STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Almost50]

@Shiro:

MoI said I'm better off with grapes on E6, so you'd have to wait for E7.

P-edit:

That's correct. I'm not sure what I think of it. On the one hand; they already knew eachother's alliance effects. On the other hand, they needed to know what effect others have, and they also "might" have wanted to not be directly linked together.

[grapes]

I think the teeth to the case on creature is that he claimed to action despite being allied with snarky.

Question is why does he claim an action he couldn't actually do as scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think the teeth to the case on creature is that he claimed to action despite being allied with snarky.

Question is why does he claim an action he couldn't actually do as scum?

The first part is inaccurate - please read 9788 for more analysis of Creature as scum.

The answer to your question is pretty clear - he made a mistake. You can't say scum never screw up.

Why do you think Creature has contradicted himself on multiple topics today if he was actually being honest about his actions and reasons for taking them?

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@MOI
Short answer is that my vote is a policy lynch which I am not happy about since I am almost always against policy lynches. I dislike that I am feel the need to policy lynch Far. Unless a good scum option comes up I dont see why the town should not lynch Far.

I want to ally with Mastin. Iknow she is town and I trust her

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's correct. I'm not sure what I think of it. On the one hand; they already knew eachother's alliance effects. On the other hand, they needed to know what effect others have, and they also "might" have wanted to not be directly linked together.

My issue is that it is clearly sub-optimal for scum to specifically choose to ally with each other (except 100% for the WIFOM) given the rules specifically state the Mafia have Daychat. My expectation is that scum would want to ally with anyone else for information gathering since they can already talk with each other.

I mean … I’m not going to predicate reads solely based on who allied Day 1 but it is another element towards “Not Partners” for Shiro vis-a-vie Skybird.

--

Short answer is that my vote is a policy lynch which I am not happy about since I am almost always against policy lynches. I dislike that I am feel the need to policy lynch Far. Unless a good scum option comes up I dont see why the town should not lynch Far.

I want to ally with Mastin. Iknow she is town and I trust her

1. Why would you choose to policy lynch this far into the game unless you are scum wanting to play into the “Oh god Farside can turn on us” card?
2. Why is mastin being Town and trustworthy important at all in the Ally process given you don’t get to talk with him?

[TheFuzzylogic99]

MOI
Far could hurt both town or scum. A policy lynch is not a indictments of town or scum action and is a nuetral action. If you think I am scum than vote for me

huh.... why wouldnt I be able to talk to Mastin. if thats the case however I will have to choose someone else. As my decison making is not good I need good feedback on what I should do.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Far could hurt both town or scum. A policy lynch is not a indictments of town or scum action and is a nuetral action. If you think I am scum than vote for me

huh.... why wouldnt I be able to talk to Mastin. if thats the case however I will have to choose someone else. As my decison making is not good I need good feedback on what I should do.

Far being able to hurt either side is a generic platitude - even Town players can help scum (inadvertently) via their play. You still can't justify why you would actively want to lynch a slot you don't think is Mafia over slots you do think can be.

Speaking of which - who is scum?

To the best of my knowledge Mastin has said several times that he doesn't get a PT with his Alliance members as Centipeedle can't talk. If I'm wrong then feel free to disregard.

[kraska77]

@varsoon replace hydra with me. lycan hasnt checked in for a long time now

[kraska77]

fuzzy wanna ally?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Can anyone point me to a list of codifed Alliance claims if one has been made? Thanks!

[grapes]

I just re-iso'd creature. The front end gave me some doubt (less town than my memory served me). But that's probably a combination of creature being a person that you really can't read by iso-ing and moreso -- read him by what he's doing in the moment that he's around and posting. A lot of his processes towards the back end feel off the cuff and resemble real thought. The frustration where applicable seems genuine, though this part is probably more null.

I don't think he looks all that bad with regards to cakes interactions BESIDES not being around at all during the time cakes' lynch was actually going through before Day 1 deadline.

I don't believe his process on his cakes read is completely unbelievable.

Because who in their right mind thought cakes wasn't getting slammed through? Might just be null cause creature wasn't around. He had every excuse to hop back onto the wagon for towncred. Cakes was getting pushed for pretty good reasons.

Why wouldn't he bus if he could?


His skybird vote day 1 might be distancing? *goes back to read progression*

Okay so this is interesting actually. Votes skybird d1 (sheeping killthestory magenta shitpost) -- later on d2 skybird is found just below titus on a townlist.

This seems scummy actually strictly because of the rabble about skybird being town by role. My working theory on that is that one scum bought into it heavily and the rest of the team probably just tiptoed around it.

Later on further into day 2 fire and mcmenno stir up some hype about skybird after I call her out on having fake reads. He votes her.

Then moves on to DGB but still hangs onto the A50/RR/Skybird dichotomy.

Question to anyone who might know; why did we have scum within that pool at that time?

Then doesn't talk about skybird much again except for a potential alliance.

Conclusion here is that; there's better lynches. But he's not quite as town as I recalled.

[grapes]

VOTE: Kraska

[kraska77]

I can't wait to be free of this game

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Kraska

If you want to provide even the smallest hint of a case to go with this then be my guest.

Naked voting is not helping ....

[grapes]

I'd rather have this conversation after you've actually looked at her iso.

[grapes]

Like if you think creature looks bad from progression with reads/interaction on flipped scum then I'd argue kraska is 10x worse.

[Shiro]

MoI said I'm better off with grapes on E6, so you'd have to wait for E7

I mean it isn't like I have been waiting till e2 or something.

Whatever.

[grapes]

I don't know I feel like I'd much rather lynch the ones who've ceased all gamesolving.

shiro/kraska/twie

Like why make it more difficult than it needs to be.

[Creature]

Though, I'd rather lynch who's Beach-a-paloooza non-topwagoner.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Kraska ISO read through –

No flipped scum in reads at 501.

Interaction with Cakez at 668 is Null. Cakez throws Kraska a softball question and kraska answers with logic that I don’t see as obviously scummy.

Cakez vote at 3123 is also Null. Nothing of substance in their ISO about Cakez prior and the “Am I hammering, Don’t care” is meaningless since Cakez is scum. As is the “I’m frustrated” post at 3154.

Not thrilled with 3276 as it is a bit hypocritical – knocking the Foxbird slot for, among other things, disregarding the Cakez wagon makes little sense given Kraska more or less did that themselves. Do like them calling out Foxbird for having lurker reads as scum (Snarky and Xk, both now known as not Mafia).

Null reads Skybird at 4655.

Frankly I like the Lycanfire head much more than the kraska head. I’ve seen multiple posts that clearly are from Lycan that lay out a clear thought process on multiple players (unfortunately none on scum but some of the posts are Town read posts so …) that I can see as clearly coming from Town. The kraska head input on the other hand …

Says that they are “also down for Skybird” as a wagon in response to NotChara at 7499.

Has spent a significant portion of the ISO tunneling Shadow with little effect.

Tries to downplay my Skybird scum read at 8035.

The whiff on using the ability to raise Stress and possibly prevent Titus’s death makes me want to lynch this slot for 9119, specifically the smilie, on principal.

--

I’m not seeing “damning” lack of progression on reads as grapes has suggested. If anything the most damning thing is a complete lack of reads related to Cakez and Skybird. Personally the flashes of Town in the ISO from Lycan got buried under the avalanche of junk posting from kraska.

I’m not voting here over Creature or TWIE.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Like if you think creature looks bad from progression with reads/interaction on flipped scum then I'd argue kraska is 10x worse.

Your argument doesn't resonate with me then ...

Kraska's ISO can easily be Town focused on a pet read (Shadow) at the expense of focusing on others. Creature's ISO is much more likely to come from buddies IMO given the active distancing.

And presenting Creature as game-solving is a huge stretch ...

[Creature]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=ORLYScum

[grapes]

Why do I even bother arguing..

What's his scum strategy going into this? Bus cakes and then turn around based on some arbitrary reads or w/e?

BTW creature's a good scumhunter I think what's more likely that happens is he nailed him on having a shifty read progression on him (makes sense from a town pov because I and a lot of other people track others reads on myself as a means of reading people) but then we town heard on cakes a bit and creatures paranoia as town thinking that there's too much hype surrounding cakes (especially on day 1) and seeing cakes town up a smidge (and yea, not gonna act like cakes didn't make a decent post or two) makes him turn around; and go right to pushing other things.

Half your case on creature doesn't make sense because you think his reads were him just quoting a cakes post.

Yea, the kraska hydra has made some pretty walls here and there. That doesn't make them town.

[grapes]

And it's damning as all hell the timing which skybird actually starts to exist for them.

Like, there was a lot of discussion about her flavor/role and stuff.

They comment on that AT ALL.

Just... develop and out of the blue scumread once skybird starts to scum up.

[grapes]

They don't comment*