes my teammates all deserved to loose for lurking.

My claim was briliant though , I survived with it 5 days after being confirmed scum. I didn't choose the fucking guilty on me. I knew I would get race checked so I claimed a compltly possible lacked role in setup miller champion of individual humans and it worked. I made it work.

now be an asshole as much as you want.

about night actions - my only mistke was that I made the recruit in night 5 not dave and i was on a vaction and I was begging my teammates to recheck rach for any clues about who she will block... they didn't even bother to respond. I mean sure , I was paranoid about she blocking dave so much cuase I saw her calling him scum and I was about to get vigged anyway.

[Frozen Angel]

This is brutally unfiar Cerba and I like to talk about it

[Frozen Angel]

and I really beleive this setup needed way more millers.

like Way way way more poeple from variant races in their not basic faction. the race checks became alignment checks and that destroyed the thing it was intended in the first place according to investigative roles.

[Frozen Angel]

And I didn't calim miller.

I calimed racial miller. which was different . I wasn't afraid of an alignment cop. I was afraid of a race check

[Frozen Angel]

what was a better claim for me then cerb?

I was basically a mod confirmed cult at that point

[Frozen Angel]

how could I do any move for survival or at least for my factions servival?

I made a claim which confused the hell out of the living players and I survived. Its a simple calculation.

and the night action is not entirely on me. we were three people on that hood and noone bothered to do anything eventhough I asked them like 5 times.

there was no other way for winning even with that recruit anyway .

[Frozen Angel]

I had limited network access and litterelly no decent electrical tool to do anything

[Frozen Angel]

I don't understand why a nos flip made my I didn't know I am a racial miller thing unreasonable?

[Frozen Angel]

that explained the only kill I could claim it was mine and it worked.

noone expect a cult faction doing night kills , and I needed a killing ability to be individual humans champion to make the rest of my claim works

[Frozen Angel]

I don't understand why a nos flip made my I didn't know I am a racial miller thing unreasonable?

Because of this:

8. Nosferatu, The Other, Killed N4.

The race you'd return was other. His race was other. Therefore as soon as you saw his flip as town, you would have realized your racial check result would make you appear to look like him, therefore you are now officially a miller and need to claim it.

I realized that (fakely) just as soon as I relized (fakely) in what situation I was and I tried to apease to people with absolute honesty (fakely) to make them believe I just relized I'm a racial miller.

not sure what are you saying cuase that was what i did?

[Frozen Angel]

I mean cerb I full claimed my racial miller and whatever I had in first post after nos death to explain to them I just relized i'm doomed and I'm going to be honest with you cuase I don't wanna survive!

and my claim wasn't designed to make me survive it was just designed to make sense and I'm sure it was making sense for that town.

[Frozen Angel]

thanks lol

that meant a lot to me!

I mean it was manufactured but I used mastian flavor to make it real , players who felt the same way as you started questioning its flavor for awhile and I even asked mastin about the possibility of my flavor in ways she could answer to hold them back! I tried to make sure I'm standing strong on what I'm claiming and I can answer any kind of question regarding that!

pedit : I had a racial miller in mind but claiming miller in first post after a guilty is suicide! I just tried to ease down toward it but I claimed it in the first post anyway (without saying the name miller) that worked better

[Frozen Angel]

Sorry you didn't win as culted Angel.

lol np mate. the game was fun anyway!

and I am considering myself an Individual human. who can say I'm not? fuck them all!

[Frozen Angel]

I mean, 2/3 of the claim was what you HAD to claim if you had been culted, since town should have been able to infer that the cult mechanic changed peoples races...just couldn't believe town was so blind.

It was it but with adding the 1/3 of that and a bunch of ATE showing myself as the most misrable person on earth for having such a bullshit role and getting such guilties on myself ; it kindda worked!

[Frozen Angel]

rb's town play was terrifying though

It was really sad sawing him culted.

[Frozen Angel]

@Tim I needed to fight back

he was pushing me nos relationship to hard.

[Frozen Angel]

Like I mean It was like he had a knowledge about this before that point so i was about to push him anyway even if I didn't knew he was scum.

but his play style really changed at that point like really obviously ... so I needed to mention that as well.

if rb wouldn't claim miller that day I would try to change the wagon on another direction out of two of us and that might have saved us a day I guess

[Frozen Angel]

Cult still having a recruit after we lynched the leader is not something I realized tbh.

cuase we didn't recruit anyone after that point. the only time we tried it got blocked.

and the kill was not that obvious. there was a mistrious kill night 2 and I was using it for my claim. it was our kill.

[Frozen Angel]

who did we tried to kill night 4 , I can't recall

[Frozen Angel]

yeah , I was just slipping at some point and solving that for town ^ and rach told me "you didnt got culted becuase you weren't a human!" so I backed off immidiatly and never talked about it

even after dave flip!

[Frozen Angel]

who did we tried to kill night 4 , I can't recall

oh heartless

there was a missing kill that night , I thought we cross killed.

[Frozen Angel]

I mean killed one target with someone. ooohhh yeah, I tried to kill rach that night with almost 50 so we both killed poor toog.

hartless was wuldens shot I guess ... I'm too lazy to check.

[Frozen Angel]

The only hints I was expecting people to take from the flavor was the expectation that the characters Nicholas Schroder and Alexis Galenos were both good guys. (Making a claim of them to be innocent child lite.) I was also expecting that people would think maybe, just maybe, instead of actually being in the game, they could instead exist as scum fakeclaims. (I also wanted people to think that maybe they could be evil, but I wasn't convinced they'd actually think that.)

Anything else, correct or incorrect, was not something I anticipated. I expected some flavor speculation to happen, of course. But you have to keep in mind: all scum had the option to request FAKE FLAVOR. Not just a fake role PM. Fake flavor for every night. Nobody, not even once, over the course of the game, asked me to do this for them, in spite of them having that power, because they didn't think it necessary. (That, or they forgot.) The speculation was, therefore, inherently going to be flawed.

ehem

as mod you must think about the effect of all your actions. Correct or Incorrect , your flavor POE'ed 2 scums in this game

[Frozen Angel]

You might've done better if you realized that the fakeclaim I actually DID make for you had a name.
You missed it and improvised your own.
But I gave you the name Nick. Galenos.
As in, a secret child of Nicholas Schroder, and Alexis Galenos. (The concept of naming the boy after the father is nothing new, after all.)
If you had kept 100% to the flavor of that role, then both Expedience and RachMarie would have recognized that the role was clearly making references to both of them, references which you could NOT be making up, and therefore references that MUST have come from the mod, giving validity to your claim. You would have been one happy family!
...Except you were trying to murder them all. Small detail.

I didn't saw that name ... Like yeah .....

[Frozen Angel]

After skimming all your recent posts all my previous points remains.

You made an impossible town to break. With a massclaim and a full scan with just your invastigatives in 2 nights , the game would have been over

I think you did a great job keeping all these stuff together though, this flavor was briliant but I still think 5 man masonary , 3 man uncultable bulletproof confirmed viges and all te investigaves you put down in this game were just Too much for any scum to destroy in any manner.

[Frozen Angel]

and stop telling us that the new treaty were not pure town

They were all PURE towns.

[Frozen Angel]

Vigs, statistically speaking, are more likely to hit town than scum.

Not in a setup with 1/3 confirmed towns.

[Frozen Angel]

Staticly speaking Bacde was a bacup vig for this town that could screw us all up after even passing the two shinigami vigs who couldn't get touched Not a serial killer. There was no Third parties in game.

When you make such Joined wins you must assume what will happen if The factions really bound together like the way they did.

It doesn't matter that you assumed undeads will be treated like third parties or whatever. It didn't happen in this game and I bet it won't in 9/10 of times. So you muct count them all Town. with that the game was really really crooked in balance view.

[Frozen Angel]

and stop telling us that the new treaty were not pure town

They were all PURE towns.

except there was a condition in which we became scum

though really, it seems unlikely the condition would have been fulfilled.

thats what I'm saying.

Mastian using that as a defense for telling us the town was broken in half and you guys were scum is not something I can accept at all. You all were Pure towns based on the way your role pm's were written and who everything turned out.

You might have been turned to scum AFTER rejecting the treaty which was AFTER everyother scum's death so to other scums you were all pure towns

[Frozen Angel]

@Mastin even if you make DA perfect game I will bitch about its balance even If I was town and it was in my favor. sorry but I believe in perfection and I believe after you posted the endgame story its not about you. Its about whoever is reading the game to get ideas for their futere games. or maybe its about you who wanna make your next game with similar mechanics. So I believe to myself that I'm doing the right job being aggressive about how setup worked out ; I love talking about what happened in the game , and searching to see if it was player's fault ; setup fault or just pure bad luck.

forexamlple obviously :

Me getting culted and watched night one was pure bad luck
Putting down vanillas in a setup which will limit cult access to so many players is setup's fualt
Me rying to cult rach instead of dave was a player based fualt

all these info together helps determining the balance ratio of the game ; It is way harder when your designing the game (basically impossible to do the same amount of analyzing back then)

Still! While I didn't get that, "Oh, yeah, this was definitely THE game of the year!" reaction I was hoping for, while I didn't nail down things perfectly, while I did make a fair share of mistakes, I think that I did succeed overall: this was a momentous game. It was massive. It was grand. It was an epic project, which I shared with the world, from start to finish, taking you along for the ride. And I hope the rollercoaster was worth it in the end.

You did a great job. literally breath taking flavor , grand massive game with so many players. I was really impressed by the amount of time and effort you put down on vote counts (which I think it wasn't necessary but still you did great)

But It wasn't the perfect job your speaking about cause I'm sure with the spoilered setup I saw Town will win every single runs of this game cuase it was heavily town sided. It doesn't mean it wasn't fun which is always the main objective. I'm really proud that I finished playing mafia in a game like this.

It was memorable , great and awesome and I'm thanking you very much for the time and effort you put into this for random strangers (or maybe people you know - at least I am a random stranger to you ) and I really really wanna Hug you girl for messaging me for this awesome game (although it seems like you messaged half of the mafia scum back then but anyway! )

[Frozen Angel]

Thanks for the page top mafia scum

I fucking love you

[Frozen Angel]

and tbh this game lacked a shiro

[Frozen Angel]

BAD idea.
Really bad idea.

Not because the millers wouldn't be believed.

Because they WOULD be.
All of them.

Like, all of them, all of them. If claimed on D1.

Know something I am notorious for?

This is like literally the first game of mine WITHOUT millers. (Well, unless you count the undead risen slaves and individual nosferatu showing up as an ambiguous threat to Expedience.) I know my own mod meta, and while I do try to subvert it, I also am quite aware of assumptions players are likely to make.

and I forgot to comment on this

I really don't care about modding meta. if balance is acheived modding meta mean nothing. You made all the race checker alignment checkers without messing with faction's names and putting unique races inside of them. by racial miller I mean something hich is weird like putting an other in individual humans and not naming the group individual "Humans" in the first place. Your a bit hypocritical in this topic. Your falvor was Really the game setup But your insisting that It wasn't. I'm just saying you really shouldn't made unique races factions. that was a really bad Idea. So so so bad that doubled town investigation power (or maybe tripled it)

[Frozen Angel]

I think the most confusing win condition was the undead one, town had it easy.

It was confusing but it was obviously Town. Like even if you were thinking or guessing you might be scum you would use your powers to help town to eleminate other scums you knew about till you get more clues about the treaty itself (which was after the rest of scums elemination).

that being said setup wise , Player view vise , flavor wise and etc ... you were all town till the point the rest of scums died then you might have "With a really really tiny chance" to turn into scums but Till that point and to all other scums you were just town like everyone else.

[Frozen Angel]

I told it.

not on day 1 though , no one thinks of a massclaim on day 1 but after isolationist flip it was a pretty obvious move no town suggested or went after. wuldens and cult were basically screwed at that point because there was enough flavor clues for who is town and who is not to make the real setup obvious at that point.

Mastian maid me ask nos to making me a fake claim , she was like other race check is a semi guilty on you and I was like what the hell , if town knew about this the game was solved at that point. all scums regradless of the flavor must have a decent fake claim that can answer all aspects beside being scum. If there is no such thing in a game that game will be breakable with massclaim and this game was

[Frozen Angel]

there was no way for a town loss even if he was one of the vigs rach - this is statically proven

I am saying this needed absoloutly no skill for winning this game and I can prove that

[Frozen Angel]

and thats not an offense to town players. nor to mod. I'm not sure why you all are trying to find alternatives for that.

when we're talking about setup balance we must get other variables like player skills static. this is a scientific view.