In post 9385, grapes wrote:@RR - I'm confused why you're pushing the gems as a second scumteam when we've seen a gem flip benign. Clue a guy in?
What benign gem flip have you seen? Xkfyu killed a member of the scum team, which doesn't make them benign, it makes them want to kill people and means he's not aligned with the scum team, which means nothing without a win condition that's known.
The primary problems with the gems are the constant deceit/anti-town behavior throughout the game, and their sheer power. Yume claimed mastin was conftown, but kept mastin in the dark about things. The gems didn't flip NC early in the day when asked to by Titus and myself, thus putting us into a night phase at -4 stress. The win conditions given by Yume to Titus and myself differed slightly, and the difference they concealed from Drixx and myself wasn't one which would have been worth being concerned about...so why aren't the the claims identical? Why are their win conditions concealed? For the record, the claim Yume gave us was a vague reference to needing "what we said", and said they also needed a human alive, and the win con she gave titus was needing a human and a gem alive. Nothing suspicious about needing a member of your faction alive to win, so why didn't yume claim that to us? It sounds like a detail added because it was weird to NOT need to have a member alive. How much sense, balance wise, does it make for town to have a 4 man masonry that could gain at least a fifth member, all of whose members are EXTREMELY strong roles? The strongest roles in mafia games are frequently hobbled by their swinginess, yet here....they were given knowledge that 20% of the game could be safely ignored by them, making them EVEN STRONGER.
Wholly benign gems simply don't make sense balance wise, in spite of the sense they make flavor wise.
-Cerb
Pedit: fuzzy scum is pretty dang improbable imo.
