STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Randomnamechange]

Sorry for the multiple posts: Assuming everyone is good with the alliances in #11,085, I would like the propose that Fuzzy NOT shoot tonight. I have two reasons for this and I'll explain them to Random and he can confirm to the game at large that the reasons exist and are good reasons.

~Drixx

He does have reasons/ I'm just clarifying some stuff on them to confirm the logic but he def has some good points.

Is it cold where you guys are? It's really cold here. Like really really really cold. I've been having hot cocoa every night because hot cocoa is freaking awesome!

good idea, im gonna grab some tonight

So on Alliances – unless he objects I want grapes with Shadow and Shiro for reasons grapes should understand.

That makes

Almost / Fuzzy / RR
Grapes / Shadow / Shiro

Leaving mastin, myself, random and farside out. I’d lean to a farside / myself / Random Alliance leaving mastin without an ally.

mastin and grapes

– these work for you?

I also don’t see the point of actively trying to get farside a third party win at this point if she is actively not looking for it. Frankly that’s making me look at RR again with skepticism.

--

Also ... how did I end up sorting alliances? There's a reason I avoided this all game. This is a pain in the arse.

No complaining when you basically just thrust yourself into the role ..

I would rather have me or MoI in an alliance with RR, but this isn't awful.

[Reasonably Rational]

I get one point disbanding per player.
So one point for fuzzy.
If one disband with mastin_shadow and mastin is part of the alliance the odds get 2 points.
I'm short by 2 points.
Now if I successfully block an action I get 1 point.
So in short I'm short 1 point unless someone targets me then it work.

Earlier you said you get 1 point per person in the alliance, and you are a person in the alliance. I also believe you claimed to get 5 points from the joyride, which was a 5 person alliance including you...

RR, didn't you realise farside claimed her ability can't block factional kills and she earned two points (meaning she was probably targeted)?

She later clarified and said she misunderstood her role abilities and that she in fact COULD block factional kills, and she announced that she roleblocked YOU. That's why MoI asked if anyone else could explain the lack of kill, because in the absence of any other explanation, Farside handed us a guilty on YOU. I mean ... apart from the fact that you have long since been scum trolling us with your posts, why did you think you are eating rope today?

I thought you counted as part of the alliance far.

That's what she claimed earlier. And now it should be clear why I'm proposing putting her claim to the test. I think any sane person will conclude that the claim "Town ascetic reflexive roleblocker who can also targeted roleblock who also can destroy alliances who also is lynchprooof (limited shots claim, in a game where abilities refresh periodically), who can also multi-vote, who is also bulletproof but can pursue two different alternate win conditions (remember she claimed that she could expend "Kevin Points" to "race" some other player, which she said she would

never

elaborate upon), at least one of which changes her alignment to third party and gives her a self-aligned win that doesn't interfere with the rest of the game (except that it adjusts the M/LYLO situation)" is just plain

bullshit

. (Psst.... alignment change is BASTARD).

The problem is that all of those abilities have been demonstrated, except for the whole use 20 points and get a solo win part, and the "race" thing.

So now ask yourself ... do you want to bet the game that Farside is really that bullshit claim, or do you want to put it to the test before it bites us in the ass? If you actually want to bet the game, please go look at how SaGa Frontier ended (this is aimed at everyone).

I also don’t see the point of actively trying to get farside a third party win at this point if she is actively not looking for it. Frankly that’s making me look at RR again with skepticism.

--

Also ... how did I end up sorting alliances? There's a reason I avoided this all game. This is a pain in the arse.

No complaining when you basically just thrust yourself into the role ..

You don't see the point? She is caught in at least one outright lie at this point. The previously unclaimed BP ... do you really buy that she "misunderstood"? According to the established way she earns points, in her own words, she should get points equal to alliance size, including herself. That means she can be tested and we can know for sure tomorrow at essentially day start (since Varsoon allows for action queueing) whether or not she is mostly harmless (exits the game with a personal win regardless of the overall outcome) or caught in a web of lies.

If anyone wants to lay down any side bets, I now agree with Cerberus and suspect it is the latter.

I mean ... just read her ISO at this point. It sort of speaks for itself. I was going to dump a bunch of quotes in but either you care enough or you don't. Insert the whole <Lead a horse to water> wise saying here.

Nice use of the verb Thrust though.

~Drixx

P-Edit: Check alliance PT Random. I think you'll agree with the reasoning for the alliances I proposed.

[mastin2]

Almost / Fuzzy / RR
Grapes / Shadow / Shiro
Leaving mastin, myself, random and farside out. I’d lean to a farside / myself / Random Alliance leaving mastin without an ally.

mastin and grapes

– these work for you?

Fine by me.
VOTE: Creature.

[Creature]

Not scum self-hammering to end discussion earlier.

[Creature]

Though, we have 6 days left and I don't know what to say.

[grapes]

Fuzzy I'm still interested in the order on your scumreads w/ reasons don't dodge me again.

Creature, why do you think shadow's scum?

[grapes]

MoI

You and random won't die, ever.

Scum will waste a turn if they kill you since they can endgame both of you.

Nails on a chalkboard.

[grapes]

Honestly given what you have posted in our PT I find this an odd response.

Yea I keep changing my mind. Creature's only really a good lynch in my mind because essentially the entire game thinks he's scum but calling out the thread on how forced the lynch actually is isn't odd it's the fact of the matter. I mean let's be fair people are trying to push it like there's a guilty on him when farside isn't even voting creature to my memory.

Also considering I was in the midst of explaining to you why shadows deathtunnel on him is fake; if shadow flips scum do you believe that would be a bus?

[grapes]

VOTE: Shadow

Magna explain why you sticking me in an alliance with 2 scumfucks.

[grapes]

Almost / Fuzzy / RR
Grapes / Shadow / Shiro
Leaving mastin, myself, random and farside out. I’d lean to a farside / myself / Random Alliance leaving mastin without an ally.

mastin and grapes

– these work for you?

Fine by me.
VOTE: Creature.

Keep forgetting to ask; why are you townreading shadow?

[grapes]

Not really down for letting farside win for a couple reasons;
I'd rather win.
If someone let me win I wouldn't feel like I won.
She's pretty much helping town at this point.

[grapes]

Got it....... what if I miss tonight
I don't want to get lynched tomorrow bc I was pressured into making a shot that was poor. I only get 1 shot per season.
I will take the shot if yall really want but I rather wait till I get a better chance to hit my target

If we lynch creature and he flips town, shoot shadow and use capslock super bold tags.
If we lynch shadow and he flips scum, shoot shiro with capslock super bold tags.

Let me know if you agree disagree with this.

[grapes]

Creature says this and not long after there is a McMenno wagon out of nowhere

Scum usually wins Large Theme because there are often a bunch of lynchbaits and scum likes to kill players who put a lot of effort into the game leaving who doesn't want to do anything to LyLo.

Farside starts the wagon

Good, we can start with McMenno, he has a history of lurking a lot in scum games.

Sure

Vote: McMenno

Come on scum fire.

Followed by a vote by Fb on McMenno

Then farside immediately switches back to SC

Just reread McMenno after obi comment I'd go with Shiro in a heartbeat as a lurk sack.

Oh well.

Back to watching the fading wagon on sir cakez.

Vote: sir cakez

I don't see any reason for scum! farside to move off from a potentially growing McMenno wagon to bus her buddy SC.

Creature immediately jumping on the mcmenno wagon

VOTE: McMenno

SC is next on the wagon like a fat kid on the cake.
This sure as hell doesn't look like a bus. Plus reading early interactions(allying phase) between SC and McMenno doesn't look like s v s at all.

Oh neat a McMenno wagon
I've been interested in this wagon for forever, and Obi soft-defending him makes me feel even better about it

VOTE: McMenno

also grapes you don't need to explain your NC scumread anymore fyi

^ for Cakez

Okay, you're town.

VOTE: Obi-Wannabe

This is terrible, what in that read list made you think Sc is town?

I mostly just have a list of players I am peeved at but I think TheWayItEnds stands out as good scumread material.

Vote: TheWayItEnds

Votes lurker slot,

gets pressured by people for reasoning, says this

I am voting TWIE because currently he hits the profile for likely lurker scum. Not my strongest scumread as someone seems to have inferred from my vote, but the one I want to vote at this juncture in the game.

___

Actually you are totally right about Xkfyu. randommidget has yet to post during D1 and TWIE's posts are pretty shit in general.

Unvote
Vote: Xkfyu

(TWIE's posts are pretty shit in general but let me vote Xk for no reason)

____

Unvote
Vote: McMenno

McMenno vs SirCakez, I prefer McMenno.
Mastin, why do you think McMenno is town? I am really interested.

When I have more time, I will iso Not Chara. They have posted an awful lot so it's hard for me to get a lock; I want to delve deep into their mind and play to get the understanding I want.

I prefer McMenno, why?
Don't wanna lynch my buddy cakes.

Literally within the first 10 posts shadow makes.
What's shadow's reads today? 5000 posts later?
Fuzzy and creature are designated mislynches.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna explain why you sticking me in an alliance with 2 scumfucks.

Go to our PT - I've given the reason there.

And go there anyway there's an ISO I want you to look at.

UNVOTE: Creature

Not ready for the day to end yet.

[Reasonably Rational]

There's a time to keep your cards hidden and a time to show them. Our intention was to keep our proverbial cards hidden, giving Random the info and plan (which we have done). Recent posts make it sort of meaningless to hide the plan though, so here goes:

There exists a scenario in which tomorrow could be LYLO or if the scum have an event left or some extra kill available, we could simply face game over. That's what we've been talking to Random about and trying to organize things in the game to prevent. I'll lay out what our plan is, which Random evaluated the totality of and the logic of and agreed we probably were right (in terms of worst case and how to avoid it):

1.) Farside is an unreliable narrator. She has been caught in one lie, at least, and all we actually know about her is her demonstrated abilities and her claims. According to her posts earlier in the game and when she answered my direct question, she gets 1 point for each person in an alliance she disbands. If she were excluded from that, she would have said so when originally answering my question today, instead of trying to shoe horn that in when I pointed out that we could get her to 20 points and test her claim. I think that speaks for itself. -- So the first part of the plan was to force Farside to prove her personal win at 20 points claim as quickly as possible. This can be accomplished by having her disband today's alliance and a posited 3 person finale alliance, according to her answer before she realized that I was going to push for her to prove the claim.

2.) Point one has some impact on Creature; however, I'm not sure why on earth Farside would LIE about who she blocked from killing her, so unless someone can provide a motive there, it's probably a legit guilty.

3.) I've spent a good deal of time going through a couple of ISOs today. One of them is Shadow_Step. I got Cerb to do some digging through it as well on his phone, and we both came to the same conclusion. Out of the pool of suspects, he's the one we think is most likely to flip scum after Creature.

4.) There has been some question about Fuzzy and people want to see him demonstrate his vig. Our plan ensures that nothing can stop his vig shot as long as we successfully ally. Given that our plan involves giving him a loaded gun that can't be stopped, we also planned to give him enough of an infodump and analysis of the situation that he would agree to leash to a consensus decision of whom to shoot with Mastin, MoI and Random being the ones to decide (Conftown, Crystal Gems ... should be obvious). We suggested Shadow already to Random to pass on to MoI tonight; however, he's been brought up now as a possible lynch or vig shot and so it doesn't make sense to keep that hidden any longer.


In short, we want to eliminate as many possible threats as possible expending the least possible resources. We believe that the fact that Farside immediately contradicted herself once presented with the plan to take her claimed personal win and exit the game basically speaks for itself. If anyone remains unconvinced, we already put together a plan to test her claim and to also test Fuzzy's claim in such a way that there is no out if the vig shot doesn't materialize.

I'm not really good at swaying people like Titus or Mastin, so I just ask that you please consider following the plan. I'm pretty sure that Creature or shadow lynched, Farside probably outed as a liar and lynched tomorrow (when we can ensure she cannot escape it) and a posited honest!fuzzy shooting Shadow/Creature is going to result in 2 scum flips and a 3P flip and hopefully game over, we win. There exists some reasons to posit an additional scum, which we discussed with Random and which he can relay to you tonight MoI.

~Drixx

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@grapes

the top names are town the bottom are scum. The scum has no order.....just me thinking out loud


what if Creature flips scum
or
for some odd reason shadow flip town

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@ grapes....
duh..... I am always a designated mislynch when I am town

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Fuzzy

– please confirm you are not shooting tonight per RR’s plan.

So I’m going to be submitting farside and Random tonight as Alliance options unless grapes gets back to be about disagreeing with my PT reasons for allying him with Shiro and Shadow.

--

He does have reasons/ I'm just clarifying some stuff on them to confirm the logic but he def has some good points.

Please make sure you dump EVERYTHING into the PT tonight as soon as possible so I can mull it over.

--

She later clarified and said she misunderstood her role abilities and that she in fact COULD block factional kills, and she announced that she roleblocked YOU. That's why MoI asked if anyone else could explain the lack of kill, because in the absence of any other explanation, Farside handed us a guilty on YOU. I mean ... apart from the fact that you have long since been scum trolling us with your posts, why did you think you are eating rope today?

I’d like to get some clarification on this. My understanding is that farside is claiming her blocking ability cannot block the scum factional kill but her Ascetic ability can.

@farside

– please positively confirm my understanding is correct or give me the specifics that I am lacking.

You don't see the point? She is caught in at least one outright lie at this point. The previously unclaimed BP ... do you really buy that she "misunderstood"? According to the established way she earns points, in her own words, she should get points equal to alliance size, including herself. That means she can be tested and we can know for sure tomorrow at essentially day start (since Varsoon allows for action queueing) whether or not she is mostly harmless (exits the game with a personal win regardless of the overall outcome) or caught in a web of lies.

Oh I don’t disagree with you on this. I do want to go through her ISO and specifically track what can be tracked on her claims myself.

My big issue is that lynching her means we are forgoing lynching Mafia. Regardless of how botched her claim is the one element that I can rely on 100% is her ability to massively boost her vote total. That was proven with the Snarky Snowman lynch. And as I’ve said there is no path to me for her abilities to be in the game as a Mafia or possible-to-ally with Mafia role after all the other vote manipulation powers Mafia members (Skybird and DGB) had.

--

Yea I keep changing my mind. Creature's only really a good lynch in my mind because essentially the entire game thinks he's scum but calling out the thread on how forced the lynch actually is isn't odd it's the fact of the matter. I mean let's be fair people are trying to push it like there's a guilty on him when farside isn't even voting creature to my memory.

No let’s be fair about that – after what I understand to be farside’s explanation that part of the push on Creature has been abandoned. I could probably quote my many posts about how Creature makes sense as a Cakez and Skybird partner. About how his claimed actions don’t make sense from many, many different standpoints.

[Creature]

Damn, RR, you still haven't payed attention.

[Creature]

Unknowingly my ability when targeted blocks everything including nk by scum.
I had 13 points and today I have 15 points.
I know my creature block was successful.

For the record this is effectively a quasi-guilty on Creature due to the lack of scum Nightkill.

@Everyone

- please confirm in thread whether you have any reason why the scum Nightkill would not have occured. Unless someone else has a reason Creature WILL be the lynch today.

Shadow_Step - Claim indicates he should have none but need confirmation.
Almost50 - ???
Shiro - ???
Farside22 - Blocked Creature
Reasonably Rational (Cerberus v666 + Drixx) - ???
grapes - ???
mastin2 - ???
MagnaofIllusion - Has no reason
TheFuzzylogic99- ???
Creature - Unless counter-claims farside's result has no reason.
randomidget - Has no reason

Just an FYI.
My rb doesn't stop factional kills.
Anything that targets me gets blocked.
I know someone targeted me last night do to the fact I got an additional point today.

[farside22]

I thought you counted as part of the alliance far.

I get one point disbanding per player.
So one point for fuzzy.
If one disband with mastin_shadow and mastin is part of the alliance the odds get 2 points.
I'm short by 2 points.
Now if I successfully block an action I get 1 point.
So in short I'm short 1 point unless someone targets me then it work.

Earlier you said you get 1 point per person in the alliance, and you are a person in the alliance. I also believe you claimed to get 5 points from the joyride, which was a 5 person alliance including you...

RR, didn't you realise farside claimed her ability can't block factional kills and she earned two points (meaning she was probably targeted)?

She later clarified and said she misunderstood her role abilities and that she in fact COULD block factional kills, and she announced that she roleblocked YOU. That's why MoI asked if anyone else could explain the lack of kill, because in the absence of any other explanation, Farside handed us a guilty on YOU. I mean ... apart from the fact that you have long since been scum trolling us with your posts, why did you think you are eating rope today?

I thought you counted as part of the alliance far.

That's what she claimed earlier. And now it should be clear why I'm proposing putting her claim to the test. I think any sane person will conclude that the claim "Town ascetic reflexive roleblocker who can also targeted roleblock who also can destroy alliances who also is lynchprooof (limited shots claim, in a game where abilities refresh periodically), who can also multi-vote, who is also bulletproof but can pursue two different alternate win conditions (remember she claimed that she could expend "Kevin Points" to "race" some other player, which she said she would

never

elaborate upon), at least one of which changes her alignment to third party and gives her a self-aligned win that doesn't interfere with the rest of the game (except that it adjusts the M/LYLO situation)" is just plain

bullshit

. (Psst.... alignment change is BASTARD).

The problem is that all of those abilities have been demonstrated, except for the whole use 20 points and get a solo win part, and the "race" thing.

So now ask yourself ... do you want to bet the game that Farside is really that bullshit claim, or do you want to put it to the test before it bites us in the ass? If you actually want to bet the game, please go look at how SaGa Frontier ended (this is aimed at everyone).

I also don’t see the point of actively trying to get farside a third party win at this point if she is actively not looking for it. Frankly that’s making me look at RR again with skepticism.

--

Also ... how did I end up sorting alliances? There's a reason I avoided this all game. This is a pain in the arse.

No complaining when you basically just thrust yourself into the role ..

You don't see the point? She is caught in at least one outright lie at this point. The previously unclaimed BP ... do you really buy that she "misunderstood"? According to the established way she earns points, in her own words, she should get points equal to alliance size, including herself. That means she can be tested and we can know for sure tomorrow at essentially day start (since Varsoon allows for action queueing) whether or not she is mostly harmless (exits the game with a personal win regardless of the overall outcome) or caught in a web of lies.

If anyone wants to lay down any side bets, I now agree with Cerberus and suspect it is the latter.

I mean ... just read her ISO at this point. It sort of speaks for itself. I was going to dump a bunch of quotes in but either you care enough or you don't. Insert the whole <Lead a horse to water> wise saying here.

Nice use of the verb Thrust though.

~Drixx

P-Edit: Check alliance PT Random. I think you'll agree with the reasoning for the alliances I proposed.

Per person does not include me.
If I said it included me before I don't remember saying it.

[farside22]

Got it....... what if I miss tonight
I don't want to get lynched tomorrow bc I was pressured into making a shot that was poor. I only get 1 shot per season.
I will take the shot if yall really want but I rather wait till I get a better chance to hit my target

If we lynch creature and he flips town, shoot shadow and use capslock super bold tags.
If we lynch shadow and he flips scum, shoot shiro with capslock super bold tags.

Let me know if you agree disagree with this.

Flips don't seem to occur until the night ends.

[Randomnamechange]

Just want to confirm everything that RR has said I agree with btw now that we've clarified some info.

[Reasonably Rational]

To be exact, we believe it would be best if you didn't shoot tonight Fuzzy, BUT if you do shoot tonight, the ONLY person you should consider shooting is S_S, as he's the most likely scum flip in the scenario I'm concerned about, and thus shooting him hedges our bets as it were.

Also, what farside said seems to be correct, we shouldn't assume any flips will occur before day start tomorrow based on prior events.

@Farside: you never, to my recollection , explicitly stated that it included you, BUT I'm fairly certain( as in I would check your iso to be absolutely certain but it's fucking long and I'm computerless) you claimed to have gained 5 points from disbanding the joyride, which was a 5 person alliance INCLUDING you.

@MoI: My concern with farside is the possibility of a 3p win con that does not coexist with that of town. Removal of farside BEFORE the last scum is gone is probably safest, based on my own experience with such roles in Varsoon games. I understand that it's not an actual groupscum death, but I'm quite sure she counts as a "threat", and is the one we know the least about.

That's why we wanted to get her to her purported "win con" before truth on her part costs us a member of the town at a critical time, and before her victory, if she was lying, would be guaranteed because scum could still shoot her.

-Cerb

[Shiro]

@Titus: she said she gets points to power up her vote. Yesterday it was worth 6 or something.

You failed an action on her.

It could easily be worth +11 now.

Basically no way for us to know what her "range" is now.

Why wouldn't she shoot you if scum titus?


And about the finale: Drixx and I haven't come to terms, and fire hasn't agreed yet. I want fb/random for sorting and to resolve whatever fb is thinking about us, and he wants you+whoever else for game solving stuff.

-Cerb

Only one person has targetted me.

I think the confusion comes from here, where Titus said your vote was worth 6 votes, you claimed you took 1 point per person in the alliance and 1 point from roleblocking(where you said only one person targeted you)

Although

I mean shit if I wanted to really dodge this lynch all I have to do is vote dgb 7 times and call it a day.
I would rather get my points tbh.

You also claimed 7 votes here, which means that you had at least 6 points before being lynched to prove you are unlynchable.