STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[farside22]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

Yeah the player encouraging this thought process is more likely scum in my book.

Puts rr on permanent scum list.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

The Crystal Gems as a whole are the flip gate-keepers so these two lines really make not one lick of sense coming back to back ...

[Reasonably Rational]

@Mastina, Your reads have not changed for days. You are absolutely refusing to listen and you're now days behind in analysis.

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

TWIE is basically letting you defend the fuck out of him now. You're not even pretending there's a case on Snarky that doesn't suppose TWIE is town. He made up out of full cloth this mystical blocker.

Snarky is town.

Titus. We know the flips are being controlled by the gems.

...

It's not fucking debatable.

-Cerb

Pedit: Titus, lol. That is the clearest case of of confbias I've ever seen. I tell you why the scenario you suggested is wrong, and you decide that the new facts of the situation also suppprt your conclusion.

[mastin2]

You on the other hand, REFUSE to consider the CHANCE you might be wrong on Farside because it doesn't fit how you scumhunt.

I refuse to consider farside as scum because of all the MYRIAD of reasons against that, yes.

You're violating Occam's Razor to ignore a guilty and lynch your scumread instead because it fits your view.

I'm not saying let TWIE live indefinitely. I'm saying let TWIE live through today and today alone. And that's a view made, based off of...a combination of mechanical reasons (there's the possibility TWIE can use his vig) and play-based reasons: I'm dead serious I was aiming to get a hard innocent on TWIE. What that means is, he was someone I was townreading. Literally the ONLY reason I have to call him scum is the guilty result, and yet, by giving him one day to prove his ability or die, I am setting a definitive term.

I meanwhile, have come up with a plan to settle Farside that works if we lynch scum today and tomorrow.

Yeah, the problem being you said "if", and TWIE won't give us that.

I'm flat-out refusing to believe my own guilty result. I will let him die tomorrow. I won't oppose his lynch. I might even join it. I will do so fully thinking I'm lynching a false positive. Ideally, he wouldn't be lynched until two or three days later, since I'd prefer to lynch my other scumreads above him. But I won't stop you.

I will resist today.

[Reasonably Rational]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

Yeah the player encouraging this thought process is more likely scum in my book.

Puts rr on permanent scum list.

Farside: the only way you're scum is if scum utilized the beach city event votes to allow you to pretend to pit 2 votes on NC. The only way that could happen is if DGB were in communication with the scum team. Titus is suggesting that TWIE is the only possible link, and I'm reminding her that he is not, so there is no clear connection between your alignment and TWIES.

What part of that makes you upset?

-Cerb

[Titus]

You on the other hand, REFUSE to consider the CHANCE you might be wrong on Farside because it doesn't fit how you scumhunt.

I refuse to consider farside as scum because of all the MYRIAD of reasons against that, yes.

You're violating Occam's Razor to ignore a guilty and lynch your scumread instead because it fits your view.

I'm not saying let TWIE live indefinitely. I'm saying let TWIE live through today and today alone. And that's a view made, based off of...a combination of mechanical reasons (there's the possibility TWIE can use his vig) and play-based reasons: I'm dead serious I was aiming to get a hard innocent on TWIE. What that means is, he was someone I was townreading. Literally the ONLY reason I have to call him scum is the guilty result, and yet, by giving him one day to prove his ability or die, I am setting a definitive term.

I meanwhile, have come up with a plan to settle Farside that works if we lynch scum today and tomorrow.

Yeah, the problem being you said "if", and TWIE won't give us that.

I'm flat-out refusing to believe my own guilty result. I will let him die tomorrow. I won't oppose his lynch. I might even join it. I will do so fully thinking I'm lynching a false positive. Ideally, he wouldn't be lynched until two or three days later, since I'd prefer to lynch my other scumreads above him. But I won't stop you.

I will resist today.

No. You get a guilty, you lynch it. That is Occam's Razor.
Skybird giving you power suggests scum wanted you IC over me.
Snarky is suggested town based off the event.
TWIE clears Farside if I am wrong.
TWIE flip should unify town.
But you refuse to consider it because scum have framed your narrative.

[Titus]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

Yeah the player encouraging this thought process is more likely scum in my book.

Puts rr on permanent scum list.

Farside: the only way you're scum is if scum utilized the beach city event votes to allow you to pretend to pit 2 votes on NC. The only way that could happen is if DGB were in communication with the scum team. Titus is suggesting that TWIE is the only possible link, and I'm reminding her that he is not, so there is no clear connection between your alignment and TWIES.

What part of that makes you upset?

-Cerb

Correct. That's why I have structured this plan using your gift.

[Reasonably Rational]

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

The Crystal Gems as a whole are the flip gate-keepers so these two lines really make not one lick of sense coming back to back ...

Titus seems to be resisting the idea that the flips are controlled by you guys, because it's anti-town aa fuck for you to be deliberately forcing a slot you should believe is town to use a power she has when you can make that unnecessary (a power which, btw, challenges the gems ability to control the stress level through deciding when flips occur...wonder why they'd want THAT to get wasted?).

-Cerb

[farside22]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

Yeah the player encouraging this thought process is more likely scum in my book.

Puts rr on permanent scum list.

Farside: the only way you're scum is if scum utilized the beach city event votes to allow you to pretend to pit 2 votes on NC. The only way that could happen is if DGB were in communication with the scum team. Titus is suggesting that TWIE is the only possible link, and I'm reminding her that he is not, so there is no clear connection between your alignment and TWIES.

What part of that makes you upset?

-Cerb

Your encouraging a tunnel of Titus and ignoring many factors.

Thanks for playing.

Oh and all this whole still not saying who you think was scum that didn't vote in the beachpaloza.

[Titus]

Lynch scum today and tomorrow? If the fundamental position your maintaining is wrong, then we wouldn't be lynching scum today and tomorrrow, so the whole plan sorta falls apart.

Oh, A50: the thing I thought I knew about shiro? Totally wrong, so yeah.
-Cerb

If we fail and TWIE is town, Farside is clear.
If we succeed, turn to day 5.

If we lynch scum again, I should absolutely have knowledge of Farside's alignment.

Farside is not clear without us figuring out where DGB could have allied on D2. Things still aren't locked up there, TWIE is *not* the only possible link from the chart I saw.

I mean, I get your position, we've discussed this, but there ARE scenarios in existence that make this work badly for us.

-Cerb

Pedit: do you believe fuzzy is scum? If not, then scum COULD NOT have voted as a collective because THEY DIDNT HAVE PT ACCESS. Only if fuzzy is scum/told scum about planning to use this event could they have organized in advance.

@fuzzy: did you tell anyone in the game at all about this event before you used it?

Yeah the player encouraging this thought process is more likely scum in my book.

Puts rr on permanent scum list.

Farside: the only way you're scum is if scum utilized the beach city event votes to allow you to pretend to pit 2 votes on NC. The only way that could happen is if DGB were in communication with the scum team. Titus is suggesting that TWIE is the only possible link, and I'm reminding her that he is not, so there is no clear connection between your alignment and TWIES.

What part of that makes you upset?

-Cerb

Your encouraging a tunnel of Titus and ignoring many factors.

Thanks for playing.

Oh and all this whole still not saying who you think was scum that didn't vote in the beachpaloza.

If TWIE is town, you'd be clear. So it's a win win but you vote Snarky the minute Mastina predictably says that she doesn't want to lynch your buddy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Titus seems to be resisting the idea that the flips are controlled by you guys, because it's anti-town aa fuck for you to be deliberately forcing a slot you should believe is town to use a power she has when you can make that unnecessary (a power which, btw, challenges the gems ability to control the stress level through deciding when flips occur...wonder why they'd want THAT to get wasted?).

Not Chara keeps saying her scum-read on your is growing ...

Do you think she is scum? Yes or no?

Because if you don't you have demonstrated knowledge of at least 1 of the reasons keeping her bubbled might be a good idea. And the fact that not immediately flipping her has given me info that solidifies my grapes Town read is another plus.

I'll patiently wait for whatever answer you might produce but I'll be clear - I don't give a rats ass if you like how the Gems are using the ability to stall immediate death for certain players.

[farside22]

Here is were the hypothetically shit is getting missed.
When did dgb plan with twie to be in alliance together?

[mastin2]

@Mastina, Your reads have not changed for days.

Again.
Pot.
Kettle.
Black.

My reads

have

changed, off of new info I have.
Specifically, there are four players (plus Magna) I am mechanically clearing: two are gems (plus Magna), two are not.
My scumread on Shadow_step increased significantly.
My scumreads on SS and kraska have remained the same, sure.
But I also have been working on increasing my other reads: TWIE was one read, and there are other players I am townreading off of play and not role who I have had reads grow stronger on. (But, it's best for me to not reveal who these people are, because by doing so, I am by proxy revealing who I am townreading off of mechanics.) I deliberately avoided doing much analysis on TWIE since I figured I was going to get an innocent and just be able to write him off, but you think I'm not weighing his alignment?

Have you read my words at all?

I'm going back and forth on him with every fucking post I make. Pay attention, and you'll note that one moment I'm calling him confscum and the next moment I'm calling him the most obvtown player to ever obvtown and that's because, surprise!

My read is still fluctuating

. I'm still trying to pin him down.

But your scumread on farside has been there the whole damn game. Nobody, and I mean, NOBODY, can say they've held a scumread on a player for as long as you have on farside. Me? I wasn't scumreading kraskaesque until, what, midway through D2? SnarkySnowman? Wasn't that D3? I wasn't scumreading them at all on D1, I can tell you that much!

So whose reads, exactly, haven't changed?

Mine sure have!

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

Yume explained it to me, and I'm not sure how much I should tell you, because this is something I think Yume trusted with me from the very start and was being entirely truthful about. Cliffnotes version: the flip delay started in Yume's hands. It's not a fucking scum ability.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

When I said traitor, I didn't mean role. I meant, mole. Double-agent. Groupscum with a fakeclaim within the group. Whatever you want to call it.

You're not even pretending there's a case on Snarky that doesn't suppose TWIE is town.

Actually, the case on SnarkySnowman is entirely independent from TWIE.
It's just that their interactions do not suggest scumbuddies. I also don't see it as possible both are town because that would mean one of my mechanical (or far less likely, play) reads was wrong.

He made up out of full cloth this mystical blocker.

No, he didn't. SnarkySnowman's ability is something that SnarkySnowman himself will claim as true. He's already implied as much without explicitly stating it.

[Titus]

Here is were the hypothetically shit is getting missed.
When did dgb plan with twie to be in alliance together?

DGB forced it.

[farside22]

Here is were the hypothetically shit is getting missed.
When did dgb plan with twie to be in alliance together?

DGB forced it.

And how does that = Scum together?

[Reasonably Rational]

They're very unlikely to be scum, because math.

Even if they were conftown, I would still tell you it's best to not waste powers of townreads when we don't have to.

How does anyone think the gems are actually looking out for towns best interests at this point, with the repeated instances of anti-town behavior by their members?

-Cerb

Oh, and farside, my reads were safely placed in A50s hands yesterday, and are in Titus and Shiro today. I have no reason to answer your question(though to be honest, until your last post I had no idea what question you were referring to).

[Titus]

Titus seems to be resisting the idea that the flips are controlled by you guys, because it's anti-town aa fuck for you to be deliberately forcing a slot you should believe is town to use a power she has when you can make that unnecessary (a power which, btw, challenges the gems ability to control the stress level through deciding when flips occur...wonder why they'd want THAT to get wasted?).

Not Chara keeps saying her scum-read on your is growing ...

Do you think she is scum? Yes or no?

Because if you don't you have demonstrated knowledge of at least 1 of the reasons keeping her bubbled might be a good idea. And the fact that not immediately flipping her has given me info that solidifies my grapes Town read is another plus.

I'll patiently wait for whatever answer you might produce but I'll be clear - I don't give a rats ass if you like how the Gems are using the ability to stall immediate death for certain players.

@Mastina, Your reads have not changed for days.

Again.
Pot.
Kettle.
Black.

My reads

have

changed, off of new info I have.
Specifically, there are four players (plus Magna) I am mechanically clearing: two are gems (plus Magna), two are not.
My scumread on Shadow_step increased significantly.
My scumreads on SS and kraska have remained the same, sure.
But I also have been working on increasing my other reads: TWIE was one read, and there are other players I am townreading off of play and not role who I have had reads grow stronger on. (But, it's best for me to not reveal who these people are, because by doing so, I am by proxy revealing who I am townreading off of mechanics.) I deliberately avoided doing much analysis on TWIE since I figured I was going to get an innocent and just be able to write him off, but you think I'm not weighing his alignment?

Have you read my words at all?

I'm going back and forth on him with every fucking post I make. Pay attention, and you'll note that one moment I'm calling him confscum and the next moment I'm calling him the most obvtown player to ever obvtown and that's because, surprise!

My read is still fluctuating

. I'm still trying to pin him down.

But your scumread on farside has been there the whole damn game. Nobody, and I mean, NOBODY, can say they've held a scumread on a player for as long as you have on farside. Me? I wasn't scumreading kraskaesque until, what, midway through D2? SnarkySnowman? Wasn't that D3? I wasn't scumreading them at all on D1, I can tell you that much!

So whose reads, exactly, haven't changed?

Mine sure have!

The gatekeeper on the flips is almost certainly scum, debatable if they are a gem.

Yume explained it to me, and I'm not sure how much I should tell you, because this is something I think Yume trusted with me from the very start and was being entirely truthful about. Cliffnotes version: the flip delay started in Yume's hands. It's not a fucking scum ability.

We already lynched the traitor, so looking for a traitor there is dumb.

When I said traitor, I didn't mean role. I meant, mole. Double-agent. Groupscum with a fakeclaim within the group. Whatever you want to call it.

You're not even pretending there's a case on Snarky that doesn't suppose TWIE is town.

Actually, the case on SnarkySnowman is entirely independent from TWIE.
It's just that their interactions do not suggest scumbuddies. I also don't see it as possible both are town because that would mean one of my mechanical (or far less likely, play) reads was wrong.

He made up out of full cloth this mystical blocker.

No, he didn't. SnarkySnowman's ability is something that SnarkySnowman himself will claim as true. He's already implied as much without explicitly stating it.

Oh please. You should be seeing that I have been largely right in my posts you ridiculed on my reads. I went through and looked, given the Skybird flip, if and how Farside could be scum.

Your own internal circling doesn't count as progression given you systemically exclude the mere possibility that I am right.

Furthermore, you won't engage in the possibility of proving me wrong.

It reeks more of someone who feels they are right and excludes evidence to the contrary.

[Titus]

Here is were the hypothetically shit is getting missed.
When did dgb plan with twie to be in alliance together?

DGB forced it.

And how does that = Scum together?

She wanted to talk to the scumteam to plan.

[farside22]

Because currently the desire to lynch twie is based on the hypothetically dgb got info from twie as scum.

Again all hypothetically and the only one agreeing with this idea is rr.

Also and this is final.
I refuse with every fiber of my being to follow this 3 fucking game day tunnel that is down right getting ridiculous.
I've almost reached the point were I almost want to support my own lynch to be done with this day after fucking day bs attitude that only is far is scum and everyone else is wrong.

[Titus]

Simple thing is Farside, there's zero reason for town you not to vote TWIE.

Either a) we remove a false guilty and clear you as town or b) we lynch scum.

Town you should never be voting Snarky.

[mastin2]

You get a guilty, you lynch it. That is Occam's Razor.

And have I so much as ONCE said, we don't lynch him at all?

I've been very consistently saying rather the opposite, acknowledging he does need to die.

But what I've also been saying is rather consistently, I am not going to lynch him today.

Skybird giving you power suggests scum wanted you IC over me.

No, it doesn't. Again: if scum wanted me to have the power, then they would have done more than put two (appearing as one) votes on me.

Tell me.
Say kraskaesque had flipped scum.

How would you feel if I made the argument you are making right now?

You, in my shoes, would say no different.

Snarky is suggested town based off the event.

Again, not true. RR already stated why: scum's topic was, by Varsoon's explicit word, shut down. They could not communicate.

TWIE clears Farside if I am wrong. TWIE flip should unify town.

And I have not once denied either of these! I have supported them. I have also said to wait one fucking day for them.

But you refuse to consider it because scum have framed your narrative.

I refuse to consider it because I have a very damn reasonable request of waiting one fucking day to do it, which is not the end of world. ESPECIALLY not when TWIE will be flipping town.

[Titus]

Because currently the desire to lynch twie is based on the hypothetically dgb got info from twie as scum.

Again all hypothetically and the only one agreeing with this idea is rr.

Also and this is final.
I refuse with every fiber of my being to follow this 3 fucking game day tunnel that is down right getting ridiculous.
I've almost reached the point were I almost want to support my own lynch to be done with this day after fucking day bs attitude that only is far is scum and everyone else is wrong.

No. The desire to lynch TWIE is from Mastina's guilty result.

Creature offered to lynch TWIE before the guilty, and I specifically said that's not how things work.

[Titus]

You get a guilty, you lynch it. That is Occam's Razor.

And have I so much as ONCE said, we don't lynch him at all?

I've been very consistently saying rather the opposite, acknowledging he does need to die.

But what I've also been saying is rather consistently, I am not going to lynch him today.

Skybird giving you power suggests scum wanted you IC over me.

No, it doesn't. Again: if scum wanted me to have the power, then they would have done more than put two (appearing as one) votes on me.

Tell me.
Say kraskaesque had flipped scum.

How would you feel if I made the argument you are making right now?

You, in my shoes, would say no different.

Snarky is suggested town based off the event.

Again, not true. RR already stated why: scum's topic was, by Varsoon's explicit word, shut down. They could not communicate.

TWIE clears Farside if I am wrong. TWIE flip should unify town.

And I have not once denied either of these! I have supported them. I have also said to wait one fucking day for them.

But you refuse to consider it because scum have framed your narrative.

I refuse to consider it because I have a very damn reasonable request of waiting one fucking day to do it, which is not the end of world. ESPECIALLY not when TWIE will be flipping town.

Your request is patently unreasonable.

I have been waiting and waiting and waiting. We have been bickering for days. To insist on more do you can lynch my townreads is infuriating and insulting and says you don't value me, what your role said or anything beyond your damn ego.

I laid out a plan to clear or confirm Farside in 2 days and you're pulling your ears.

You're ignoring a fucking guilty to throw a fit.

[Titus]

You get a guilty, you lynch it. That is Occam's Razor.

And have I so much as ONCE said, we don't lynch him at all?

I've been very consistently saying rather the opposite, acknowledging he does need to die.

But what I've also been saying is rather consistently, I am not going to lynch him today.

Skybird giving you power suggests scum wanted you IC over me.

No, it doesn't. Again: if scum wanted me to have the power, then they would have done more than put two (appearing as one) votes on me.

Tell me.
Say kraskaesque had flipped scum.

How would you feel if I made the argument you are making right now?

You, in my shoes, would say no different.

Snarky is suggested town based off the event.

Again, not true. RR already stated why: scum's topic was, by Varsoon's explicit word, shut down. They could not communicate.

TWIE clears Farside if I am wrong. TWIE flip should unify town.

And I have not once denied either of these! I have supported them. I have also said to wait one fucking day for them.

But you refuse to consider it because scum have framed your narrative.

I refuse to consider it because I have a very damn reasonable request of waiting one fucking day to do it, which is not the end of world. ESPECIALLY not when TWIE will be flipping town.

Oh and if Kraska flipped scum, I would be treating Farside as town because I would suppose scum were bribing me.

[farside22]

Here is were the hypothetically shit is getting missed.
When did dgb plan with twie to be in alliance together?

DGB forced it.

And how does that = Scum together?

She wanted to talk to the scumteam to plan.

So even though it states in dgb role pm she doesn't know the scum team your basing this on....?????
Right, nothing.