Mini 532: Yaw's Split Open Mafia: (Game over)

[SensFan]

I think the main disadvantage with the plan would be that it gives the Mafia a person who is neither of the role-people, this helping them shoot one of our main roles.

On the other hand, this method will ensure that we always have our best roles alive, with the dead roles being 'nilla and/or the less useful roles.

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Drunken Piper (2): Thanatos, SensFan
Holy (1): kabenon007
QuickBen (1): Jex
Jex (1): Drunken Piper
Zhao (1): QuickBen
SensFan (1): Zhao

Not Voting (5): Holy, Off the Mark, Korlash, Korran, Phate

With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch.

[SensFan]

Oops,

Unvote

, now that we are out of the random stage.

[kabenon007]

I'm not sure what to think about this whole exchange. While I can see the pros, that we could keep recycling our roles, we also have to realize that if the role is switched, it is highly likely that the same people will be, for example, investigated by the cop role, because the "new" cop would not know who the former cop had investigated. I think it is a good backup plan, but I do not think it should be our first and foremost plan, because of some of the risks, such as outing our roleswitcher and re-opener, and the like.

[kabenon007]

oh... and unvote... Holy, you owe me...

[kabenon007]

dammit... I hate it when I do this...

unvote...

[Phate]

kabenon, I have never, ever, everevereverever suggested that we out the switcher or the reopener.

You're not allowed to have an opinion until you go back and read the last page.

That's a good boy.

Vote: Thanatos

This

vote will stay until you either stop insisting that the plan could help scum or explain why. Since there's no reason (that I can see) that this would do anything except hurt scum, trying to convince others that it would help scum without explaining why strikes me as scummy.

[Off the Mark]

I'm here, just haven't been available over this holiday weekend. Doing some catchup reading now.

[Off the Mark]

vote: Thanatos

Phate is making sense. Your disagreement with his plans does not seem like townie reasoning to me. There is a marked difference between the way Korlash and Sensfan have disagreed and discussed the issues around the plan and how you have discussed the plan. You don't seem to have any non-BS reasons for disagreeing, basically.

FOS: kabenon

for having a non-committal opinion on the exchange. Sounds like he's waiting to see which way the wind blows - common for scum.

[Korlash]

Of course, it will never get that far because eventually one of the role manipulators will die, but look at it this way: we have the equivalent of a doctor that works on roles. So if they do shoot the former vanilla, that means we're forcing them to hit the vanillas. How much easier do you think this game would be if scum were forced to kill all the vanillas first?

Yes. Which is why the plan works. However you keep saying the plan will "Keep our roles alive' which is a lie.

Korlash and Thanatos, who apparently don't read my posts, because they bring up objections that I've just responded to in my last posts.

More unneeded attitude.. ouch... Sorry that I have to call you on your bad theories and bad conclusions all the time. I just like to point out where people lie and/or make mistakes. In your case I'm hoping they were simply mistakes...

This vote will stay until you either stop insisting that the plan could help scum or explain why. Since there's no reason (that I can see) that this would do anything except hurt scum, trying to convince others that it would help scum without explaining why strikes me as scummy.

The only way your plan helps scum is on days when we lynch a non-powered role. Then they know of a vanilla, and so their NK will obviously have better odds of hitting Switcher/opener...

I agree, your plan is good. We should sue it. But it will not be exactly what you said it will. For now we have our unpowered (Me) so lets focus on finding the scum today. We can regroup with the plan later in the day when a lynch is more imminent.

Phate is making sense. Your disagreement with his plans does not seem like townie reasoning to me. There is a marked difference between the way Korlash and Sensfan have disagreed and discussed the issues around the plan and how you have discussed the plan. You don't seem to have any non-BS reasons for disagreeing, basically.

As hard as it is to concentrate while looking at your avvy, I think sens is agreeing with the plan a bit too easy and as seen in his last post ( Post 125) he seems to still think it will work the way Phate said it will.

Overall I don;t like the sudden switch to Thanatos so fast, but only 2 votes is not that bad.

[Drunken Piper]

I am back, I am back from the holidays.
Noted that I have been prodded and I am amazed
that the mod is not paying attention.
in my sig, and my last post I did mention
that I would be gone until tomorrow.
To catch up, time I must borrow.

Will post on Monday like I said before.
Sorry I can not offer any more.

[Korlash]

*Sighs*

That was awful... sorry... You phail!... ><

[kabenon007]

I should not have used the word outed. I meant it would lower the scum's choices, as we would have some people confirmed as power roles which are not the switcher or re-opener... understand? Not sure if I explained that well or not...
@OffTheMark... you are your name... is it not possible to be on the fence about something? I see both pros and cons to the plan, and while I said I think it could work, I said it would work better as a secondary, not primary plan. Read my whole post before deciding if I am noncommital.

[Phate]

Korlash, I'm pretty sure I never said the words "keep our roles alive," but... we've been through this. We at least agree that the plan should be implemented, even if you don't appreciate the genius of it. =P So that's the important thing.

Piper, that's definitely not iambic pentameter; those are couplets.

[Korlash]

Your right. I was thinking of 007 when he said "recycling roles" the closest you have come to outright saying it is when you said "It'll be literally a town full of powerroles." Which was way back when you first came up with the idea.


For the most part, Subject dropped.

On to more scummy thing... I mean... >.> <.< More... Um... Things...

I have nothing... I could recite my favorite poem...

...The pen was shoved in my veins
And God grabbed the reins
And as if I was a mule He said,
"I'll use you as my tool
and plow the field with you.
Fulfilling empty minds' needs
While planting knowledge seeds.
No longer will it be a flourishing time
For malnourishing minds.
I want you to make intelligence a law
Because ignorance is a crime.
Now, I need you to go
And reap what you sow
While captivating minds like Edgar Allan Poe"...

Man once I get going I cannot stop... Gemineye rocks... Almost makes me want to write my own...

The sheep sat in the mud...
Wow this poem is already a dud...
The first two lines are such a bore,
it makes me want to start to snore!
Oh please tell me there is no more!
I'll give you five bucks to stop now bud!

Yeah... Man now you guys got me doing it... This should be called awful poems mafia... ><

[Phate]

That gives me an idea.. an awful idea... a terrible idea.... an EVIL idea..... an idea so brilliant that my head would explode if I even

began

to know what I was talking about.

Mafia based on post restrictions, where everyone has to post in a certain type of poem.

[Korlash]

ohh... how suck that would be... Seriously... it wouldn't suck.. it would BE suck...

we would no longer say.. "That sucks!" we would say "That [insert mafia name here]s!"

I like the your head exploding thing... you should do that... >.>

[Thanatos]

Phate and mark: Isn't that a little heavy-handed? You go from not even a serious FoS on me to a vote because of my disagreement with the plan, as soon as I relent on my debate about it, or did you not notice my last post. I'll clearify what I meant: "Logically, you're reasoning is sound and most people disagree with the plan. I believe you're sincere in your belief in your plan, but I believe it will backfire." You vote on me as soon as I do that? Weird.

I have doubts about this plan. There are 2 night kills a night, three deaths with a mislynch. Killing that many, we won't make it past night 2 before either on of the role people get offed or we have 2 or three power roles dead. Our plan will have accomplished little more than giving the scum an even better idea of who is who in this. I believe this plan does more for the scum than us, but that belief is based of a hunch as much as anything else, so I don't wish to interfere any more with it. I don't know why you're voting me, to be honest.

[Thanatos]

Actually, I just noticed something really bad. The scum get 3 kills a night, don't they? With an SK, we lose 5 people tonight if we mislynch, and they decide not to use their powers...and why wouldn't they? They're already Night communicators. They have no need to play cop or Doc. Roleblocker is a longshot tonight anyways...

If we mislynch, do we not lose half the players before D2? I want to hear from the mod on this.

[Phate]

Mafia and SK are allowed one kill per "group"

What do you mean by "Night communicators?"

I don't often bother with FoSes except in situations where they're unavoidable (I find someone suspicious but there's already a bandwagon on them and I don't want a lynch yet, I'm already voting someone that I find more suspicious, etc). Why bother with a FoS when I can just vote?

First you say it's better for scum than town. I ask how, and you ignore me. Then you mention that it could be good for scum if something goes wrong. I vote you, because it seems to me that continually repeating a statement you have no basis for is scummy, especially since that statement is aimed at my plan, which will help town.

This is the entire trade.

Scum gets: confirmed identity of one vanilla per day, chance to claim vanilla in order to get a (new) power.

Town gets: a powerrole on a vanilla every night until one of the role manipulators die. Depending on who the scum target, this functions as either protection for the existing powerroles or a recycling of powerroles.

Fixed a tag

[Korlash]

Night Communicators- They talk at night with each other...

Also Scum also gets a more likely chance of HITTING a remaining power role each night. You have to honestly add that into your plan.

As for the night kill thing. Eventually the SK will have to become "anti-Mafia" ad start aiming for them. I agree though. Tonight we will pretty much lose two townies.

Also... What if the mafia got the re-opener and/or the switcher? Wouldn't that suck...

[Holy]

Ok, on a more serious note: I think that at least one unpowered role should claim right now.

Then, if we lynch someone with a role, on N1 the role-reopener can reopen it and the role-switcher can switch the roles of the dead person and the unpowered.

But:
1. If an unpowered that claim at day 1 is a townie and not murdered at night 1, he/she (has a high possibility) would be murdered at night 2 with his/her new power.
2. If an unpowered that claim at day 1 is a scum, then mafia will secure a power that may benefit the townie and still free to kill or perform his new Role night action (not both) whichever The Mafia think when they discuss would be best.

Also, I think we should agree on a list of the most valuable roles, from least to greatest, so as to work toward the most potent distribution of roles. I'd set them like so:

Role-Switcher (the one who's able to set this all up)
Role-Reopener (without the reopener, the role-switcher's kind of useless)
Cop
Doc
Roleblocker (incidentally, since we're going to have so many night actions, the blocker shouldn't block anyone unless they're sure the person they're blocking is scum. *bad thought* Gah, I hope the scum don't have the RB, that'd fuck this whole plan to hell.)
Night Communicators

The Role-Switcher might be a mafia or sk though... and ready to mixed-up our minds X.X
I don't know, I don't really like this a -one unpowered- claim idea (I may consider at day 2, depends on the situation).

@Than - yep. Completely right. But the scum are still at a big disadvantage: at least one of them

needs

to be unpowered, or their night action is useless, cuz they have to send in a nightkill. Whereas we'll have full use of all of our roles.

No, mafia don't need at least one of them to be unpowered, a powered scum still may kill by discarding his role action.

Thanatos - The most valuable thing the town has in its favour is the powerroles. Powerroles are better for town than they are for scum. Personally, I'd rather have everyone be a powerrole than have everyone's roles be uncertain. I think a game in which all players are powerroles is good for town, especially because most of the powerroles don't benefit scum, but they do benefit town. I mean, look at the alternative: our powerroles are just lost forever? I mean barring the rolemanipulators, our most powerful roles are cop and doc. Neither do the scum ANY good.

Well...Personally, I'd rather have a scum-super-lucky-lynch at day 1 and luckily-succeed-guessing someone's role (which is a rare occasion, that's why I still can accept your eagerness about this, sigh...).
A doc role could do the scum SOMETHING good, there's an sk, remember...? (Please explain, if I'm wrong)

Speaking of which, this whole deal is even sweeter when you consider the SK. The SK is incapable of using any role, period (unless he doesn't want to kill, but I don't find that particularly likely). So any power tacked onto him is completely useless, and therefore neutral for town.

SK may do both.

This plan of yours really does not begin until tomorrow... So... Yeah... What does your plan include for today if I may ask?

It will consist entirely of

Day 1
A.) One vanilla claiming (check)
B.) When the end of the day approaches, I'll remind the role reopener to target the dead person if the dead person had a power.
C.) When the end of the day approaches, I'll remind the role switcher to target the vanilla and the dead person if the dead person had a power.

How about:
Day 1
A.) Finding and lynch the scummiest player, and luckily indeed the scum himself.
B.) Will automatically reduce a possibility scum have more power by successfully lynched one of their member.
C.) Let the role reopener to target the dead person if the dead person had a power. Etc...

What we're basically doing is making sure that everytime they kill a town powerrole, we resurrect it. Someone, Than, I think, mentioned that we're giving them too much info, I disagree. Because the people we're giving powers will have been vanilla before, so we don't lose anything. They'll either have to waste kills killing the same role again, or strike out randomly trying to get one of the role manipulators.

I guess the scum won't mind to kill the same role again if that role incidentally a cop, why take a chance let an innocents cop alive, as long as they got another townie

reduced

.

And it's necessary for the vanilla townie to claim so the roleswitcher doesn't accidentally move it onto someone with a better power. Imagine if the role-switcher accidentally switched a dead power with the reopener, for example.

The problem is, how can we be sure that whoever claim that he/she is a vanilla townie is indeed the plain innocents...

I'm keeping my eye on Holy, who has yet to put forth any effort into posting using holy scripture... disappointment...

Luls...
"then hear from heaven and act. Judge between your servants, condemning the guilty and bringing down on his own head what he has done. Declare the innocent not guilty, and so establish his innocence."
-1 Kings

[kabenon007]

Impressive Holy... but I no longer have a vote to unvote off of you... so perhaps I should put it back on? ...

[Holy]

Of course, it will never get that far because eventually one of the role manipulators will die, but look at it this way: we have the equivalent of a doctor that works on roles. So if they do shoot the former vanilla, that means we're forcing them to hit the vanillas. How much easier do you think this game would be if scum were forced to kill all the vanillas first?

Damn, after a re-read, why the hell your idea seems good enough to try... but only if the doc really pro-town that this whole plan would apply nicely.
If doc saved the unpowered claimer from day 1, and mafia target him/her then mafia failed the murder.
If mafia afraid fail the murder, the unpowered claimer from day 1 survived at least at night 1. But, again... at 2nd night there's a high probability this the first night survival will be murdered because the doc save another unpowered claimer from day 2.

O gosh, I had a headache...

[Holy]

Impressive Holy... but I no longer have a vote to unvote off of you... so perhaps I should put it back on? ...

Lol, you may accused being wishy washy if you do that