Gistou (Over!)

[Almost50]

I dunno why I won, but yay?

Well, you're cool, so Nero eventually decided he wanted you to win too.

Seriously though, you've got Rach to thank for that.

[Almost50]

Kinda funny now that i think about it:

I think that Tim's scum, and BBMolla's town.

Also my 4th post in undead thread:

I have a feeling Cakez and Ceph have access to some sort of PT.

You did well, but outing your entire PT was a bad move. Still, catching SS was kind of a compensation for it, so you can say you still deserved to win at the end.

[Almost50]

BBM was lying though.

Which bring back the eternal debate between "town have no reason to lie" vs "town are prone to tell lies as much as scum are, bc this is a game of LIES AND DECEIT". The only difference is what lies are you telling and to what purpose.

[Nero Cain]

IDK, was still worried that a new treaty might fuck over humans so I figured why the hell not ratify and just go from there.

[Cerberus v666]

Town had 4.5 kills,the undead had a non-consecutive vig that they only used N1.

[Frozen Angel]

oh yeah sorry for missclaculting

4.5 kills vs 2.5 (we needed to cult instead of killing)

[Almost50]

NERO YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE KILLED MY GF GRRRRRR

Actually that was a good vig, and a well-timed one too. Emotions aside, it would have been MUCH harder for us to ratify the treaty with Expedience alive.

So, it was either Expedience lives and we all risk a town loss, or he dies and we all win, including him!

[Cerberus v666]

To go deeper, town had 4.5 kills (one which was unstoppable, the lynch, and 3 of which would only work on 78% of town, confirming those it failed on as town, with false clears on 3/9 scum ), and a total of 5 BP vests. Scum had 2.5 kills(2 potential strong), and one full vest, and another conditional full vest.

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, honestly, town, all of you, I don't care about the balance concerns. Like I said in the dead thread, it's possible that all the power was needed given how close town actually was to losing.

With that said.

Town(all factions) deserved to lose for being stupid and not figuring out that nosferatu killed *someone* on N2, and for letting someone who claimed miller on DAY FIVE live.
Isolationists deserved to lose because SS took the hard path in trying to prevent his lynch, and for WT performing the double whammy of not recruiting on N3 while also going completely inactive and apathetic on D4 when there was a guilty they could have lynched, and for RAM/Ceph not staying out of the spotlight enough in known multiball/not leaving directions for teammates in the event of death(in my defense I planned on staying BP most of the game and saving the redirection for an outed vig at a critical time, but that just means the mistake was not figuring out a different way of playing out that day/night so we wouldn't have had to kill luna immediately and I could have stayed BP)
Wulden deserved to lose because Tim hung himself with miller claim or whatever, and for not killing rach over wake, and because I can't remember anything anyone in the faction did other than Mathblade(see why the cult deserved to lose).
Cult deserved to lose because lurksacks shouldn't win, so Nosferatu REALLY deserved to lose, and they screwed up their defense against the guilty that existed on them from D3, AND for recruiting/killing the wrong people, AND for ASOIAF's ridiculous "this claim is clearly designed to counteract any potential guilties against my slot" claim

This is why I come off as an asshole in post games though.

As far as I can tell, everyone fucked up, and I tell you all how you fucked up, and everyone tries to act like they didn't fuck up and they actually *deserved* to win, when that couldn't be further from the truth.

[Almost50]

bc I didn't want to kill the other Champions either.

I swore Mastin said in the dead thread you thought you needed to kill me.


also sorry Titus

Not exactly. What I thought was we needed to kill scum (and at the time I considered non-human = scum), and IF THE GAME DIDN'T END by then, then maybe the champions needed to settle it between themselves as they would be considered "threats" to eachother, but not to other humans.

However, I didn't even look your way even after you were outed. I thought IF one of us had to go for the game to end in a town win I'd be ok being that one.

[Cerberus v666]

So, mmm, who was suspicious of me on D1?

Expedience was. Who else was? Does anyone remember?

If you were suspicious of me on D1, please share why. I'd like to determine if your suspicion was because of something unique to scum play, or if it was because of the things I do as town that always make people suspicious of me.

[Cerberus v666]

Me=RAM slot as a whole, but if something was said by Bins rather than me that caused the issues, please differentiate so we can both try to become better. ^^

[Frozen Angel]

Cult deserved to lose because lurksacks shouldn't win, so Nosferatu REALLY deserved to lose, and they screwed up their defense against the guilty that existed on them from D3, AND for recruiting/killing the wrong people, AND for ASOIAF's ridiculous "this claim is clearly designed to counteract any potential guilties against my slot" claim

I was playing the game solo since day 1. its really brutal to talk about me like that , yes my teammates all deserved to loose for lurking.

My claim was briliant though , I survived with it 5 days after being confirmed scum. I didn't choose the fucking guilty on me. I knew I would get race checked so I claimed a compltly possible lacked role in setup miller champion of individual humans and it worked. I made it work.

now be an asshole as much as you want.

about night actions - my only mistke was that I made the recruit in night 5 not dave and i was on a vaction and I was begging my teammates to recheck rach for any clues about who she will block... they didn't even bother to respond. I mean sure , I was paranoid about she blocking dave so much cuase I saw her calling him scum and I was about to get vigged anyway.

[Frozen Angel]

This is brutally unfiar Cerba and I like to talk about it

[Frozen Angel]

and I really beleive this setup needed way more millers.

like Way way way more poeple from variant races in their not basic faction. the race checks became alignment checks and that destroyed the thing it was intended in the first place according to investigative roles.

[Frozen Angel]

And I didn't calim miller.

I calimed racial miller. which was different . I wasn't afraid of an alignment cop. I was afraid of a race check

[Cerberus v666]

Up until you made that claim/performed those night actions, I would have said you're the only slot in the game who deserved to win. And yes, the night action mistake(s) were small, but still the wrong choices made with the knowledge you had.

After that, not so much. ^^

You survived 5 days after being confirmed scum not because of your claim. That was purely town being idiots. I'm actually not sure on the timeline for your claim/when nosferatu died, because if you claimed it at any time other than IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THEIR FLIP, it shouldn't have been believed. Prior to that point sure, you could claim you didn't know you were a racial miller, but after that you had no such defense to use.

For the record, for those of you who might not realize, THIS is what town missed:

the people parsing all the flood of information we got all died last night lmao.

Word. Now everyone is mainly having trouble solidly putting things together to understand what actually occurred.

I mean, I'm not being too harsh on them, right? I do have insider information etc, but I THINK from the information they have they should be able to put all the pieces together.'

Bacde watched Luna
Toogeloo BG'd luna.
Bacde saw Nosferatu and himself visit Luna, and did not see Toogeloo.
Luna died.
Nosferatu claims he visited Stormblade with his role.
Stormblade died.

Luna dying through protection means: Toogeloo is lying scum, was redirected, or was roleblocked. The first two are unlikely because luna was a high priority watcher target, and toogeloo was a low priority redirect target.
Bacde not seeing Toogeloo means: Toogeloo is lying scum, was redirected, was roleblocked, or Bacde himself was redirected. We already established the first two as unlikely, so Toogeloo was roleblocked, or Bacde was redirected.

No reason to assume two redirectors. Most likely that one of Bacde or Nosferatu was redirected.

If Bacde was redirected, and Nosferatu was not, he saw Nosferatu alone visit a corpse. Nosferatu guilty.
If Nosferatu was redirected, and Bacde was not, he saw Nosferatu alone visit a corpse. Nosferatu guilty.

These hold true regardless of whether Toogeloo was roleblocked or not, but not seeing toogeloo makes it more likely that Bacde was redirected than Nosferatu.

That's where they should be at, right? I'm not using any information they're not privy to. They're just not seeing it.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and while the stuff i quoted above was going on, EXPEDIENCE HAD A FUCKING RESULT THAT WASN'T A CLEAR FROM NOSFERATU.

Town simultaneously saw him visit a corpse, AND knew he might be a threat, and they STILL didn't lynch him.

[Frozen Angel]

what was a better claim for me then cerb?

I was basically a mod confirmed cult at that point

[Frozen Angel]

how could I do any move for survival or at least for my factions servival?

I made a claim which confused the hell out of the living players and I survived. Its a simple calculation.

and the night action is not entirely on me. we were three people on that hood and noone bothered to do anything eventhough I asked them like 5 times.

there was no other way for winning even with that recruit anyway .

[Frozen Angel]

I had limited network access and litterelly no decent electrical tool to do anything

[ActionDan]

What if -on N1- NR visited Titus (and they did), and I decided to pay NR a visit myself, and then some scum faction decided to call my bluff and shoot me?? Do you think the town would have still had any realistic chance to win if all 3 Champs got killed on N1??

actually 2 of you would live. but neither would have a vest

[Frozen Angel]

I don't understand why a nos flip made my I didn't know I am a racial miller thing unreasonable?

[Cerberus v666]

what was a better claim for me then cerb?

I was basically a mod confirmed cult at that point

Good question.

I don't really think one was possible, but it was *most likely* the timing of the claim that was the misplay, more than the fact of it. The PGOizer thing was nonsense fluff that you shouldn't have put in to protect Nosferatu, probably, since they were basically dead already.

I mean, you really were basically fucked and had a limit on your life that you didn't have any control over. You *had* to claim the racial miller+uncultable things, so I suppose I can't hold those against you, even though both of those things SHOULD have got you lynched on principle...the first because of the timing, and the second because you were a non-human whose alignment could change, and you didn't share that VITAL information with the town so they'd change how they looked at the game.

The PGOizer thing was just bad imo.

[ActionDan]

Wulden deserved to lose because Tim hung himself with miller claim or whatever, and for not killing rach over wake

Rb claimed miller. Definite mistake that. I can guarantee it would not have mattered. Same difference with shooting Rach vs Wake. I maintain that not being a mistake at the time anyway.